Your under 25 Irish 23 man squad.

student1990

1. Jack McGrath(23)
2. Jason Harris-Wright(24)
3. Martin Moore(22)
4. Iain Henderson(21)
5. Mick Kearney(22)
6. POM(24)
7. Dominic Ryan(23)
8. Jordi Murphy(22)
9. Conor Murray(24)
10. Ian Madigan(24)
11. Simin Zebo(23)
12. Luke Marshall(22)
13. Stuart Olding(20)
14. Craig Gilroy(22)
15. Dave Kearney(24)
16. Niall Annett(22)
17. Dave Kilcoyne(24)
18. Tadhg Furlong(20)
19. Dave O'Callaghan(23)
20. Rhys Ruddock(22)
21. Kieran Marmion(21)
22. Paddy Jackson(21)
23. Robbie Henshaw(20)

Fireball07

*JHW is 25. But much the same as yours really.

1. Dave Kilcoyne (24)
2. Rob Herring (23)
3. Martin Moore (22)
4. Iain Henderson (21)
5. Ian Nagle (24)
6. Peter O'Mahony (24)
7. Dominic Ryan (23)
8. Jordi Murphy (24)
9. Conor Murray (24)
10. Ian Madigan (24)
11. Simon Zebo (23)
12. Luke Marshall (22)
13. Stuart Olding (20)
14. Craig Gilroy (22)
15. Robbie Henshaw (20)

16. Niall Annett (22)
17. Jack McGrath (23)
18. Adam Macklin (24)
19. Mick Kearney (22)
20. Rhys Ruddock (22)/Paddy Butler (22)
21. Kieran Marmion (21)
22. Paddy Jackson (21)
23. Dave Kearney (24)



Hard to leave out McSharry but Marshall is pure class, and he's probably behind Olding too.

student1990

Ian Nagle is 25.

And yeah replace JHW with Herring, i guess.

Fireball07

student1990 wrote: »

Ian Nagle is 25.

And yeah replace JHW with Herring, i guess.

Not for another week, he's not. :P

student1990

Fireball07 wrote: »

Not for another week, he's not. :P

jesus, for some reason i seen october and moved on.

Hagz

1. Dave Kilcoyne
2. Rob Herring
3. Martin Moore
4. Iain Henderson
5. Mick Kearney
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Dominic Ryan
8. Jordi Murphy
9. Conor Murray
10. JJ Hanrahan
11. Simon Zebo
12. Dave McSharry
13. Stuart Olding
14. Craig Gilroy
15. Dave Kearney

16. James Rael
17. James Cronin
18. Tadhg Furlong
19. Ian Nagle
20. Paddy Butler
21. Luke McGrath
22. Ian Madigan
23. Michael Allen

awec

Hagz wrote: »

1. Dave Kilcoyne
2. Rob Herring
3. Martin Moore
4. Iain Henderson
5. Mick Kearney
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Dominic Ryan
8. Jordi Murphy
9. Conor Murray
10. JJ Hanrahan
11. Simon Zebo
12. Dave McSharry
13. Stuart Olding
14. Craig Gilroy
15. Dave Kearney

16. James Rael
17. James Cronin
18. Tadhg Furlong
19. Ian Nagle
20. Paddy Butler
21. Luke McGrath
22. Ian Madigan
23. Michael Allen

No Luke Marshall at all? :eek:

student1990

Some bizarre calls based on what have players have done to date.

No Jack McGrath?
No Luke Marshall?
Luke McGrath ahead of Marmion?
Hanrahan ahead of Jackson and Madigan?

Hagz

Meh, you could sub in McGrath for Kilcoyne or Cronin in my eyes. There all pretty much the same at the moment. Come back to me when the season ends.

I'm not a big fan of Luke Marshall. I don't really get all the hype. I much prefer the physicality McSharry brings.

I think Luke McGrath is better than Marmion, but I'm obviously alone on that one. And I think Hanrahan is on a different level to Jackson and Madigan.

Hype710

I'd have Ben Marshall in the row if Dave Foley's overage. Really can't understand how Denton is ahead of him, the only possible explanation is scrum time.

