Danny Morrision-Stormount could collapse.

SoulandForm

http://eamonnmallie.com/2013/10/i-hope-i-am-wrong-but-i-suspect-that-the-assembly-could-collapse-by-danny-morrison/

Personally I find it weird that as one of the brightest and most humanly attractive of the Provisional movement's leadership he bowed out. There are some strong points here- the real question is what is Unionism playing at? Yes they won- but that doesnt mean the victory was total. After all the scares about a united Ireland around the corner gone do they honestly believe they go back the pre-Troubles mess?

Violence is sadly embedded in Northern Ireland.

Hannibal

SoulandForm wrote: »

http://eamonnmallie.com/2013/10/i-hope-i-am-wrong-but-i-suspect-that-the-assembly-could-collapse-by-danny-morrison/

Personally I find it weird that as one of the brightest and most humanly attractive of the Provisional movement's leadership he bowed out. There are some strong points here- the real question is what is Unionism playing at? Yes they won- but that doesnt mean the victory was total. After all the scares about a united Ireland around the corner gone do they honestly believe they go back the pre-Troubles mess?

Violence is sadly embedded in Northern Ireland.

Unionism didn't win. They reliquished a hell of a lot of power and it became law that if it wins democratically then a united Ireland is a reality. Unionists were initially happy in the Stormont power sharing but now they can see nationalist parties SF and the SDLP eating away at their outright majority and the balance being held by the Alliance party.

The union flag is gone off Belfast city hall which brought it into line with a lot of other official buildings up there. If you compare the 6 counties now with what existed pre-1970 then it could be argued that the real winners were nationalists/republicans. They got rid of the apartheid gerrymandered protestant country and it's now placed in democracy and equality. There's also self-determination in that everyone born on the island is entitled to an Irish passport. The real problem with unionists is facing upto the fact that nationalists/republicans are now every bit their equal and the political majority is closing.

They can't use the excuse about the IRA anymore for not negotiating and engaging with nationalists/republicans as the IRA decommissioned weapons in 2005. There is still shootings, killings and weapons being held by loyalist paramilitary forces which hasn't been addressed by unionist politicians to the extent that SF addressed the IRA. I see the UVF are being investigated now for organised crime with the PSNI assistant chief constable Drew Harris saying that "the UVF very clearly have involvement in drug dealing, all forms of gangsterism, serious assaults, intimidation of the community".

Harry Angstrom

SoulandForm wrote: »

http://eamonnmallie.com/2013/10/i-hope-i-am-wrong-but-i-suspect-that-the-assembly-could-collapse-by-danny-morrison/

Personally I find it weird that as one of the brightest and most humanly attractive of the Provisional movement's leadership he bowed out. There are some strong points here- the real question is what is Unionism playing at? Yes they won- but that doesnt mean the victory was total. After all the scares about a united Ireland around the corner gone do they honestly believe they go back the pre-Troubles mess?

Violence is sadly embedded in Northern Ireland.

It always amuses me how those people who take a pen in their hand are suddenly looked upon as latter day Gandhis, when we all know what they really were.

Nodin

SoulandForm wrote: »

http://eamonnmallie.com/2013/10/i-hope-i-am-wrong-but-i-suspect-that-the-assembly-could-collapse-by-danny-morrison/

Personally I find it weird that as one of the brightest and most humanly attractive of the Provisional movement's leadership he bowed out.

...conflict takes its toll.

HarryAngstrom wrote:

It always amuses me how those people who take a pen in their hand are suddenly
looked upon as latter day Gandhis, when we all know what they really were.

He didn't allude to that, or anything like it.

COYW

Hannibal wrote: »

Unionism didn't win. They reliquished a hell of a lot of power and it became law that if it wins democratically then a united Ireland is a reality.

I agree with you that Unionists gave up a hell of a lot just to coerce the republican movement into giving up their terrorist ways but the republicans lost and are losing more and more as each day passes. Correct me if I am wrong but the purpose of the whole republican terrorist campaign was to get a UI, wasn't it?

The flag might not fly over city hall 365 days a years but the flag that flies there, is the Union flag. That building, the home of the current mayor, a republican, will be lit up in bright red to honour the fallen with the poppy appeal. Take a look at any independent poll on a UI in NI and you will see that the people are saying 'No', with a huge majority. Republicans are starting to realize that their decades of murder and terrorism, were in vain. This is too much to take for some and they are walking away.

karma_

COYW wrote: »

I agree with you that Unionists gave up a hell of a lot just to coerce the republican movement into giving up their terrorist ways but the republicans lost and are losing more and more as each day passes. Correct me if I am wrong but the purpose of the whole republican terrorist campaign was to get a UI, wasn't it?

