alternative to gold fish

Gordy6040

Hi all
I'm just moving 3 goldfish into a new
60x30x30 tank, they were in a 12l tank. I know the new tank is too small for full grown fish and I will resettle them once they are bigger. My question is about what the alternative cold water fish are. I don't want anything that will grow too big. Suggestions welcome.

kylith

There is nothing you can keep in a 12 litre tank. Plant some flowers in it.

JanneG

Gordy6040 wrote: »

Hi all
I'm just moving 3 goldfish into a new
60x30x30 tank, they were in a 12l tank. I know the new tank is too small for full grown fish and I will resettle them once they are bigger. My question is about what the alternative cold water fish are. I don't want anything that will grow too big. Suggestions welcome.

If you're talking about your newer 54l tank, then you could potentially have 4-5 white cloud minnows, but wouldn't really go much above that.

Gordy6040

kylith wrote: »

There is nothing you can keep in a 12 litre tank. Plant some flowers in it.

I know, hence the move to a bigger tank.

Gordy6040

JanneG wrote: »

If you're talking about your newer 54l tank, then you could potentially have 4-5 white cloud minnows, but wouldn't really go much above that.

Thanks.
The pet shops and fish shops i've been to only seem to carry gold fish though. any ideas where i could source them?

kylith

Gordy6040 wrote: »

I know, hence the move to a bigger tank.

Apologies. I thought that because you had moved the goldfish you were looking for something for the 12L bowl.

If you're based in Dublin Seahorse would probably have minnows.

Meleftone

White cloud minnows or zebra danios. I have 5 Zebra Danios in a 125 litre planted tank for about 6 months now and have had no problems with them at all.

Gordy6040

kylith wrote: »

Apologies. I thought that because you had moved the goldfish you were looking for something for the 12L bowl.

If you're based in Dublin Seahorse would probably have minnows.

The small tank was bought in ignorance, we actually thought it was plenty big for a few fish and went with advice from the local pet shop
It will be cleaned and put in storage once I'm happy with the quality of the new setup

CruelCoin

Gordy6040 wrote: »

The small tank was bought in ignorance, we actually thought it was plenty big for a few fish and went with advice from the local pet shop
It will be cleaned and put in storage once I'm happy with the quality of the new setup

Keep it!

It's the perfect size for a shrimp tank.

Shrimps and apple snails look great together, and there have recently been a lot of developments in breeding in shrimps. Lots of new colours coming available.

Gordy6040

Now thats an interesting idea.
i'll google shrimp setups, i guess they'll need a heater etc like a tropical setup?

CruelCoin

Gordy6040 wrote: »

Now thats an interesting idea.
i'll google shrimp setups, i guess they'll need a heater etc like a tropical setup?

In the wild these shrimps live in streams that reach 28c in summer and freeze over in winter!

Ideal temperatures are 24c but go for 27/28 if you want them to breed (and they breed quick!)

Some need soft water, some hardwater, but most of the beginner varieties can tolerate anything remotely habitable.
Mosses and low growing plants for cover.
Leaf litter (oak is perfect) helps.
Copper is toxic to shrimp. If you use tap water, run it for a while first to ensure water going into the tank has not been sitting too long in any copper pipes you may have.
Shrimp have a tiny, tiny bio-load, so need only very little filtration. Any filtration you have is actually more for the benefit of the plants to keep water (and hence nutrients) moving around them.

Feeding is easy: Just throw stuff in. They'll eat anything from flake/pellet/bloodworm/courgette/lettuce, etc. Variety in the diet helps.
They are slow feeders, so put in what the group will consume in 2-3 hours or so. The rest of the time they will just graze off the substrate/plants/decor etc. They never stop grazing. Ever.....

Every now and then the shrimps moult, to allow for growth. Don't remove the moulted shell! You'll notice it disappears after a day or so, as the shrimps will eat it to get the calcium from it.

There are two common varieties for sale: Red Crystal (stunning but delicate) and red cherry (all red and hard as nails, better for beginners). You can get shrimp in red/blue/black tiger, red cherry, rili, green, yellow, orange, black bee, red bee, etc etc.

This is a good page to go for some basic info, shrimp species list on the left hand side. This is by no means a total list:
http://www.planetinverts.com/Red%20Cherry%20Shrimp.html

Here is a grading guide for Red Crystals.
http://www.aquadisiacstore.com.au/crystal_red_shrimp_quick_grading_guide.jpg
C grade cost peanuts, sss grade can go for €1000's.
The vast majority of shops in ireland only offer S/A grades.
A lot of inbreeding is needed to produce the better grades, so as a result, you get healthier and stronger shrimp the lower grade you go.

Tigers can cost €10, S/A grade cystals €5, red cherries €2.50/3

Hope this helps!

CC.

Gordy6040

Thanks CC.
Very helpful indeed :-)

CruelCoin

Gordy6040 wrote: »

Thanks CC.
Very helpful indeed :-)

Welcome,

If and when you set this up, post pics!

CC.

chopper6

CruelCoin wrote: »

In the wild these shrimps live in streams that reach 28c in summer and freeze over in winter!

Ideal temperatures are 24c but go for 27/28 if you want them to breed (and they breed quick!)

Some need soft water, some hardwater, but most of the beginner varieties can tolerate anything remotely habitable.
Mosses and low growing plants for cover.
Leaf litter (oak is perfect) helps.
Copper is toxic to shrimp. If you use tap water, run it for a while first to ensure water going into the tank has not been sitting too long in any copper pipes you may have.
Shrimp have a tiny, tiny bio-load, so need only very little filtration. Any filtration you have is actually more for the benefit of the plants to keep water (and hence nutrients) moving around them.

