endurance question

Amprodude

What are best tips to increase endurance? I ride with groups with average speed 30 -35kph. From 70km+ my legs start tiring and i start losing my tempo and with that i get dropped. I can live with pace before that with no issues but not after 70km. Most of my spins with group are between 100-115km.
What can i do to go beyond this 70km milestone without running out of steam?

Ok im not doing enough 100km+ cycles. But do 2-3 35km cycles and maybe a 100km spin on weekends.

Advice.

wirelessdude01

From my somewhat limited knowledge I would say that you just need to get out on longer spins more often.

Wishbone Ash

I don't think 30-35km/h is realistic average for the vast majority of cyclists on anything above 40k.

If you lower your average, you'll go a lot further. On spins exceeding 100k I am happy enough to average 25/26 (on mixed terrain) and over 150k - 24/25km/h.

I find that once I go over 150/200 it becomes psychological rather than physical.

kumate_champ07

are you eating enough/properly and rested/recovered enough before each session?

endurance is the easiest thing to train for, humans are naturally adapted towards endurance

redmaxi

It depends on terrain of course but that is quite a high avg. speed for such long distance, even for a group. Do you do much pulling up the front? Maybe you are doing too much up front?? It's easy to get caught out.
I would say make sure your bike fit is good, get down on the drops as much as possible on the flats and downhill bits etc.. After that - train cycle more as in much more and be consistent.

Amprodude

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

are you eating enough/properly and rested/recovered enough before each session?

endurance is the easiest thing to train for, humans are naturally adapted towards endurance

Porriage and coffee before spin. Granola bars and bananas during cycle. Question is i may not be eating enough at the earlier stages of cycle possibly?

ford2600

Amprodude wrote: »

Porriage and coffee before spin. Granola bars and bananas during cycle. Question is i may not be eating enough at the earlier stages of cycle possibly?

I don't eat at all on 100km spins.

It's your first year on bike you will get stronger.

Train your body to burn fat keep your liver store for when you climb or hit front

monkeyslayer

on the other hand i couldn do a hilly/wicklow mtns 100km without eating and do 100km+ quite often... i usually need to eat something about 90 to 120 mins into a ride, a bar or some sweets, that could be enough to get me through but id usually try to eat more sweets another hour or so later... im not training to lose weight tho so ill eat whatever and whenever but the above keeps me fairly comfortable till the end... by way of advice i usually take my endurance training in hours not distance... itd take me about a month to build up another hour of cycling on top of whatever i have... ie if im good for a three hour spin, itd be a month or so of a few 3 hour / 3 1/2 hour or tough 4 hour spins to hit a comfortable 4...

Lusk_Doyle

Cycle on your own more often. This builds endurance I find as there is nowhere to hide. You can do your own interval efforts also which also helps.

Amprodude

ford2600 wrote: »

I don't eat at all on 100km spins.

It's your first year on bike you will get stronger.

Train your body to burn fat keep your liver store for when you climb or hit front

Its actually my second year on bike now but have come along way personally but stuck with this problem for last few months.

Amprodude

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If you lower your average, you'll go a lot further. On spins exceeding 100k I am happy enough to average 25/26 (on mixed terrain) and over 150k - 24/25km/h.

I dont have a choice when group is hitting over the 30km/h. I would lose them alit earlier if i was going 25km/h. The intermediate group in my club are slower than me so i go with the advanced group to improve.

ford2600

Amprodude wrote: »

Its actually my second year on bike now but have come along way, but stuck with this problem for last few months.

Go out on your own for 50km. Honest effort but keep hr under 70% max.
Don't bring food or eat before you get on bike.
Your body is well able to run on fat at that hr, but will run on glycogen if you keep firing food in.
Even if very slim you have a lot of body fat, it's s huge potential store.
When on group spins if you adapt to burn fat you can keep glycogen for high tempo stuff.
I've done 200km on a handful of nuts and 250 on a sandwich

kumate_champ07

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Cycle on your own more often. This builds endurance I find as there is nowhere to hide. You can do your own interval efforts also which also helps.

or turbo trainer,
group rides imo are best kept for recovery/socializing

outfox

Don't know about you guys, but I found cutting out coffee before the ride made a huge difference. Just the porridge on its own now for breakfast. I'll have a coffee after 100 km, but not before.

Lusk_Doyle

outfox wrote: »

Don't know about you guys, but I found cutting out coffee before the ride made a huge difference. Just the porridge on its own now for breakfast. I'll have a coffee after 100 km, but not before.

I must look into that. I'd often do 60, 70, 80kms on a coffee alone. It's difficult to eat early in the morning for me sometimes.

kencoo

30kph to 35kph is very quick. The average rider on sportifs/groups, on routes that are not flat, which is most of the time would average under 30kph.
A bike can be deceptive in that one minute your wrecked and next you are on top of the world again. However eventually it will wear you down.
Like people have said it may be your food intake however i would imagine its just stamina which needs more input and time to build up. Extra hours on a bike is the only option.
Alternatively, try to stay at 25kph for the first 60km and then kick on if you want. That should allow a much greater distance.

