Oliver Stone slams finale (spoilers)

IvaBigWun

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/10/09/oliver-stone-slams-breaking-bad-finale/

Oliver Stone still knows how to get people rankled. The Platoon, Savages and Natural Born Killers director reportedly slammed the finale of AMC’s Breaking Bad while promoting his documentary series The Untold History of the United States.

Stone took issue with Breaking Bad as part of a larger critique of cinema violence having become less realistic and more cartoonish over the years. “There’s too much violence in our movies – and it’s all unreal to me,” he said. “I don’t know if you saw the denouement [of Breaking Bad], I happen to not watch the series very much, but I happened to tune in and I saw the most ridiculous 15 minutes of a movie – it would be laughed off the screen.”

In the climactic scene — spoilers, obviously — Walter White parks his car right in front of the clubhouse of a gang of white supremacists. He goes inside, uses a key-chain remote to pop his trunk and drops to the ground. Hiding inside the trunk is a remote-activated machine gun that starts firing away, sweeping back and forth, killing the bad guys inside.

“Nobody could park his car right then and there and could have a machine gun that could go off perfectly and kill all of the bad guys!” Stone said. “It would be a joke. It’s only in the movies that you find this kind of fantasy violence. And that’s infected the American culture; you young people believe all of this s–t. Batman and Superman, you’ve lost your minds, and you don‘t even know it! At least respect violence. I’m not saying don’t show violence, but show it with authenticity. … If people think that bringing a machine gun to your last meeting is a solution to a television series that’s very popular, I think they’re insane. Something’s wrong. It’s not the world we know.”

J. Marston

you young people believe all of this s–t. Batman and Superman, you’ve lost your minds, and you don‘t even know it!

Is he....is he saying Batman and Superman aren't real?

Sinfonia

“I don’t know if you saw the denouement [of Breaking Bad], I happen to not watch the series very much...”

He pretty much lost me here.
He's not necessarily wrong or anything, and if I were to nitpick I could say I had problems with that scene (the biggest one being that the only two of the Nazi crew to survive just perfectly happened to be Jack and Todd, giving Walt and Jesse their respective personal catharses); but Breaking Bad has never really claimed to be an ultra-realistic show.
It's knowingly made as a fantastic drama, as opposed to something like The Wire.

I think that perhaps if he had watched the series, he might have felt that such a scene was totally forgivable, if not enthralling.

And I don't really care how many great films Stone has made, it's not really big or clever to heavily criticise the work of another artist whilst ignorant to the broader context of the work outside of the short fragment he's attacking. I'm sure the same could be done with almost any of Stone's work (not least Alexander).

onemorechance

Agree with all of Sinfonia, the final scene, like the whole series was enthralling.

The writing of it could not have been much, if any, better, it gave the audience what it wanted at every minute. It was a tv series not a movie; it was a work of fiction not fact.

If he had watched the entire series he would know that if anyone "could park his car right then and there and could have a machine gun that could go off perfectly and kill all of the bad guys" it would be Walt! :pac:

The scene of Walt talking to Jessie while tearing out into the dessert to his money is one of my all-time favourites!

Monkey Allen

Sinfonia wrote: »

He pretty much lost me here.
He's not necessarily wrong or anything, and if I were to nitpick I could say I had problems with that scene (the biggest one being that the only two of the Nazi crew to survive just perfectly happened to be Jack and Todd, giving Walt and Jesse their respective personal catharses); but Breaking Bad has never really claimed to be an ultra-realistic show.
It's knowingly made as a fantastic drama, as opposed to something like The Wire.

I think that perhaps if he had watched the series, he might have felt that such a scene was totally forgivable, if not enthralling.

And I don't really care how many great films Stone has made, it's not really big or clever to heavily criticise the work of another artist whilst ignorant to the broader context of the work outside of the short fragment he's attacking. I'm sure the same could be done with almost any of Stone's work (not least Alexander).

Agreed. If you only read the last page of a book, you might find a ridiculous ending. When you watch every episode you understand Walts genius. There have been plenty of moments in the show where he hasn't seen everything go perfectly for him. Why not finish with a perfect plan to say 'practice makes perfect' or to show that he might have actually got away with it all if Jesse hadn't messed most of it up and he was left to do it all by himself.

