Engine Damaged - Warranty?

IK09

Hi Everyone,

My boss bought a car 5 months ago and he had a six month warranty/mileage warranty. Which he has gone over on the mileage side

He broke down on the motorway on Wednesday and had the car towed to the dealer he bought it off.
He was told today that a bearing on the crank shaft shot up and damaged the engine! From what the mechanic said there is now a hole in the engine.

Anyway what do you reckon his position is? He is asking that they allow him the amount he spent on the car against another vehicle in their lot. I think this is a reasonable enough position to take.

Opinions? Past experience? Anything?

Anan1

The warranty has expired but, depending on the car/circumstances, he may have some redress under consumer legislation. IMO what he is asking is entirely unreasonable, given that he has owned and been using the car for 5 months.

IK09

He didnt do anything out of the ordinary with the car, he was using it for the purpose it was intended to be used.
(just a little history, he has been in and out to the dealer with a number of minor issues such as sensor faults and window regulators going)
Id say that a part of the car was faulty (the crank shaft) and through its fault, major damage to the car occurred.

I would presume that because of this he is entitled to some form of redress under consumer law. Im not sure, thats why im asking.

Gary ITR

IK09 wrote: »

Id say that a part of the car was faulty (the crank shaft) and through its fault, major damage to the car occurred.

What are you basing that on?

How much mileage has he put on it? What car is it?

IK09

Thats based on what the mechanic said to him, that a bearing went and shot up into the engine. 16,000km Sangyong Rexton.

Gary ITR

IK09 wrote: »

Thats based on what the mechanic said to him, that a bearing went and shot up into the engine. 16,000km Sangyong Rexton.

What are you basing your opinion of the part being faulty on?

A faulty crank or baring wouldn't last 16k kms. Was it serviced? Had it run low on oil? With that mileage on the dealer could rightly tell him to jog on

bear1

What sort of engine is it? what year is it? What's the total amount of KM on it?
Ssangyong source their engines from Mercedes so mechanically they should be strong.
Bearings are usually made from copper and I think lead so they need a good deal of clean lubrication (clean oil) to provide the protection they need, if he had dirty oil (not servicing) then the bearings may get damaged.
For me the bearing failure points to an oil issue.

IK09

Gary ITR wrote: »

What are you basing your opinion of the part being faulty on?

A faulty crank or baring wouldn't last 16k kms. Was it serviced? Had it run low on oil? With that mileage on the dealer could rightly tell him to jog on

My opinion that the part was faulty is based on it shooting a bearing into the engine. Surely it is not designed to do so. The last service was 16000km ago when he bought it(it had a full service history from the garage he got it from). there was 60000km on it when he bought it. Its a 07 diesel, im unsure on the size or type the engine.

dantastic

Has that one not got a 10,000km service interval?

mickdw

Best thing to do is source an engine.
Dealer will possibly allow him something over what its actually worth if he is to trade it in for something in stock but as is the way with these things, the dealer will have most of this cost added back in anyway.

mickdw

Best thing to do is source an engine.
Dealer will possibly allow him something over what its actually worth if he is to trade it in for something in stock but as is the way with these things, the dealer will have most of this cost added back in anyway.

Voodoomelon

What was the figure on the mileage warranty?

lomb

Rexton are known for dud engines. Not sure what the problem with them is but many let go with only a few k km on them.

JohnBoy26

IK09 wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

My boss bought a car 5 months ago and he had a six month warranty/mileage warranty. Which he has gone over on the mileage side

He broke down on the motorway on Wednesday and had the car towed to the dealer he bought it off.
He was told today that a bearing on the crank shaft shot up and damaged the engine! From what the mechanic said there is now a hole in the engine.

Anyway what do you reckon his position is? He is asking that they allow him the amount he spent on the car against another vehicle in their lot. I think this is a reasonable enough position to take.

Opinions? Past experience? Anything?

No I think a repair is all he is likely to get given the circumstances. This would be beyond reasonable Imo considering his warranty is out.

ofcork

Is that the case as merc used the engine in a lot of their cars and suvs before they replaced it with the 3 litre diesel.

JohnBoy26

bear1 wrote: »

What sort of engine is it? what year is it? What's the total amount of KM on it?
Ssangyong source their engines from Mercedes so mechanically they should be strong.
Bearings are usually made from copper and I think lead so they need a good deal of clean lubrication (clean oil) to provide the protection they need, if he had dirty oil (not servicing) then the bearings may get damaged.
For me the bearing failure points to an oil issue.

I don't think ssang yong source their engines from Mercedes. I think they make their own engines which are made under license from Mercedes.

mickdw

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

I don't think ssang yong source their engines from Mercedes. I think they make their own engines which are made under license from Mercedes.

Yes I think that is correct and there is a hell of a difference between a mercedes engine and a copy of a mercedes engine built in Korea

lomb

Someone I know rebuilt a Rexton which had a bad engine and told me if the wrong oil is used they seize. Ive seen his driving about recently with plumes of smoke so its obviously failing again after rebuild a few years and low miles on.

bear1

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

I don't think ssang yong source their engines from Mercedes. I think they make their own engines which are made under license from Mercedes.

http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/used/ssangyong/rexton-4x4/summary/23734-3

They are Mercedes engines... not sure if they still use them though

visual

bear1 wrote: »

http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/used/ssangyong/rexton-4x4/summary/23734-3

They are Mercedes engines... not sure if they still use them though

No there not Mercedes engines. They dont use Mercedes parts either or assembled in Mercedes factory. The engine design is Mercedes and Ssangyong build the engine under license using their own processes and materials.

