Pin Firing

hucklebuck

Go Native wrote: »

Ah right, shin problems to be expected so a lot of the time with those younger stores as they grow. Just part and parcel of it.

The missus told me we are lucky he is not in England as pin firing is illegal there.

Go Native wrote: »

It's a catch 22 because the bigger they are the more issues they will have, but have more scope for improvement, whereas the smaller they are the less issues they have and will come to hand quicker, but have less scope for improvement.

He travels well enough so hopefully he packs on the muscle, I would like him to go from the front if runs at less than 3 miles next year and see if he can kill them from the front.

Go Native wrote: »

Best of luck anyway. Schooling won't be a problem anyway with de Bromhead looking after him.

Cheers, Henry is excellent at schooling alright. I heard in 23 races Sizing has never been out of the top three and Too Scoops is the first one of his I remember putting down in quite a while.

sirdes

hucklebuck wrote: »

He is ok thanks, he has been turned out until next year. He came out of the last two races with sore shins so the plan is to pin fire him.

Yeah thanks, he is a beautiful horse but still has to fill in to his frame, hopefully the grass and pin firing does the trick. He was very keen at Listowel for most of the race and he had a good look around and slowed into every hurdle, he is still very very green and might need a couple more races to knock that out of him.

I saw him pop three hurdles on his own the day after he started schooling and the first one was sketchy but he shaped lovely over the next two. He then did a canter around the barn with three others and when Henry told the lads to stop Pierlow was at the back and as soon as the jockey gave him his head Pierlow went to take off.

He looks every bit a 3 miler but we might win the Supreme Novices in 2014, Champion Hurdle and Champion Chase in 2015 en route to 3 consecutive Gold Cups.

hope u ment to say that he is getting blistered and not pin fired. if hes getting pin fired, then thats bad news.

Bangor Billy

Look up pin firing on Wikipedia. It is a barbaric form of treatment that, thankfully, is banned this side of the water.

Go Native

naughto wrote: »

`what is pin firing?
a few of us tried to buy in to a horse or a leg each a few yrs back but people kept pulling out so we scraped the idea.
the syndicate is a good option for me havent done it yet but am thiking about it.
iam not expecting any thing from it if i do but just to get a start on being a 0.00000000000000001 pit part ofa horse as i plan to own up to 10:pac::pac::pac:

You basically create an intentional injury to kid the immune response to over react to the initial problem of sore shins. Sounds a lot worse than it is as they are asleep during it.

Usually it's done after a horse is given rest to recover from an injury only for the injury to re occur. This means the horses normal immune response isn't enough to resolve the issue, hence pin firing to kid the immune system that it needs to do something different.

Go Native

Bangor Billy wrote: »

Look up pin firing on Wikipedia. It is a barbaric form of treatment that, thankfully, is banned this side of the water.

It used to be barbaric, but there are various forms of it and these days it's fairly routine.

Also do yourself a favour and don't look up Wikipedia for anything.....

sirdes

Go Native wrote: »

You basically create an intentional injury to kid the immune response to over react to the initial problem of sore shins. Sounds a lot worse than it is as they are asleep during it.

Usually it's done after a horse is given rest to recover from an injury only for the injury to re occur. This means the horses normal immune response isn't enough to resolve the issue, hence pin firing to kid the immune system that it needs to do something different.

pin firing is normally done to the tendons more than the shins. not sure if its still banned in the uk but it should be banned everywhere

Go Native

sirdes wrote: »

pin firing is normally done to the tendons more than the shins. not sure if its still banned in the uk but it should be banned everywhere

I'd disagree. It's more beneficial to the horse than long term steroid use.

sirdes

when a horse is broke down neither pin firing or steroids will do him much good. when a horse has sore shins its a sign of immaturity and time is the best healer.

Go Native

sirdes wrote: »

when a horse is broke down neither pin firing or steroids will do him much good. when a horse has sore shins its a sign of immaturity and time is the best healer.

I'd agree with you first time around, but if the problem reoccurs then to me personally rest will not resolve it.

Was it a once off or did the sore shins re occur hucklebuck?

Go Native

Huntley wrote: »

Nice to see a new poster who actually knows what they are talking about.

I'd seriously question the motives of resorting to a technique on an animal with a handful of runs who is still developing. The animal needs rest if it has a problem with its shins, not some outdated, unproven procedure.



Quite the charleton I see. Please continue to misinform the outsiders like myself though.

And when rest has failed and the injury reoccurs yet again, what do you suggest? More rest?

Unproven procedure, really?

Huntley

Go Native wrote: »

And when rest has failed and the injury reoccurs yet again, what do you suggest? More rest?

If continued rest fails then the animal more than likely isn't sound enough to race. Most vets will tell you the very same.

Go Native wrote: »

Unproven procedure, really?

Really. I'm surprised a man of your stature involved in the industry isn't aware of this.

Go Native

Huntley wrote: »

If continued rest fails then the animal more than likely isn't sound enough to race. Most vets will tell you the very same.



Really. I'm surprised a man of your stature involved in the industry isn't aware of this.

I disagree. I know plenty of horses, both young and old who have been pin and freeze fired and have won and continue to win races. Based on your evaluation these horse would of never won races because you would of deemed them not sound enough to race. I don't think you understand the process involved?

Huntley

I just want to give final response in respect of your comments Go Native.