I think it was really important to finish off the show and character and there is no way it would have worked if Walt didn't win (sort of).

If he's suggesting that all fans of the show were suckers for liking it, he needs to change career.

Only two things I didn't like about Breaking Bad, the acting quality of Skyler and Marie.

onemorechance

Skyler and Marie were peripheral characters for much of it and I think they both acted well when their characters became aware of Walt's hidden side. For Marie that wasn't long; but I thought she was good in the last couple of epsiodes!

deco nate

Oh I'm gonna follow him on Twitter an troll the **** out of him!

Really after all the bs he has put in his
movies he comes out with this bs?!

Sabre0001

"while promoting his documentary series"

Well, that explains it

D-FENS

Platoon is a work of art but from a man who more recently brought us Alexander and Wall Street 2, he really should shut his pie hole

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Ah, the good auld days of film when death wasn't exaggerated at all. I remember them well Mr.Stone, I remember them well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKpQB3bEPbI

snausages

^^I think his point is that Breaking bad revels in it a little bit while Platoon definitely does not. It's more of an indictment of violence. Or something.

I hated Platoon btw

clairefontaine

BB has a cartoonish element to it, but its part f it macabre humour. Much of the show sustains implausibility from the start, but its overlooked because the show is so much fun.

Oliver stone should shut it.

lahalane

Violence has become less realistic and more cartoonish says the director of Natural Born Killers who wants to promote his new documentary by ripping into a show thats being lauded for the last two weeks. He certainly has achieved his goal of making people talk about him. Well played Oliver.

Im still not watching your documentary though.

rovoagho

Stone is being a dick but I agree that the finale wasn't right, not because of the violence but because it wrapped everything up in a nice, neat pink bow. It was unbecoming of the series, imho; it was boring.

This annoys me even more because I was a bit sloshed when E14 was over, backed up in Netflix, saw no more episodes (Netflix doesn't queue them for running shows) and thought it was the finale.

And I was delighted. Jesse's trapped in a bunker cooking meth for eternity, and Walt goes off into the sunset, with his money and nothing else. How much more fitting was that?

I was actually disappointed when I realised there was more episodes.

Monkey Allen

rovoagho wrote: »

Stone is being a dick but I agree that the finale wasn't right, not because of the violence but because it wrapped everything up in a nice, neat pink bow. It was unbecoming of the series, imho; it was boring.

This annoys me even more because I was a bit sloshed when E14 was over, backed up in Netflix, saw no more episodes (Netflix doesn't queue them for running shows) and thought it was the finale.

And I was delighted. Jesse's trapped in a bunker cooking meth for eternity, and Walt goes off into the sunset, with his money and nothing else. How much more fitting was that?

I was actually disappointed when I realised there was more episodes.

Ending on episode 14 would set a new bench mark in bad endings. It would cause mass suicide across the planet. Maybe not that far but I would most certainly be enraged.

What mad the last episode so perfect was the fact it was so breaking bad. The way it started impossibly slow making me think there wouldn't be time to fit everything in was typical of the series. A feeling I remember when in season 1 when Walt walks out, head shaven for the first time, with a bloody nose and a duffel bag. It seemed to take ages to see him go to Tucos place. The last episode had that.

It also had that moment of shock, for me at least, when he was making a hand shake deal with Elliot and Gretchen. Seemed like a waste of time. Then, bam, Walt flicks his fingers and the lasers are on Elliot and Gretchen. Before this scene I thought Walts last task was to off Elliot and Gretchen (or try to at least). Getting the money to his kids seemed impossible. When he saw the interview of Grey Matter on the TV and clenched his fist, I was convinced the risin was for them.

rovoagho

Each to their own. Personally, I'm sick of the madding crowd's demand for everything needing to be wrapped up in a neat little bundle at the end of every TV show and film. It's Disneyfication of the highest order, pandering to the lowest common denominator. A curve ball every once in a while is nice, I have my own imagination and can use it. I expected better from such a high quality show.

These days, the only cliffhangers you get are between seasons, they're only permanent if the show is cancelled.