Hagz, Marshall is an incredibly physical defender in the 12 channel and while I like McSharry, Marshall has a lot more strings to his bow. Reduce his error count and he'll be brilliant.

Would love to see a Marshall-Olding combination at some stage this season.

And I'd probably have Gilsenan and Leavy ahead of Dom Ryan.

danthefan

Just looking at the first post, I think there are 6 forwards from Leinster and just 1 back. Things have turned on their head from about 2005 or 2006.

student1990

Can't see how you can put gilso or leavy ahead of Ryan.. yet

Hype710

student1990 wrote: »

Can't see how you can put gilso or leavy ahead of Ryan.. yet

Put it this way, I don't think Ryan will ever be an international class open side but I think the other two will be. Just my opinion.

student1990

Ryan was as hyped if not more at the same age. And probably more top level experience aswell.. just another case of people overrating guys because they are younger and haven't gone through the growing pains of making it as a professional.

desertcircus

Hagz wrote: »

And I think Hanrahan is on a different level to Jackson and Madigan.

On what basis?

Buer

Hagz wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of Luke Marshall. I don't really get all the hype. I much prefer the physicality McSharry brings.

I'd say Marshall can bring as much physicality as McSharry. He's a tank in contact and very hard to put down when he's pumping his legs. He's actually the same weight as McSharry. He's fairly uncompromising in his tackling too.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Marshall is a tank!

jacothelad

Buer wrote: »

I'd say Marshall can bring as much physicality as McSharry. He's a tank in contact and very hard to put down when he's pumping his legs. He's actually the same weight as McSharry. He's fairly uncompromising in his tackling too.

The same weight as McSharry but 6cms shorter. 181 cms to 187 cms. They are both very good players but different in abilities and style. McSharry is also a year further down the development road than Marshall.

freyners

1. McGrath
2. Herring
3. Moore
4. Henderson
5. Kearney
6. POM
7. Dominic Ryan
8. McKeon
9. Murray
10. Madigan
11. Zebo
12. McSharry
13. Olding
14. Gilroy
15. Henshaw

16. Henry
17. Buckley
18. Furlong
19. Nagle
20. Murphy
21. Marmion
22. Jackson
23. Kearney

Green tinted specs might have been worn

siltirocker

Buckley
Sherry
Moore
Henderson
Kearney
O'Mahoney
Ryan
McKeown
Murray
Madigan
Zebo
McSharry
Olding
Gilroy
Henshaw

Harris-Wright
McGrath
Cooney
Nagle
Ruddock
Marmion
Jackson
Kearney

I haven't seen much of Furlong, while I have seen Cooney play well in the Heineken Cup so I put him in.

McKeown is streets ahead of Murphy IMO, really shocked at a lot of people with this.

Not a whole lot of 2nd rows to choose from, although the 2 starting are clear ahead. Although the signings of Muldowney and Clarke have been a bit of a sting to Kearney.

Murphy is unlucky not to be in the back row somewhere, and Dom Ryan lucky to be in there.

Had a hard time regarding McSharry v Marshall and Olding v Griffin. McSharry's management and defensive are pushing him towards Connacht captaincy (he makes Park look good, honestly think of Park's staring Connacht games, McSharry was pulling the strings) and that's what give him the nod for me.

Olding just scraped past Griffin for me, but Griffin's form has been phenomenal this season and he was nearly going to usurp him in my eyes. Bad time to get injured.

siltirocker

jacothelad wrote: »

The same weight as McSharry but 6cms shorter. 181 cms to 187 cms. They are both very good players but different in abilities and style. McSharry is also a year further down the development road than Marshall.

McSharry was starting Heineken Cup 2 years before Marshall got his first cap there so i'd disagree.

Although I have read that sentence wrong and you mean he's been in pro rugby longer. lol

Larbre34

Hagz wrote: »

Meh, you could sub in McGrath for Kilcoyne or Cronin in my eyes. There all pretty much the same at the moment. Come back to me when the season ends.

I'm not a big fan of Luke Marshall. I don't really get all the hype. I much prefer the physicality McSharry brings.

