Partnerships & farming on your own

awaywithyou

guys,

was wondering if you enter a partnership with your father/mother or both.. and the herd number is between the 2 or 3 partners...

can any of the partners go and get a herd number in there own name and completely separate from the partnership and keep there own cattle/cows whatever.....?? rent land in there own name..? have quota in their own name?? etc..

cheers for any replies!

Dont be daft

awaywithyou wrote: »

guys,

was wondering if you enter a partnership with your father/mother or both.. and the herd number is between the 2 or 3 partners...

can any of the partners go and get a herd number in there own name and completely separate from the partnership and keep there own cattle/cows whatever.....?? rent land in there own name..? have quota in their own name?? etc..

cheers for any replies!

I'm not entirely sure if you can.

But if the partnership was a limited company and there were 2 or 3 shareholders then there is no reason why a shareholder couldn't have their own herd number, land etc.

funny man

Dont be daft wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure if you can.

But if the partnership was a limited company and there were 2 or 3 shareholders then there is no reason why a shareholder couldn't have their own herd number, land etc.

I would check that one out as you can't be a sole trader and have your farm in a limited company, but your life partner can.

freedominacup

funny man wrote: »

I would check that one out as you can't be a sole trader and have your farm in a limited company, but your life partner can.

. Explain please.

bob charles

surely I could run a ltd company say dairying and have a seperate ltd company for a beef side of the business with seperate herd numbers or be a sole trader with one enterprise and a director of a ltd company

1chippy

bob charles wrote: »

surely I could run a ltd company say dairying and have a seperate ltd company for a beef side of the business with seperate herd numbers or be a sole trader with one enterprise and a director of a ltd company

I'd agree with bob. . Ring the department and they will set you straight
I'm pretty sure you can. Il take it you want to push on with a section of farming that your parents don't.

funny man

i am fairly sure that you can't be registered as a sole trader and run your business as a limited company as well, the question of two limited companies is different, you can have as many companies as you want, i'm not an accountant so i hope someone on here can clear it up but i run my farm under several companies.

delaval

awaywithyou wrote: »

guys,

was wondering if you enter a partnership with your father/mother or both.. and the herd number is between the 2 or 3 partners...

can any of the partners go and get a herd number in there own name and completely separate from the partnership and keep there own cattle/cows whatever.....?? rent land in there own name..? have quota in their own name?? etc..

cheers for any replies!

The answer is Yes

Have you joined the partnership yet?
If so, is it a MPP (milk production partnership) this can be tricky but doable

If you have not joined I would recommend that you have a serious think as the tone of your post indicates you are on a different track to the others. Remember if its 3 people you have 33% stake so it's important it works

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

The answer is Yes

Have you joined the partnership yet?
If so, is it a MPP (milk production partnership) this can be tricky but doable

If you have not joined I would recommend that you have a serious think as the tone of your post indicates you are on a different track to the others. Remember if its 3 people you have 33% stake so it's important it works

Can partnership be 1%,1%,98% in MPP. Are some of these laws that farmers are abiding by not anti competitive and illegal?? like being sole trader and company director

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

Can partnership be 1%,1%,98% in MPP. Are some of these laws that farmers are abiding by not anti competitive and illegal?? like being sole trader and company director

Yes depends on your equity but in reality the lowest would be 20%
You can be a director of several companies, not sure about being a sole trader aswell, why not?
A MPP doesn't need to be a company
You can be in a partnership and thats not a dairy farm

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Yes depends on your equity but in reality the lowest would be 20%
You can be a director of several companies, not sure about being a sole trader aswell, why not?
A MPP doesn't need to be a company
You can be in a partnership and thats not a dairy farm

where is that boyo that had the stand at the ploughing gone when we need him

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

Yes depends on your equity but in reality the lowest would be 20%
You can be a director of several companies, not sure about being a sole trader aswell, why not?
A MPP doesn't need to be a company
You can be in a partnership and thats not a dairy farm

Wouldn't most of the Glanbia farmer directors over the years have been sole traders and directors of the company at the same time?

funny man

freedominacup wrote: »

Wouldn't most of the Glanbia farmer directors over the years have been sole traders and directors of the company at the same time?

I'd say it may be due to the fact that they don't own/control glanbia (even if they are shareholders).

delaval

funny man wrote: »

I'd say it may be due to the fact that they don't own/control glanbia (even if they are shareholders).

To be clear a person can operate as a sole trader and co. director
I didn't think of it earlier but I am a company director, a partner and a sole trader and no problems

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

To be clear a person can operate as a sole trader and co. director
I didn't think of it earlier but I am a company director, a partner and a sole trader and no problems

but they arent all farms or are they?

i.e. your involved with a herd number as par of a company, as a partner and sole trader, so 3 separate herd numbers. Doubt they will allow that under some make up rule in there rule book

dar31

Can't hold more than one herd no. No matter what way you swing it.
Even as a co dir in a partnership your herd no assoated with you as a sole trader becomes dormant in place of partnership herd no

Edit
No problem being a co dir of a non farming company

bob charles

dar31 wrote: »

Can't hold more than one herd no. No matter what way you swing it.
Even as a co dir in a partnership your herd no assoated with you as a sole trader becomes dormant in place of partnership herd no

unless you set up a holding company to farm trading through the Netherlands and have a farm manager as the contact. Directors of the company would be completely unknown. while you could also be a sole trader. I operating two ..................... best not say:rolleyes: incase the police are looking

dar31

bob charles wrote: »

unless you set up a holding company to farm trading through the Netherlands and have a farm manager as the contact. Directors of the company would be completely unknown. while you could also be a sole trader. I operating two ..................... best not say:rolleyes: incase the police are looking