Monkey Allen

rovoagho wrote: »

Each to their own. Personally, I'm sick of the madding crowd's demand for everything needing to be wrapped up in a neat little bundle at the end of every TV show and film. It's Disneyfication of the highest order, pandering to the lowest common denominator. A curve ball every once in a while is nice, I have my own imagination and can use it. I expected better from such a high quality show.

These days, the only cliffhangers you get are between seasons, they're only permanent if the show is cancelled.

I think you missed the point. It was about it ending, not about it giving an ending to everything. The viewer is at the mercy of the writer and let's them portray how it ends. That's what made it worth watching.

To use a word such as 'Disneyfication' in a thread about Breaking Bad suggests to me that you need to rewatch Felina.

rovoagho

Like I said, each to their own. You obviously consider yourself an expert, what with referencing the episode by the title and all, but your concept of satisfying is not the same as everyone else's. It's not a personal affront, and it's just a TV show.

krudler

BB has always had surreal violence in it, the acid bath,the twins, Gus's nursing home visit, box cutter, the ATM vs meth head head, etc etc. It's never been a highly realistic show, there's a surreal humour throughout all the seasons and most of it revolves around violence.

snausages

Surreality isn't an issue. It just had the feeling of a perfunctory ending. Every plot strand and tension is resolved in an almost conveyor belt fashion, like they were just ticking off the boxes until the final scene. There were no real surprises. The acid bath and the ATM machine were big wtf moments. The finale really had very little like that.

I would have preferred if somehow the timeline could have been changed so that Ozymandias was the finale and felina was episode 14. I don't know how that might work.

Monkey Allen

rovoagho wrote: »

Like I said, each to their own. You obviously consider yourself an expert, what with referencing the episode by the title and all, but your concept of satisfying is not the same as everyone else's. It's not a personal affront, and it's just a TV show.

I don't consider myself an expert in anything. I used the name of the episode, you knew what it meant.

Obviously I don't feel attacked by your opinion. I thought this thread was about discussing the different views on it, as well as Oliver Stones'. It's just a tv show, but also the best tv show of all time. Also opinion. But the opinion of many, probably the majority of its viewers. As was the opinion of Felina being a fantastic ending.

rovoagho

Specifying that a majority think something is best - cool time machine BTW - is not an opinion, it's stating a fact. Without evidence, I might add.

BunShopVoyeur.

I absolutely loved Breaking Bad but I'd have to agree with the man here.

The finale was a cop out. Total horse shit.

I was all too convenient and came across as lazy.


I'm clearly in the minority as anyone I spoke to about it said that they loved it.

snausages

I really didn't feel anything when Walt died either. It was just like 'Oh, I guess he's dead now'. Just no impact whatsoever and it's not like I wasn't properly invested in him or anything, I think he's probably one of the most compelling TV anti-heroes we've ever had.

rovoagho

This is my point, Walt riding off with the extractor and Jesse in a meth loop was oddly satisfying, like their personal versions of endless hell.

But hey, ratings count for everything and this is better than The Wire, despite the shows having completely different dynamics.

Personally, I think that if they really wanted to tie the show up completely, they would've buried Walt Junior up to his neck in the desert and left him there. Now that would've been satisfying.

clairefontaine

Thè finale was lame, total cop out.

Monkey Allen

rovoagho wrote: »

Specifying that a majority think something is best - cool time machine BTW - is not an opinion, it's stating a fact. Without evidence, I might add.

I don't get the time machine reference.

I don't actually get why you say that I stated an opinion which you say can only be fact and then claim I have no proof of this fact.

My opinion, based on what I've read and heard, is that the majority seemed to be pleased with the ending.

Wacker The Attacker

rovoagho wrote: »

This is my point, Walt riding off with the extractor and Jesse in a meth loop was oddly satisfying, like their personal versions of endless hell.

But hey, ratings count for everything and this is better than The Wire, despite the shows having completely different dynamics.

Personally, I think that if they really wanted to tie the show up completely, they would've buried Walt Junior up to his neck in the desert and left him there. Now that would've been satisfying.

It would have been ultra satisfying to have Lydia dressed up in a gimp costume with Todd spanking her bare ass with a table tennis racket until she shoots off.