The flag might not fly over city hall 365 days a years but the flag that flies there, is the Union flag. That building, the home of the current mayor, a republican, will be lit up in bright red to honour the fallen with the poppy appeal. Take a look at any independent poll on a UI in NI and you will see that the people are saying 'No', with a huge majority. Republicans are starting to realize that their decades of murder and terrorism, were in vain. This is too much to take for some and they are walking away.

I'm not SF's biggest fan but at least they put the gun away and did what Unionists for years asked, they took the battle to the political sphere. As much as we can point the finger at the Republican role in the Troubles just when are the Unionist parties going to take responsibility for their part? The closest they ever came was Robinson saying that this place was a 'cold house'. That's all we ever got, no responsibility taken at all. And look at them today, they still act like children and throw their toys out of the pram at a moments notice.

Yet look at these threads today, every time it gets turned on it's head and SF are blamed and the elephant in the room is ignored. If Stormont falls, it will be the fault of mainstream Unionism and it's about time they were brought to account.

SoulandForm

karma_ wrote: »

I'm not SF's biggest fan but at least they put the gun away and did what Unionists for years asked, they took the battle to the political sphere. As much as we can point the finger at the Republican role in the Troubles just when are the Unionist parties going to take responsibility for their part? The closest they ever came was Robinson saying that this place was a 'cold house'. That's all we ever got, no responsibility taken at all. And look at them today, they still act like children and throw their toys out of the pram at a moments notice.

Yet look at these threads today, every time it gets turned on it's head and SF are blamed and the elephant in the room is ignored. If Stormont falls, it will be the fault of mainstream Unionism and it's about time they were brought to account.

That was Trimble not Robinson but good post.

Karl Stein

COYW wrote: »

Unionists gave up a hell of a lot just to coerce the republican movement into giving up their terrorist ways

Complete and utter detachment from reality. Unionists' hatred of democracy and equality was what caused the troubles in the first place. Now they are forced to live with these principles and they simply don't know what to do with themselves other than kick and scream over felgs and marching.

but the republicans lost and are losing more and more as each day passes.

In what alternate reality is this true? Republicans are running rings around Unionists in the north. If the 2-to-1 rate of Catholics v Protestants enrolling in university is anything to go by in the not too distant future the northern institutions will be dominated by the green and not the orange.

Unionist politicians are a pathetic bunch and are only interested in slowing down the inevitable rise of non-Unionists to their rightful positions in the institutions of the north. Some things never change though.

Painted Pony

SoulandForm wrote: »

That was Trimble not Robinson but good post.

I think it was everybody’s favourite republican come West-Brit, Eoghan Harris, who write that line for Trimble.

I am not quite sure what Danny M. is getting at though. Surely there was always a bit of niggle between SF and the DUP. Didn’t the latter only ever engage with the power sharing thing because they realized that this is what their supporters actually wanted? What is substantially different now?

Manassas61

Hannibal wrote: »

Unionism didn't win. They reliquished a hell of a lot of power and it became law that if it wins democratically then a united Ireland is a reality. Unionists were initially happy in the Stormont power sharing but now they can see nationalist parties SF and the SDLP eating away at their outright majority and the balance being held by the Alliance party.

The union flag is gone off Belfast city hall which brought it into line with a lot of other official buildings up there. If you compare the 6 counties now with what existed pre-1970 then it could be argued that the real winners were nationalists/republicans. They got rid of the apartheid gerrymandered protestant country and it's now placed in democracy and equality. There's also self-determination in that everyone born on the island is entitled to an Irish passport. The real problem with unionists is facing upto the fact that nationalists/republicans are now every bit their equal and the political majority is closing.

They can't use the excuse about the IRA anymore for not negotiating and engaging with nationalists/republicans as the IRA decommissioned weapons in 2005. There is still shootings, killings and weapons being held by loyalist paramilitary forces which hasn't been addressed by unionist politicians to the extent that SF addressed the IRA. I see the UVF are being investigated now for organised crime with the PSNI assistant chief constable Drew Harris saying that "the UVF very clearly have involvement in drug dealing, all forms of gangsterism, serious assaults, intimidation of the community".

On the contrary, Unionism DID win. All you have to do is look at the numbers in support of the Union from all polls and the Catholic support for the Union is much higher than support for a United Ireland from Protestants.