I think Luke McGrath is better than Marmion, but I'm obviously alone on that one. And I think Hanrahan is on a different level to Jackson and Madigan.

He is yeah, one below Jackson and two below Madigan.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Larbre34 wrote: »

He is yeah, one below Jackson and two below Madigan.

Poor old Niall O'Connor must be lonely in the basement

Buer

jacothelad wrote: »

The same weight as McSharry but 6cms shorter. 181 cms to 187 cms. They are both very good players but different in abilities and style. McSharry is also a year further down the development road than Marshall.

Indeed which, in my opinion, translates into Marshall being a more explosive and powerful carrier in many ways. Obviously he has many more strings to his bow though rooted in his earlier playing days as an outhalf where he looked very comfortable also.

bilston

Hagz wrote: »

And I think Hanrahan is on a different level to Jackson and Madigan.

Remains to be seen, I'll openly admit I haven't seen a huge amount of him outside of the U20s but even then when he did a lot of exceptional things he was quite error prone. I watched him against the Dragons last week and the first thing he did was get charged down, his style of kicking from hand seems to be to give the ball quite a low trajectory which maybe increases the risk of a charge down, that said it also increases the chances of accuracy. He looks mentally strong though and is clearly very talented.

It will be interesting to see which process is best. Jackson's fast tracking, or JJ's go slow development. Yes Jackson has had a rough ride at times but I maintain Ulster and indeed Ireland will reap the rewards in a big way two years from now. Of course maybe JJ will just avoid the growing pains altogether.

Tox56

Buer wrote: »

Indeed which, in my opinion, translates into Marshall being a more explosive and powerful carrier in many ways. Obviously he has many more strings to his bow though rooted in his earlier playing days as an outhalf where he looked very comfortable also.

This is the biggest thing for me. He is very strong in contact but he's not a bash it up centre, he has a very good kicking and passing game (he's a former outhalf as you say) and also a surprisingly good sidestep.

He'd be a good player if he had limited distribution skills because he's an excellent defender and he can make yards bashing it up, but with the other aspects of his game he could be an outstanding. 12s as well rounded as him don't come along often anywhere in the world. Cant wait to see him beside BOD again

Goodluck2me

Tox56 wrote: »

This is the biggest thing for me. He is very strong in contact but he's not a bash it up centre, he has a very good kicking and passing game (he's a former outhalf as you say) and also a surprisingly good sidestep.

He'd be a good player if he had limited distribution skills because he's an excellent defender and he can make yards bashing it up, but with the other aspects of his game he could be an outstanding. 12s as well rounded as him don't come along often anywhere in the world. Cant wait to see him beside BOD again

I'd be a huge fan of both of them at 12, I don't think Griffen/Olding are quite as good at 13 yet, I wonder could one of them move out. I'd sense it would be McSharry as his distribution is better, but Marshalls kicking is slightly "less-bad" than his.

bilston

Tox56 wrote: »

This is the biggest thing for me. He is very strong in contact but he's not a bash it up centre, he has a very good kicking and passing game (he's a former outhalf as you say) and also a surprisingly good sidestep.

He'd be a good player if he had limited distribution skills because he's an excellent defender and he can make yards bashing it up, but with the other aspects of his game he could be an outstanding. 12s as well rounded as him don't come along often anywhere in the world. Cant wait to see him beside BOD again

Marshall can sometimes make some mistakes though, but I think that's down to him playing a high risk sort of game, personally I wouldn't want him to change as we often complain about young players having natural talent coached out of them.

Fireball07

Couple of points- JHW and Sherry are both 25, they don't qualify for this. I think Herring is clearly the best under 25 hooker in the country.

Backup from Scannell, Rael, Annett, Casey is much harder to call.

McKeon is a very good player but not streets ahead of Murphy. Although you could try and accommodate them both by putting Murphy at 7. But then you have Butler and Ruddock too.


Freyners had Marmion and McGrath ahead of Murray.... I'm guessing that was a mistake, as Murray is a different class to any other scrum-half in Ireland atm.


