Birth Index

jos28

I am looking for a Michael Evans born c1880, probably from Drumcondra, father is James Evans. I can't find anything online for him. I have a couple of birth details taken from the indexes at GRO with the right surname but no first name given.
1878 Male DN (March Q) V2 P615
1878 Male DN (June Q) V2 P580
1878 Male DN (June Q) V2 P638
1881 Male DN (March Q) V2 P533

Is going into the GRO and ordering the certs the only way to find out if any of the above refer to the man I am looking for ?

shanew

jos28 wrote: »

...
Is going into the GRO and ordering the certs the only way to find out if any of the above refer to the man I am looking for ?

yes, but the cert will just have 'Male' for the name. You might be able to match up based on father's name, occupation and address if you know that..

I think much of Drumcondra would have been covered by St. Paul's (Arran quay) at that time. Might be worth checking RootsIreland for a possible baptism. The child would have been given a name by then.

jos28

Thanks Shane, I'll give that a go.

jos28

Not a happy bunny, had a very unproductive day at the City Archives and the GRO. I couldn't find Michael Evans on the 1901 online, it became apparent that Tolka Cottages (his address at the time of marriage) was not digitilised. So off I went to look at the film, 39 families there in the cottages and his wasn't one of them

Then I walked all the way to Werburgh St, ordered the birth certs that might be him and no luck there either. Certs at €4 a go and limited to 5 records. Ridiculous !! There has to be an easier way to research than that.

shanew

At least you've ruled Tolka cottages 1901, and those possible birth registrations out - only way to be 100% sure they dont tie in.

It's looking like there was no civil birth registration for your Michael, so parish records are probably the only hope for anything earlier...

presume this is your Michael in 1911 ...

have you any clues as to any siblings for Michael ?

L1011

GRO are going to put their own, better, indices online at some point. Hopefully as there'll be no human involvement (the records are captured already) they can offer research copies cheaper via that.

jos28

shanew wrote: »

At least you've ruled Tolka cottages 1901, and those possible birth registrations out - only way to be 100% sure they dont tie in.

It's looking like there was no civil birth registration for your Michael, so parish records are probably the only hope for anything earlier...

presume this is your Michael in 1911 ...

have you any clues as to any siblings for Michael ?

That's him alright, unfortunately I don't have any sibling names yet. According to his marriage cert, his parents are James and Kate Evans. That's all I have to go on.

shanew

jos28 wrote: »

That's him alright, unfortunately I don't have any sibling names yet. According to his marriage cert, his parents are James and Kate Evans. That's all I have to go on.

year is a little out, was this extracted record one of the ones you've checked out ?

Name : Male Evans
Place of birth : 679, NO 4, Dublin
Birth Date : 20 Oct 1869
Parents : James Evans & Kate Brewster

shanew

maybe not ... that couple seem to be CofI...

marriage of James Evans and Catherine Brewster
St. Marks, CofI, Dublin city

there's also a James Evans / Catherine Fleming couple in Dublin at around the right time, but they are CofI also..

jos28

I didn't check that one Shane. I reckoned the date was too far back. I thought this one might be an option but it's hard to tell without Michael's birth details
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/75e8130562741

shanew

I was just going on parents names - might have been an older brother...

did the parish record mention his mother's name ?

the one you've posted is another CofI - dont think that would fit.

shanew

here's an RC baptism for a possible younger brother... in Latin. Parish is Rathmines

Baptism of Paul Henry Evans - 1879
Parents James Evans & Catherine Byrne

residence is Cullenswood (Ranelagh), southside of Dublin, but that was Co. Dublin.. so it's possible your Michael may have moved later for work etc

shanew

and just to add to the puzzle, spotted this RC Evans/Fleming baptism - so maybe that couple I mentioned earlier were a mixed marriage ?

Baptism of Joseph John Evans - 1871
St. Andrews RC, Dublin city

jos28

AFAIK there were 4 brothers, I would presume the first born would be James. That could be them alright, although my late Mam wouldn't be too happy to have South Siders in her blood - she was a pure Northsider according to herself

shanew

just posting this 1901 census due to the location (close to Tolka cottages) and mother's name - no sign of a Michael, so not even sure there's any connection...

Evans household Drumcondra

jos28

I spotted that on the film today and took the details because I thought it could be them alright. If the groom's father was dead at the time of the wedding (1902)would his name still be on the marriage cert. Should it say deceased ?

shanew

jos28 wrote: »

I spotted that on the film today and took the details because I thought it could be them alright. If the groom's father was dead at the time of the wedding (1902)would his name still be on the marriage cert. Should it say deceased ?