"But all ye do is milk cows" as the accountant says.

bob charles

Lakill will be over this like a rash first thing in the morning. Holding companies will put $$$$$ signs in his eyes

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

but they arent all farms or are they?

i.e. your involved with a herd number as par of a company, as a partner and sole trader, so 3 separate herd numbers. Doubt they will allow that under some make up rule in there rule book

Each unit has a herd number. I'll not say more and you'll understand why

awaywithyou

delaval wrote: »

The answer is Yes

Have you joined the partnership yet?
If so, is it a MPP (milk production partnership) this can be tricky but doable

If you have not joined I would recommend that you have a serious think as the tone of your post indicates you are on a different track to the others. Remember if its 3 people you have 33% stake so it's important it works

hi delaval,

thanks for your reply... ive no problem with the partnership and it is a milk production partnership... just if i wanted to keep a few cattle myself as a hobby or down the road start my own herd of cows..... will ther be a problem.....??

Love/hate is on...!

delaval

awaywithyou wrote: »

hi delaval,

thanks for your reply... ive no problem with the partnership and it is a milk production partnership... just if i wanted to keep a few cattle myself as a hobby or down the road start my own herd of cows..... will ther be a problem.....??

Love/hate is on...!

It will be very difficult and not worth it for a few cattle. The advantages of a partnership out weigh any reason to strike out on your own. You can always increase your equity

lakill Farm

bob charles wrote: »

Lakill will be over this like a rash first thing in the morning. Holding companies will put $$$$$ signs in his eyes

, haha holding companies and SPV's :eek:.

You can operate as a sole trader and as a partner and as a Dir all at the same time.

For instance you can be in 10 different partnerships have have a different tax number in each and have a different %

bob charles

lakill Farm wrote: »

, haha holding companies and SPV's :eek:.

You can operate as a sole trader and as a partner and as a Dir all at the same time.

For instance you can be in 10 different partnerships have have a different tax number in each and have a different %

yes but could you be a partner in 10 different herd numbers. doubt it

lakill Farm

bob charles wrote: »

yes but could you be a partner in 10 different herd numbers. doubt it

I dont know. At the end of the day the partnership is a different legal identity and as far as i can remember on a herd no application for partnerships and companies it asks for principal stock manager/person in charge

funny man

lakill Farm wrote: »

, haha holding companies and SPV's :eek:.

You can operate as a sole trader and as a partner and as a Dir all at the same time.

For instance you can be in 10 different partnerships have have a different tax number in each and have a different %

so can i farm as a sole trader and register a company to feed my cows,100% owned by me, put all my machinery into it, register for vat to claim back vat on diesel and on new machinery purchases. also can i pay this company more money when i have a good year with out revenue raising an eyebrow?

lakill Farm

funny man wrote: »

so can i farm as a sole trader and register a company to feed my cows,100% owned by me, put all my machinery into it, register for vat to claim back vat on diesel and on new machinery purchases. also can i pay this company more money when i have a good year with out revenue raising an eyebrow?

pay this company?

Normally set it up that you own the freehold property and the company ownes the day to day current assets, eg machinery, jeep, cows and the company pays you a salary and rent

funny man

but would this work, can i set up a company for machinery work only and be a sole trader?

lakill Farm

funny man wrote: »

but would this work, can i set up a company for machinery work only and be a sole trader?

Yes. The Limited company would almost be a "contracting company"?

Dont forget you would have to charge VAT to you the sole trader from the company if the Ltd company is registered for VAT

delaval

funny man wrote: »

but would this work, can i set up a company for machinery work only and be a sole trader?

Yes and if registered for vat you would need to charge farm. If services are 37k or goods 75k you are oblidged to reg for vat.
A company doesn't have to be vat reg unless in the above bracket

awaywithyou

lakill Farm wrote: »

I dont know. At the end of the day the partnership is a different legal identity and as far as i can remember on a herd no application for partnerships and companies it asks for principal stock manager/person in charge

looked into this earlier... your name can be associated with one herd number only..... the dept will look for the herdkeeper's name and use that name to have on their computer systems... all partners names used to be on the system.. and when herd test notifications were sent out all names were on the envelope/letters etc. from the dept.... to tidy this up... you have a herdkeeper now and if there are partners well the dept know bout it and thats it...

that puts paid to having a herd number in my own name.... wife's birthday is coming up.... her present will be an application form for a herd number in her name..!!

funny man

awaywithyou wrote: »

looked into this earlier... your name can be associated with one herd number only..... the dept will look for the herdkeeper's name and use that name to have on their computer systems... all partners names used to be on the system.. and when herd test notifications were sent out all names were on the envelope/letters etc. from the dept.... to tidy this up... you have a herdkeeper now and if there are partners well the dept know bout it and thats it...

that puts paid to having a herd number in my own name.... wife's birthday is coming up.... her present will be an application form for a herd number in her name..!!

yea i tried that one and had to do similar to keep two herd numbers two sfp and two headage payments.

bob charles

funny man wrote: »

yea i tried that one and had to do similar to keep two herd numbers two sfp and two headage payments.

once your fire the herds man, twould be in your name

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

once your fire the herds man, twould be in your name

Now your talkin