Feeding is easy: Just throw stuff in. They'll eat anything from flake/pellet/bloodworm/courgette/lettuce, etc. Variety in the diet helps.
They are slow feeders, so put in what the group will consume in 2-3 hours or so. The rest of the time they will just graze off the substrate/plants/decor etc. They never stop grazing. Ever.....

Every now and then the shrimps moult, to allow for growth. Don't remove the moulted shell! You'll notice it disappears after a day or so, as the shrimps will eat it to get the calcium from it.

There are two common varieties for sale: Red Crystal (stunning but delicate) and red cherry (all red and hard as nails, better for beginners). You can get shrimp in red/blue/black tiger, red cherry, rili, green, yellow, orange, black bee, red bee, etc etc.

This is a good page to go for some basic info, shrimp species list on the left hand side. This is by no means a total list:
http://www.planetinverts.com/Red%20Cherry%20Shrimp.html

Here is a grading guide for Red Crystals.
http://www.aquadisiacstore.com.au/crystal_red_shrimp_quick_grading_guide.jpg
C grade cost peanuts, sss grade can go for €1000's.
The vast majority of shops in ireland only offer S/A grades.
A lot of inbreeding is needed to produce the better grades, so as a result, you get healthier and stronger shrimp the lower grade you go.

Tigers can cost €10, S/A grade cystals €5, red cherries €2.50/3

Hope this helps!

CC.

Probabaly a stupid question but can I keep shrimp and crayfish together?

CruelCoin

chopper6 wrote: »

Probabaly a stupid question but can I keep shrimp and crayfish together?

Not stupid at all.

If you get dwarf cray's then yes it's a grey area..

All of the larger varieties are aggressive and have large pincers. You'll go to bed and wake up to a smug looking cray in a field of shrimp bits.....

Best not to mix to be honest.

chopper6

CruelCoin wrote: »

Not stupid at all.

If you get dwarf cray's then yes it's a grey area..

All of the larger varieties are aggressive and have large pincers. You'll go to bed and wake up to a smug looking cray in a field of shrimp bits.....

Best not to mix to be honest.

Grand..thanks.

My crayfish is both large and aggressive!

CruelCoin

Always read/ask advice first. Gets expensive otherwise.

I have a golden wonder killiefish, and before i moved him into a larger tank i added 5 shrimp to the tank, costing €8 each.

They didn't survive the night....

Bastard killiefish and his €30 midnight snack.

Nody

CruelCoin wrote: »

Bastard killiefish and his €30 midnight snack.

Thanks; gave me a much needed laugh this morning thinking how it goes "oh shinies nom nom nom".

CruelCoin

Nody wrote: »

Thanks; gave me a much needed laugh this morning thinking how it goes "oh shinies nom nom nom".

Sorry i derped.

5x8 = 40..... Even worse.

Bits of shell everywhere and one suspiciously fat and smug looking killie.

ZiabR

Another highly underrated and hard fish to find is the Rainbow Dace.

Beautiful.

Gloomtastic!

CruelCoin wrote: »

In the wild these shrimps live in streams that reach 28c in summer and freeze over in winter!

Ideal temperatures are 24c but go for 27/28 if you want them to breed (and they breed quick!)

Some need soft water, some hardwater, but most of the beginner varieties can tolerate anything remotely habitable.
Mosses and low growing plants for cover.
Leaf litter (oak is perfect) helps.
Copper is toxic to shrimp. If you use tap water, run it for a while first to ensure water going into the tank has not been sitting too long in any copper pipes you may have.
Shrimp have a tiny, tiny bio-load, so need only very little filtration. Any filtration you have is actually more for the benefit of the plants to keep water (and hence nutrients) moving around them.

Feeding is easy: Just throw stuff in. They'll eat anything from flake/pellet/bloodworm/courgette/lettuce, etc. Variety in the diet helps.
They are slow feeders, so put in what the group will consume in 2-3 hours or so. The rest of the time they will just graze off the substrate/plants/decor etc. They never stop grazing. Ever.....

Every now and then the shrimps moult, to allow for growth. Don't remove the moulted shell! You'll notice it disappears after a day or so, as the shrimps will eat it to get the calcium from it.

There are two common varieties for sale: Red Crystal (stunning but delicate) and red cherry (all red and hard as nails, better for beginners). You can get shrimp in red/blue/black tiger, red cherry, rili, green, yellow, orange, black bee, red bee, etc etc.

This is a good page to go for some basic info, shrimp species list on the left hand side. This is by no means a total list:
http://www.planetinverts.com/Red%20Cherry%20Shrimp.html

Here is a grading guide for Red Crystals.
http://www.aquadisiacstore.com.au/crystal_red_shrimp_quick_grading_guide.jpg
C grade cost peanuts, sss grade can go for €1000's.
The vast majority of shops in ireland only offer S/A grades.
A lot of inbreeding is needed to produce the better grades, so as a result, you get healthier and stronger shrimp the lower grade you go.

Tigers can cost €10, S/A grade cystals €5, red cherries €2.50/3

Hope this helps!

CC.

Thanks CC. Bought some red cherries last week, fascinating little creatures. Will be buying more soon!

CruelCoin

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Thanks CC. Bought some red cherries last week, fascinating little creatures. Will be buying more soon!

The real fascination is when they start breeding.

You will see large females with bundles of eggs on her underside.
You'll see her flick at them with her legs/tail to move water over them.

Baby shrimp hatch live from these eggs and swim free. And soon enough you'll see 2/3mm teeny-weeny shrimp scuttling around the place.

To up your breeding chances, get total 10 shrimp at least, so that you eliminate the odds of it being just a bunch of females/males.