Wishbone Ash

Amprodude wrote: »

I dont have a choice when group is hitting over the 30km/h. I would lose them alit earlier if i was going 25km/h. The intermediate group in my club are slower than me so i go with the advanced group to improve.

Horses for courses I suppose - I'm more interested in distance than speed. Why not go with the intermediate group and add an extra solo 50k to the ride?

Arthurdaly

35kmph with routes over 100km? What are you training for? My guess is pros would not train at such high averages?

Endurance is built up over the off season when intensity is taken down a notch to a relatively easy pace, you need to go fast before you can go slow.

My own club which has a fast group and a ras training group would not touch 35 kmph over 100km at this time of year!

Like others have mentioned I'd drop back to the intermediate group or ask how race pace training at this time of year is of any benefit.

Amprodude

Arthurdaly wrote: »

My own club which has a fast group and a ras training group would not touch 35 kmph over 100km at this time of year!

Someone else said on the advanced group that the pace was high for this time of year. Can I ask how is that? Many of these cyclists would have been doing sportives all year with good pace so i dont understand why they say the pace is high for this time of year??? They did encourage me to keep going with them and keep at it. I said id keep with them as far as i can and then when they drop me to keep going and dont wait. I can stay with them for 7/10 of the route.

wirelessdude01

Amprodude wrote: »

Someone else said on the advanced group that the pace was high for this time of year. Can I ask how is that? Many of these cyclists would have been doing sportives all year with good pace so i dont understand why they say the pace is high for this time of year??? They did encourage me to keep going with them and keep at it.

Reason why people are saying that the pace is a little on the high side for this time of year is because it is essentially off-season now. Time for getting miles in the legs rather than speed/pace work. I know myself I will be joining a club in the next week or two but in preparation I have dropped my avg speed by a km or two but increased my distances by about 25-30km. Need to get used to longer distances.

Arthurdaly

Amprodude wrote: »

Someone else said on the advanced group that the pace was high for this time of year. Can I ask how is that? Many of these cyclists would have been doing sportives all year with good pace so i dont understand why they say the pace is high for this time of year??? They did encourage me to keep going with them and keep at it. I said id keep with them as far as i can and then when they drop me to keep going and dont wait. I can stay with them for 7/10 of the route.

Because a lot of riders will have spent 6 months racing at a high intensity, if you are new to racing you may question why you would not continue and try get faster! If are racing for years then this is the time to wind down, ride at a pace where you can have a conversation and enjoy some banter rather than going balls out! Long low to mid intensity rides, obviously one mans low intensity is another mans high, it sounds like you are in the wrong group!

It's as much a mental thing as Phyical, there is no need to ride at 30+ this time of year,

seamus

Amprodude wrote: »

Someone else said on the advanced group that the pace was high for this time of year. Can I ask how is that? Many of these cyclists would have been doing sportives all year with good pace so i dont understand why they say the pace is high for this time of year??? They did encourage me to keep going with them and keep at it. I said id keep with them as far as i can and then when they drop me to keep going and dont wait. I can stay with them for 7/10 of the route.

Proper training is as much about building the easy mileage as it is about going fast.
While logically you would think "I can do Y km at X km/h, therefore in order to be faster next year I should be doing Y+Z km at X km/h", in reality it doesn't work like that. If you go further at a slightly slower pace, then you will be able to push yourself a little faster at the shorter distances and eventually faster at the longer paces.

Your body simply cannot continue to be pushed at high intensities constantly. You gain as much speed and power in the recovery intervals as you do in the training ones.

Most advanced groups will start out this time of year doing 70kmish spins at just under 30km/h, then increasing that to 100km+ spins by January. Then Feb-April will involve upping the pace by a couple of km/h.

Though raw averages aren't always the best measure. Someone who will be dead doing 25km/h over a hilly 100km could easily average > 30km/h on a flat 100km.

victorcarrera

Amprodude wrote: »

What are best tips to increase endurance? I ride with groups with average speed 30 -35kph. From 70km+ my legs start tiring and i start losing my tempo and with that i get dropped. I can live with pace before that with no issues but not after 70km. Most of my spins with group are between 100-115km.
What can i do to go beyond this 70km milestone without running out of steam?

Ok im not doing enough 100km+ cycles. But do 2-3 35km cycles and maybe a 100km spin on weekends.

Advice.

First try to establish if it is your weight,fitness,diet or a combination of all.
If it is lack of fitness sit on the back for a few spins. Then in a few weeks if you feel up to it try doing a few turns at the front towards the end of the spin. In general this allows everybody in the group to get the workout that suits them without dropping anyone. If you know the route save yourself for the drags and hills.
If it is diet and you are not a well trained fat burner high carb meals and drinks the day before and on the bike might help get you through it for now.
If this is only your second year have patience and give yourself time to adapt.