Normalization is great for Unionism. The flag on City hall in all reality doesn't mean a whole lot, its just a symbolic thing but it has made absolutely no difference to the place of Northern Ireland within the Union.

The current UVF is practically the same in numbers as Irish Republican Dissidents. They are practically irrelevant as any force.

Manassas61

In what alternate reality is this true? Republicans are running rings around Unionists in the north. If the 2-to-1 rate of Catholics v Protestants enrolling in university is anything to go by in the not too distant future the northern institutions will be dominated by the green and not the orange.

Again, mis leading. Atheism is growing.

The census reveals 48% of the resident population are either Protestant or brought up Protestant, a drop of 5% from the 2001 census. 45% of the resident population are either Catholic or brought up Catholic, an increase of 1%.
7% say they either belong to another religion or none.

The figures published on Tuesday also show 45% of people say they are Catholic - a slight rise since the 2001 census. But the numbers who say they are or were brought up Protestant has fallen by 5% to 48%.
Just over 5% of people in Northern Ireland said they do not belong to any religion.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2012/12/how-to-make-nones-disappear--a-lesson-in-statistics-from-northern-ireland

SoulandForm

Manassas61 wrote: »

The current UVF is practically the same in numbers as Irish Republican Dissidents. They are practically irrelevant as any force.

Provisional Sinn Fein shun the dissidents and the dissidents shun the Provies.

On the other hand both the DUP, the TUV and the Orange Order have shown themselves more than happy to cosy up with the UVF.

karma_

Manassas61 wrote: »

Again, mis leading. Atheism is growing.





http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2012/12/how-to-make-nones-disappear--a-lesson-in-statistics-from-northern-ireland

This is great news. However the DUP and the UUP still act as the political arm of the Orange Order. How is this compatible? Just when will the DUP and the UUP give up that charade and start enacting what they preached for 30 odd years?

Unionism has to separate itself from religion, the problem is I'm not sure they can.

karma_

Manassas61 wrote: »

On the contrary, Unionism DID win.

What did they win? I see this all the time from posters like yourself or COYW. It's just an extension of the old Unionist triumphalism. The true winners were the population of NI whatever they choose for themselves in the future, at the very least we can finally live in peace.

Manassas61

karma_ wrote: »

What did they win? I see this all the time from posters like yourself or COYW. It's just an extension of the old Unionist triumphalism. The true winners were the population of NI whatever they choose for themselves in the future, at the very least we can finally live in peace.

The only way Unionists would go to the peace table and do the Good Friday Agreement was if they remained within the Union. Peace ultimately won but the political ideal of Unionism did win in that the Union is still intact.

People should embrace it. Its not a bad thing.

However the DUP and the UUP still act as the political arm of the Orange Order.

Well I don't think it is relevant if the Order stays around or doesn't because you will always get people in bands. Atheists are allowed in bands, I know PLENTY of them.

karma_

Manassas61 wrote: »

The only way Unionists would go to the peace table and do the Good Friday Agreement was if they remained within the Union. Peace ultimately won but the political ideal of Unionism did win in that the Union is still intact.

You're going to have to stop this we won/you lost mindset. The GFA gave us the right of choice.

This also implies that Unionism would have forgone peace if it meant leaving the Union, which I have to point out is contrary to what they always preached.

SoulandForm

karma_ wrote: »

You're going to have to stop this we won/you lost mindset. The GFA gave us the right of choice.

This also implies that Unionism would have forgone peace if it meant leaving the Union, which I have to point out is contrary to what they always preached.

That is not correct.

Karl Stein

What a prize prick.

Hannibal

COYW wrote: »

I agree with you that Unionists gave up a hell of a lot just to coerce the republican movement into giving up their terrorist ways but the republicans lost and are losing more and more as each day passes. Correct me if I am wrong but the purpose of the whole republican terrorist campaign was to get a UI, wasn't it?

The real terrorist campaign began with unprovoked and sustained attacks by unionists on nationalist people which turned into civil rights movement by nationalists demanding equality. The IRA were almost non existant until 1970 when ordinary people pleaded with the IRA whom they called "I Ran Away" to help defend nationalist areas which the RUC simply weren't bothered with doing. That's how the armed campaign started, the purpose was to defend nationalist areas simple as that. Very few people I know who were involved at the highest level of the republican movement actually thought they would unite Ireland hence why from the early 80's they were trying to get a political settlement. You have to aim higher than your goals to get an acceptable settlement, what resulted was a military stalemate with both Irish republicans and the British state forces accepting that they couldn't defeat each other.