Todd would be wearing a pigs mask with clothes pegs fastened to his nipples

Wacker The Attacker

BunShopVoyeur. wrote: »

I absolutely loved Breaking Bad but I'd have to agree with the man here.

The finale was a cop out. Total horse shit.

I was all too convenient and came across as lazy.


I'm clearly in the minority as anyone I spoke to about it said that they loved it.

What would you have done differently?

georgesstreet

IvaBigWun wrote: »

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/10/09/oliver-stone-slams-breaking-bad-finale/

"Man criticises TV fiction". Why does anyone care what Oliver Stone thinks about breaking Bad?

jimmytwotimes 2013

Like many ohers here I don't care what Stone has to say about Breaking Bad. As many have said it smacks of double standards when you consider he directed Natural Born Killers, which is as ridiculous a movie as I've ever seen. A glorification of violence in a comic book style.

Lets not forget JFK either, a movie which played on the popular conspiracy theories on the assassination and really did historical debate on the event no favours at all. That movie contained the ' back and to the left.....', scene, rightly criticized for revelling in a real-life death.

georgesstreet

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Like many ohers here I don't care what Stone has to say about Breaking Bad. As many have said it smacks of double standards when you consider he directed Natural Born Killers, which is as ridiculous a movie as I've ever seen. A glorification of violence in a comic book style.

Lets not forget JFK either, a movie which played on the popular conspiracy theories on the assassination and really did historical debate on the event no favours at all. That movie contained the ' back and to the left.....', scene, rightly criticized for revelling in a real-life death.

You don't care what Oliver Stones says about it, then you go on to comment on it and appear to care by commenting

jimmytwotimes 2013

georgesstreet wrote: »

You don't care what Oliver Stones says about it, then you go on to comment on it and appear to care by commenting

Oliver Stones?? He must have found the other one

crazygeryy

Fcuk off oliver.

RobbingBandit

Ending was very easy to watch and believe if you were a fan of the show, the character of Walter White was a genius, evil genius easily able to build such a setup as the ending contained, to Oliver Stones credit if you like he had not been following the show and seen Walters plot unfolding you would indeed dismiss the ending as crap which it was not in the slightest. I wonder what his take was on the use of Hector and his wheelchair to take out Gus, again a great example of Walters genius used in such a grim manner.

georgesstreet

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Ending was very easy to watch and believe if you were a fan of the show, the character of Walter White was a genius, evil genius easily able to build such a setup as the ending contained, to Oliver Stones credit if you like he had not been following the show and seen Walters plot unfolding you would indeed dismiss the ending as crap which it was not in the slightest. I wonder what his take was on the use of Hector and his wheelchair to take out Gus, again a great example of Walters genius used in such a grim manner.

I am able to enjoy s program or not without wondering what Oliver Stoners take is on it. Why are you so interested in his take on it?

RobbingBandit

georgesstreet wrote: »

I am able to enjoy s program or not without wondering what Oliver Stoners take is on it. Why are you so interested in his take on it?

Woah it's the Gestapo, Jebus sir here are my papers, HERE ARE MY PAPERS...

Ok I made one comment on this thread prior to this one, doesn't make me a "so interested" kinda guy now does it, Oliver Stone was being a dick to make a comment on a show he does not even like or didn't watch.

rovoagho

It's a disgrace, people using forums for discussion of all things. There'll be a letter about this in the Times tomorrow.

georgesstreet

RobbingBandit wrote: »

I wonder what his take was on the use of Hector and his wheelchair to take out Gus, again a great example of Walters genius used in such a grim manner.

RobbingBandit wrote: »

... doesn't make me a "so interested" kinda guy now does it,

I have no idea what level of interest you may have. I wondered why you have interest in his take, as opposed to what level of interest you may have.

April O Neill

Sinfonia wrote: »

And I don't really care how many great films Stone has made

Not many, TBH.

April O Neill

rovoagho wrote: »

It's Disneyfication of the highest order, pandering to the lowest common denominator. A curve ball every once in a while is nice

The quoted bit; so very cliché.

April O Neill

rovoagho wrote: »

Specifying that a majority think something is best - cool time machine BTW - is not an opinion, it's stating a fact. Without evidence, I might add.

The most anally retentive post I've read on boards in a long while. And that's saying something.