Go Native wrote: »

I disagree. I know plenty of horses, both young and old who have been pin and freeze fired and have won and continue to win races.

There have been Grand National winners that have undergone the same procedure. That does nothing to dispel the notion that it is unproven and ineffective.

Go Native wrote: »

Based on your evaluation these horse would of never won races because you would of deemed them not sound enough to race.

No, I never gave any indication of this whatsoever. If you want to argue or dispel a point I have made please give an accurate account of what I posted.

I'm certain that rest would have been a sufficient technique to enable these animals to get back on the racetrack. Studies have been conducted to support this view, it may be worthwhile to examine these and educate yourself on the topic.

If you want to supply concrete evidence that the firing was the major component in the recovery of these animals then please do so. You won't be able though.

Go Native wrote: »

I don't think you understand the process involved?

It is quite evident that any misunderstanding or lack of knowledge is on your part.

premierstone

This pin firing that you speak of, anychance we can try it out on say Huntley??

I knew there would be a downside to the return of the NH season :rolleyes:

Huntley

premierstone wrote: »

This pin firing that you speak of, anychance we can try it out on say Huntley??

I knew there would be a downside to the return of the NH season :rolleyes:

That is the second comment today directed at myself that has no relevance to the topic at hand. You are under no obligation to engage or acknowledge my posts. It may be worthwhile pursuing this option in respecting that the majority of people have no interest in seeing such off topic tripe, even discounting for the poor sense of humour on your part.

premierstone

Huntley wrote: »

That is the second comment today directed at myself that has no relevance to the topic at hand. You are under no obligation to engage or acknowledge my posts. It may be worthwhile pursuing this option in respecting that the majority of people have no interest in seeing such off topic tripe, even discounting for the poor sense of humour on your part.

Well done, your counting has improved immeasurably over the summer months

I don't see it as an obligation Huntley, but a pleasure to be able to interact with such a knowledgeable soul as yourself!

I wasn't aware you were in a position to speak on behalf of the 'majority of people', thanks for the heads up champ

mountai

Is this the same Gentleman, who stated in a most knowledgible tone, that Solwhit was , and I quote , "A wreck of a horse" before Cheltenham last year......LOL!!!!

UrbanSea

Lads if ye don't want to see Huntley's or anyone's posts please put them on ignore as opposed to derailing a thread

hucklebuck

Huntley wrote: »

I'm certain that rest would have been a sufficient technique to enable these animals to get back on the racetrack. Studies have been conducted to support this view, it may be worthwhile to examine these and educate yourself on the topic.

I dont know how you can be so certain, if you are saying rest would be sufficient there is no way of disproving your certainty given the horses were pin fired.

I suffer shin splints and rested a couple of times for 6 months and next time I ran I got shin splints. I ended up getting orthotics and I have no issues with shin splints now, surely there must be something in pin firing.

Out of interest do you have the names of the studies.

Go Native

I don't mean to be rude Huntley, but you are talking non sense...

Huntley

Go Native wrote: »

I don't mean to be rude Huntley, but you are talking non sense...

Why don't you disprove what I am saying then? Please highlight this 'nonsense' and expand on it. I don't expect you to do that, similar to last night when I exposed more of your inaccuracies.

Responses such as the above do nothing to uphold your masquerade that you know what you are talking about. You quite evidently don't.

hucklebuck I will send you a link to some scientific literature over the weekend when I get a chance.

sirdes

hucklebuck wrote: »

I dont know how you can be so certain, if you are saying rest would be sufficient there is no way of disproving your certainty given the horses were pin fired.

I suffer shin splints and rested a couple of times for 6 months and next time I ran I got shin splints. I ended up getting orthotics and I have no issues with shin splints now, surely there must be something in pin firing.

Out of interest do you have the names of the studies.

Most vets will tell u that pin firing is a total waste of time and just delays the healing process. A horse that has been pin fired will automatically be turned out in a field for 12 to 18 months but most of the pro pin fire people will tell u that it's the pin firing and not the rest that fixed the problem.

Go Native

sirdes wrote: »

Most vets will tell u that pin firing is a total waste of time and just delays the healing process. A horse that has been pin fired will automatically be turned out in a field for 12 to 18 months but most of the pro pin fire people will tell u that it's the pin firing and not the rest that fixed the problem.

Not sure of any trainer in their right mind who would pin fire a horse with the intention of giving them a year to a year and a half off in a field. It would defeat the purpose as the injury would heal itself in that time. Absolutely ridiculous.

sirdes

Go Native wrote: »

Not sure of any trainer in their right mind who would pin fire a horse with the intention of giving them a year to a year and a half off in a field. It would defeat the purpose as the injury would heal itself in that time. Absolutely ridiculous.

this is some statement from someone who thinks sticking red hot needles into a horses tendon will fix the problem. 12 months + is the standard practice. did u not say earlier that time alone would not help the problem?

hucklebuck

Cheers Huntley, just want to find out more about it.

I am new to this pin firing but is the idea not to sear the tendon so scar tissue forms and this is denser/ stronger than the original part of the tendon?

Bangor Billy

That is a reasonable summary of the procedure. The problem with it, though, is that this procedure is being performed on a basically healthy animal and, as you can imagine, applying a red hot iron to a horses's leg is a pretty unpleasant and painful experience.