COYW wrote: »

The flag might not fly over city hall 365 days a years but the flag that flies there, is the Union flag. That building, the home of the current mayor, a republican, will be lit up in bright red to honour the fallen with the poppy appeal. Take a look at any independent poll on a UI in NI and you will see that the people are saying 'No', with a huge majority. Republicans are starting to realize that their decades of murder and terrorism, were in vain. This is too much to take for some and they are walking away.

Below is a link to an independent poll called "The Peoples Refendum" which was held in South Armagh on May 25th this year. The poll showed 93% of people in FAVOUR of unity.

So you take a look at this independent poll on a UI in NI and you will see that people said 'Yes' with a huge majority.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-our-grassroots-initiative-shows-high-demand-for-a-border-poll-927617-May2013/

Manassas61

Hannibal wrote: »

The real terrorist campaign began with unprovoked and sustained attacks by unionists on nationalist people which turned into civil rights movement by nationalists demanding equality. The IRA were almost non existant until 1970 when ordinary people pleaded with the IRA whom they called "I Ran Away" to help defend nationalist areas which the RUC simply weren't bothered with doing. That's how the armed campaign started, the purpose was to defend nationalist areas simple as that. Very few people I know who were involved at the highest level of the republican movement actually thought they would unite Ireland hence why from the early 80's they were trying to get a political settlement. You have to aim higher than your goals to get an acceptable settlement, what resulted was a military stalemate with both Irish republicans and the British state forces accepting that they couldn't defeat each other.


Below is a link to an independent poll called "The Peoples Refendum" which was held in South Armagh on May 25th this year. The poll showed 93% of people in FAVOUR of unity.

So you take a look at this independent poll on a UI in NI and you will see that people said 'Yes' with a huge majority.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-our-grassroots-initiative-shows-high-demand-for-a-border-poll-927617-May2013/

if “sufficient demand” for one exists.

There isn't. Case closed.

COYW

Hannibal wrote: »

Below is a link to an independent poll called "The Peoples Refendum" which was held in South Armagh on May 25th this year. The poll showed 93% of people in FAVOUR of unity.

So you take a look at this independent poll on a UI in NI and you will see that people said 'Yes' with a huge majority.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-our-grassroots-initiative-shows-high-demand-for-a-border-poll-927617-May2013/

A this old chestnut, which has been addressed on this forum and shown to be a complete joke. This poll was taken in bandit country. You might as well take one on the Shankill road. It is not a fair reflection on the people of NI, as a whole.

I will use the polls taken by various media sources, canvassing a sample of people from all spectrums of life in NI, as a true reflection of how the people of NI feel, as opposed to this hatchet-job of a poll. Independent, lol!

SoulandForm wrote: »

Provisional Sinn Fein shun the dissidents and the dissidents shun the Provies.

Really, that whole SPAD bill preventing them from giving their terrorist cronies highly paid public sector jobs might suggest otherwise.

SoulandForm

COYW wrote: »

Really, that whole SPAD bill preventing them from giving their terrorist cronies highly paid public sector jobs might suggest otherwise.

Are you seriously suggesting that Provisional Sinn Fein who desiring to fix up the Volunteers of the Real and Continuity IRAs with highly paid public sector jobs? Given how difficult it is for many ex-prisoners to get jobs you would think that Unionists would be pleased that they were been given something to do that would keep them out of trouble so to speak- but when it comes to a toss up between vindictiveness and common sense Unionism always seems to choose the former.

Painted Pony

COYW wrote: »

A this old chestnut, which has been addressed on this forum and shown to be a complete joke. This poll was taken in bandit country. You might as well take one on the Shankill road. It is not a fair reflection on the people of NI, as a whole.

There are problems with any polls in terms of linking what people say they will do and what they actually do but it is a particular problem for the unity question quite simply because people don't know what they are being asked. It is not going to happen any time in the near future so people just don't know the implications of voting one way or another. All they can do is vote the way their tradition dictates, or perhaps try and guess what shape a UI would take.

I wouldn't take any poll, either suggesting support for unity or the opposite, too seriously until it is realistically being proposed.

Richard

Painted Pony wrote: »

There are problems with any polls in terms of linking what people say they will do and what they actually do but it is a particular problem for the unity question quite simply because people don't know what they are being asked. It is not going to happen any time in the near future so people just don't know the implications of voting one way or another. All they can do is vote the way their tradition dictates, or perhaps try and guess what shape a UI would take.