And Hanrahan isn't better than Madigan/Jackson as of now, at least not on a proven basis. But this is his chance in the HC this season. Also, Cronin, in competition with Killer and McGrath...looks hugely promising so far.

Larbre34

Fireball07 wrote: »

Couple of points- JHW and Sherry are both 25, they don't qualify for this. I think Herring is clearly the best under 25 hooker in the country.

Backup from Scannell, Rael, Annett, Casey is much harder to call.

Sean Henry? Saw him perform well twice for Munster A against Leinster in the B&I, including the famous extra-time semi final win. He captained Munster A on a few occasions also. Think hes only 24 still, and he's starting ahead of JHW at Connacht the past few weeks..

wp_rathead

Larbre34 wrote: »

Sean Henry? Saw him perform well twice for Munster A against Leinster in the B&I, including the famous extra-time semi final win. He captained Munster A on a few occasions also. Think hes only 25 still, and he's starting ahead of JHW at Connacht the past few weeks..

Only cuase JHW is injured though

freyners

Fireball07 wrote: »

Couple of points- JHW and Sherry are both 25, they don't qualify for this. I think Herring is clearly the best under 25 hooker in the country.

Backup from Scannell, Rael, Annett, Casey is much harder to call.

McKeon is a very good player but not streets ahead of Murphy. Although you could try and accommodate them both by putting Murphy at 7. But then you have Butler and Ruddock too.


Freyners had Marmion and McGrath ahead of Murray.... I'm guessing that was a mistake, as Murray is a different class to any other scrum-half in Ireland atm.


And Hanrahan isn't better than Madigan/Jackson as of now, at least not on a proven basis. But this is his chance in the HC this season. Also, Cronin, in competition with Killer and McGrath...looks hugely promising so far.

Cheers for clearing up about JHW, wasnt sure whether he was 24 or 25

And ya, total mistake about murray, murray to the 9, marmion to bench

Mckeon as an out and out 8 is ahead of Murphy for me, Murphy better able to cover 6/7 but as an 8 its Mckeon by a good margin

Hagz

I wouldn't agree with that to be honest. I'd much rather have Murphy in my team, and that's not a slight on McKeon. Murphy is one of the best young players in Leinster, hence he won young player of the season. I think it's pretty close between the two.

freyners

Hagz wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that to be honest. I'd much rather have Murphy in my team, and that's not a slight on McKeon. Murphy is one of the best young players in Leinster, hence he won young player of the season. I think it's pretty close between the two.

thats fair, i see more of McKeon than Murphy and visa versa for you so its always going to have an influence. I see McKeon as being a least rung above Murphy, mainly due to the fact he was keeping a fully fit and on form George out of the team last year for a while, but I fully admit provincal bias might have a part.

Whatever your preference, at least its great to see that we can have debates like this, competition like McSharry/Marshall, Griffin/Henshaw/Olding, McKeon/Murphy and McGrath/Buckley can only improve our future national teams

schools rugby

Buer wrote: »

Indeed which, in my opinion, translates into Marshall being a more explosive and powerful carrier in many ways. Obviously he has many more strings to his bow though rooted in his earlier playing days as an outhalf where he looked very comfortable also.

How much has Marshall played 10 ? McSharry has played outhalf in his early career

Buer

schools rugby wrote: »

How much has Marshall played 10 ? McSharry has played outhalf in his early career

Schools rugby, Ireland underage, AIL and Ulster A. He has a very good boot on him but doesn't get as much opportunity to use it from 12.

schools rugby

Buer wrote: »

Schools rugby, Ireland underage, AIL and Ulster A. He has a very good boot on him but doesn't get as much opportunity to use it from 12.

McSharry played 10 in school and for underage teams (ireland,leinster etc).

Buer

schools rugby wrote: »

McSharry played 10 in school and for underage teams (ireland,leinster etc).

Are you sure? I thought he was an outhalf at Tempelogue but was moved to centre when he went to Leinster schools (Noel Reid was the outhalf for their tour in 2007). For Ireland schools, McSharry was centre again and it was Marshall himself at outhalf and McKinney at U20 level.

Hagz

He definitley played out-half for UCD a few times.