Father's name should be on the civil cert either way, but these dont always mention if the father is deceased or not. Depends on the way the question was asked by the priest. As far as I remember there was no occupation on the civil cert you posted a while ago... often an indication that the father was deceased.

p.s. the John C. Evans seems to turn up in Cork on the 1911 as a musician !

shanew

just in case you want to try a tangent and check for father's name on John C.'s marriage - these are the likely Index details :

Name: John Evans
Quarter Year : Jan-Mar 1904
Registration District: Cork
Volume: 5 / Page : 112

A Frances Ryan appears with the same details....

1911 census for John, Frances their children and some of her family

jos28

Thanks Shane, it's worth a try. Thanks for all your help (yet again) !

shanew

I had a v. quick look on IrishGenealogy for possible records for the Evans family at Glenarm Ave., but haven't found anything promising so far... they might have lived just outside the city...

worth following up - if only to eliminate as possible matches

tenterfields

Re the Evans family at Glenarm Ave in 1901, they are in my family tree. I don't think they are the family you are looking for. Catherine Evans was the widow of Thomas Evans, a musician, who died in 1885. Catherine and Thomas had five children, three of whom (Annie, Patrick and John C) are listed on the 1901 census return. The two missing children are Rosine, who married in 1893 and Mary who died in 1875. There was no Michael. Catherine's maiden name was McKenna and Mary McKenna on the 1901 return was, as stated, her sister. Shane is correct regarding John C. He appears to have moved to Cork where he married Frances Ryan in 1904.

jos28

Thanks a million Tenterfields, I'm glad to have all that information, sounds like an interesting family tree !
It's seems unlikely that there is a connection. Do you have birth details for Thomas ? I presume he is not a brother of James (Michael's father)

tanoralover

I don't know if or how this is related but there are entries for John and Michael Evans in the Irish Prison Registers.

Name: Michael Evans
Date: June 3rd 1901
Age: 21
Born: Coolock
Address: Tolka Cottages
Next of Kin: mother Julia, same address
Religion: RC
Marital status: single
Crime: Threatening behavior
Sentence: 1 month

Name: John Evans
Date: 1906
Age: 18
Address: Tolka Cottages
Next of Kin: father Michael

Name: John Evans
Date: 1906
Age: 18
Born: Coolock
Address: Tolka Cottages
Next of Kin: mother Mary

Based on the physical description I'd say the two Johns are the same man.

Edit: There is a possible marriage for James Evans and Julia Gill in Dublin North in 1876.

jos28

The plot thickens Tanora !!
I am hoping that Michael the jailbird is my G Grandfather's cousin and not my G Grandad
I found a marriage cert for Patrick Dillon and Julia Evans in 1901. The bride's parents were Julia and William Evans, 2 Tolka Cottages. I am even more confused now. Were there 2 families called Evans there ? If there were so many Evan's living there why are they not showing up on the census. I'm going to email a man called Louis O'Flaherty who wrote a fabulous book about Drumcondra to see if he knows of any problems with the census.

tanoralover

jos28 wrote: »

The plot thickens Tanora !!
I am hoping that Michael the jailbird is my G Grandfather's cousin and not my G Grandad

I'd be hoping the opposite given how little you know about him prior to 1902. There are a dozen records for Fitzpatricks (Andrew, Augustine, Chris, Thomas) in the same collection.

jos28 wrote: »

I found a marriage cert for Patrick Dillon and Julia Evans in 1901. The bride's parents were Julia and William Evans, 2 Tolka Cottages. I am even more confused now. Were there 2 families called Evans there ? If there were so many Evan's living there why are they not showing up on the census.

According to this post Mrs Ellen Day from 31 Tolka Cottages was also an Evans from Laois. I don't envy you having to untangle all these families!

tanoralover

Evans and Fitzpatrick families are mentioned in this article.

jos28

I know, it's going to take some figuring out ! That article is brilliant, my brothers will be chuffed with that. Many thanks indeed. I managed to find a photo of the last of the cottages - taken in 1954

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So glad I started this thread, so many helpful people with lots of information - thanks

tenterfields

Jos28
Thomas Evans was born in 1831 and baptised in St Andrew's parish. His father was John Evans, mother Margaret (maiden name unknown). The only siblings I have found for Thomas are Henry (born 1833) and John (born 1835). No James, I'm afraid.

jos28

Thanks Tenterfields, at least that's one group sorted. There seems to be so many of them, gonna take a while to unravel.