I wouldn't take any poll, either suggesting support for unity or the opposite, too seriously until it is realistically being proposed.

A poll which canvasses opinion throughout NI, ensuring that all ages and political backgrounds are included would be significant. This one wasn't, and the result was a foregone conclusion. Note that the turnout was below 50% (an actual poll would be much higher) and that as much as 7% in an area like that voted no.

Painted Pony

Richard wrote: »

A poll which canvasses opinion throughout NI, ensuring that all ages and political backgrounds are included would be significant. This one wasn't, and the result was a foregone conclusion. Note that the turnout was below 50% (an actual poll would be much higher) and that as much as 7% in an area like that voted no.

Yes, certainly a poll based on a representative sample would be far more credible. But even with that, I still say that there is particular additional problem with this question. You are asking people about a choice they will have to make, possibly in 50 years time!

Many will simply vote tribally. Or nationalists might assume that the obvious economic reasons for not opting for a UI now will remain and say no for this reason. Or they may assume they will somehow go away and vote yes.

Or unionists, at least those not hung up on the constitutional question, might be persuaded if proposals for the new arrangement show real advantages for unionism, such as they being a powerful political block in an Irish parliament.

But of course they don't consider such things because they can't. We have no idea what shape a UI will take.

COYW

Painted Pony wrote: »

There are problems with any polls in terms of linking what people say they will do and what they actually do but it is a particular problem for the unity question quite simply because people don't know what they are being asked.

Have you seen the polls in question? The media based ones, I mean. The question was very straight forward. It asked the individual whether or not they would like a poll on a UI. Simple English, as simple as it gets. If an individual can't grasp that, they shouldn't have a vote.

SoulandForm wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that Provisional Sinn Fein who desiring to fix up the Volunteers of the Real and Continuity IRAs with highly paid public sector jobs? Given how difficult it is for many ex-prisoners to get jobs you would think that Unionists would be pleased that they were been given something to do that would keep them out of trouble so to speak- but when it comes to a toss up between vindictiveness and common sense Unionism always seems to choose the former.

SF appointed Mary McArdle, a convicted republican terrorist, to the position Ministerial Special Adviser to Culture Minister Carál Ní Chuilín. Correct or incorrect?

SoulandForm

COYW wrote: »

SF appointed Mary McArdle, a convicted republican terrorist, to the position Ministerial Special Adviser to Culture Minister Carál Ní Chuilín. Correct or incorrect?

Who supports the peace-process and the PSNI and has nothing to do with the armed militants of today.

Painted Pony

COYW wrote: »

Have you seen the polls in question? The media based ones, I mean. The question was very straight forward. It asked the individual whether or not they would like a poll on a UI. Simple English, as simple as it gets. If an individual can't grasp that, they shouldn't have a vote.

That quite clearly is not the question I am talking about. It is the more substantive one as to which was they would vote if there was a poll. And even the holding of a poll is, I think, still some years away. So they are being asked to consider a question without a context.

Happyman42

COYW wrote: »

I agree with you that Unionists gave up a hell of a lot just to coerce the republican movement into giving up their terrorist ways but the republicans lost and are losing more and more as each day passes. Correct me if I am wrong but the purpose of the whole republican terrorist campaign was to get a UI, wasn't it?

The flag might not fly over city hall 365 days a years but the flag that flies there, is the Union flag. That building, the home of the current mayor, a republican, will be lit up in bright red to honour the fallen with the poppy appeal. Take a look at any independent poll on a UI in NI and you will see that the people are saying 'No', with a huge majority. Republicans are starting to realize that their decades of murder and terrorism, were in vain. This is too much to take for some and they are walking away.

And Unionism still hasn't come to terms in a mature way with the fact that 'The Union' that they thought they were embedded in will not defend it when a majority vote to unify with the ROI.
N.I., having failed as a state and needing the intervention of the ROI and The British (not to mention American and other world government influence) is in a unique state of limbo now. It is up to the whole island now, without outside impediment, to find a way forward. The sooner some realise that the better. Allowing Stormont to fail would be to blow both feet off from a Unionist perspective.

SoulandForm

COYW wrote: »

Have you seen the polls in question? The media based ones, I mean. The question was very straight forward. It asked the individual whether or not they would like a poll on a UI. Simple English, as simple as it gets. If an individual can't grasp that, they shouldn't have a vote.

Over all I want a united Ireland BUT if asked do I want want tomorrow I would come close to saying no- not that Im happy with the union. If it happened tomorrow Loyalists would probably go on a mad spree of destruction and given one of your replies to Junder I would seriously dread people in Dublin who think along your lines having any power in the six counties. A period of majority nationalist rule over Northern Ireland while it remains in the UK may well be a necesscity.

Manassas61

SoulandForm wrote: »

Who supports the peace-process and the PSNI and has nothing to do with the armed militants of today.

Peace process is fine. A shrine is just not needed. I am glad the project is gone.

Hannibal

COYW wrote: »

Really, that whole SPAD bill preventing them from giving their terrorist cronies highly paid public sector jobs might suggest otherwise.

these people were released under the GFA and recognised as Political prisoners (not "terrorists"). They haven't committed any crimes since they were released so they are fully entitled to gain employment within politics if they are suitably qualified.
Why wait 15 years to pass a bill on it? maybe it has something to do with Belast city hall, the parades and loyalist rioting. The unionists obviously saw this as an opportunity to get what they think is one over on republicans, this bill was rejected not only by Sinn Fein but the Greens and the Alliance Party and the bill would have been defeated overall if the SDLP hadn't wanted to engage with point scoring over Sinn Fein due to the fact the SDLP are fading into obscurity.

FTA69

Hannibal wrote: »

Below is a link to an independent poll called "The Peoples Refendum" which was held in South Armagh on May 25th this year. The poll showed 93% of people in FAVOUR of unity.

So you take a look at this independent poll on a UI in NI and you will see that people said 'Yes' with a huge majority.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-our-grassroots-initiative-shows-high-demand-for-a-border-poll-927617-May2013/

In fairness Crossmaglen is a fiercely Republican village. The opinion of a thousand people in South Armagh doesn't reflect the views of the Six Counties as a whole.

Hannibal

FTA69 wrote: »

In fairness Crossmaglen is a fiercely Republican village. The opinion of a thousand people in South Armagh doesn't reflect the views of the Six Counties as a whole.

i'm well aware of that but the other poster said "take a look at any independent poll" so I showed that one as example. The reality is any towns or areas close to the border including Newry, Derry, Strabane and Enniskillen would produce a similar majority vote but obviously not 93%

Godge

Hannibal wrote: »

i'm well aware of that but the other poster said "take a look at any independent poll" so I showed that one as example. The reality is any towns or areas close to the border including Newry, Derry, Strabane and Enniskillen would produce a similar majority vote but obviously not 93%

Calling a poll an independent poll doesn't make it accurate or independent.

If there was an independent poll of 1,000 people entering the doors of the Sinn Fein Ard Feis, you would probably get around 94% in favour of unity.

Hannibal

Godge wrote: »

Calling a poll an independent poll doesn't make it accurate or independent.

If there was an independent poll of 1,000 people entering the doors of the Sinn Fein Ard Feis, you would probably get around 94% in favour of unity.

That particular poll was a mock referendum, it was independent and it was accurate in the area in which it was held. Although the area is a strong republican area and the result predictable their voice is still entitled to be heard.

To be honest if you held a poll entering a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis it would be a fair bit higher than 94%

Manassas61

There is over 1 and a half million people in Northern Ireland. Could be 2 million before any such border poll happens. It's what the overall majority think.

SoulandForm

[QUOTE=Manassas61;86891624]Peace process is fine. A shrine is just not needed. I am glad the project is gone.[/QUOTE]

I dont think you have a clue about what the Hunger Strikes mean to a large proportion of the NI population (actually Unicorns included but we will get into the whys and hows of that later); you go to the measum in Enniskillen in the old castle and you can just see the basis towards the "British" side. Destroying that wing wont be seen as stopping a "shrine"- it will be seen as trying to wipe out a major part of the history of Northern Ireland because it belongs to the other "tribe".

The fact is that Unionists are completely freaked out by the Hunger Strikes both because deep down they realize that the measures that led to them they supported and so they themselves prolonged the troubles and have blood on their hands because of that. Than there is the fact that the Hunger Strikers showed tremendous moral purpose and proved by their will power that they were not just common or garden murderers.

We have never had a real peace process in Northern Ireland. The complete failure of so many Republicans to get inside Unionist shoes and really start persuading the many, many unionists who are not bad people at all speaks to that- as those your own failure to in any try to see things from the point of view of the Catholic population.

This might surprise you but I am very annoyed by this commemoration of the Shankhill Road bomber.