In essence they got permission to copy the Mercedes engine.

Gary ITR

IK09 wrote: »

My opinion that the part was faulty is based on it shooting a bearing into the engine. Surely it is not designed to do so. The last service was 16000km ago when he bought it(it had a full service history from the garage he got it from). there was 60000km on it when he bought it. Its a 07 diesel, im unsure on the size or type the engine.

No it's not designed to do that but there cold have been other factors at play. Saying it was serviced 16k kms ago doesn't answer if it ran low on oil. For example VW think it's ok for a 1.9TDI to go throgh a litre of oil ever 1k kms.

Was the car regularly checked for oil? Low oil would certainly case the engine to throw a leg out. I wouldn't expect a 16k km warranty on a 6 year old car either tbh

bear1

Ah ok, I presumed from reading some websites that Mercedes were supplying the engines as they have a strategic partnership together

Renegade Mechanic

If there is a hole in the block, then a Con Rod (Connecting rod between the crankshaft and piston) has snapped.

A: The piston, pushing back on its end of the rod during the compression stroke and the crank, pushing its end up leads to the rod being forced out through the engine wall.

B: The rod swings untill it is caught between the Crank and the cylinder wall and is forced by the rotating crankshaft through it.

In any case, this does not happen overnight. Usually, months before the conrod is bent by something and slowly but surely bends just a little more on each compression stroke until it snaps. Generally, the cause is water ingress. Fluid cannot be compressed so something else has to give. There are two possibilities here. That your boss may have tried and failed to navigate a flood or that the garage knowingly (or unknowingly, youd be surprised what unscrupulous trade in customers will take a chance on...) sold a car that had taken in fluid.
Either way, Im afraid its impossible to prove now.

IK09

Hey guys, sorry to bring this up again(forgot about the thread) but the garage said they would source and install a new engine, after about a week they couldnt find a suitable donor so they ended up replacing the car with a skoda octavia of approx the same value. They accepted that they (probably for reputational purposes) couldnt have a client out a car. I went up to them to look at appropriate replacements and they were extremely open about everything. They seem like proper business people and I would definitely deal with them in future

Anan1

IK09 wrote: »

Hey guys, sorry to bring this up again(forgot about the thread) but the garage said they would source and install a new engine, after about a week they couldnt find a suitable donor so they ended up replacing the car with a skoda octavia of approx the same value. They accepted that they (probably for reputational purposes) couldnt have a client out a car. I went up to them to look at appropriate replacements and they were extremely open about everything. They seem like proper business people and I would definitely deal with them in future

I have to say I'm surprised (and impressed) by that.

djimi

Fair play, nice to hear a story of good customer service like this.

mickdw

Can we name the dealer?

OREGATO

Name the dealer, sounds like they really looked after him.

Vicxas

Wow, thats an amazing outcome.

dr.fuzzenstein

IK09 wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

My boss bought a car 5 months ago and he had a six month warranty/mileage warranty. Which he has gone over on the mileage side

He broke down on the motorway on Wednesday and had the car towed to the dealer he bought it off.
He was told today that a bearing on the crank shaft shot up and damaged the engine! From what the mechanic said there is now a hole in the engine.

Anyway what do you reckon his position is? He is asking that they allow him the amount he spent on the car against another vehicle in their lot. I think this is a reasonable enough position to take.

Opinions? Past experience? Anything?

Can't say I'm surprised they replaced the car, in case people haven't read the OP properly:
He bough a car with a SIX month warranty FIVE months ago.
He may have gone over the mileage side, but that would have sounded like a flimsy excuse from the garage.
Reading back on this thread I cannot believe just how many people said "NO, your fault, garage don't owe you spit, etc..." and other such drivel.
It explains the attitude to customer service in Ireland, "I'm not sure and don't possess all the facts, so I'm going to say NO! without even thinking about it".
Stop, look, listen!

listermint

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Can't say I'm surprised they replaced the car, in case people haven't read the OP properly:
He bough a car with a SIX month warranty FIVE months ago.
He may have gone over the mileage side, but that would have sounded like a flimsy excuse from the garage.
Reading back on this thread I cannot believe just how many people said "NO, your fault, garage don't owe you spit, etc..." and other such drivel.
It explains the attitude to customer service in Ireland, "I'm not sure and don't possess all the facts, so I'm going to say NO! without even thinking about it".
Stop, look, listen!

Id imagine it was Mileage or Time limit (whatever comes first) so in fairness you are wrong.

biko

mickdw wrote: »

Can we name the dealer?

Aye, go ahead

dr.fuzzenstein

listermint wrote: »

Id imagine it was Mileage or Time limit (whatever comes first) so in fairness you are wrong.

If he didn't exceed it by a massive amount, it would only be reasonable to expect the garage to honour the warranty, courts have found that warranties are one thing, but that goods should also last a reasonable amount of time.
Consumer rights are separate from any warranty offered, so if something breaks after a short period of time, the sub-clause in the warranty stating that in this case there's no comeback may be null and void.

Anan1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If he didn't exceed it by a massive amount, it would only be reasonable to expect the garage to honour the warranty

Eh, no it wouldn't. A car is either in warranty or it isn't, and in this case it wasn't.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

courts have found that warranties are one thing, but that goods should also last a reasonable amount of time.

That's true, but it has nothing to do with the warranty.

dr.fuzzenstein

Anan1 wrote: »

Eh, no it wouldn't. A car is either in warranty or it isn't, and in this case it wasn't.

That's true, but it has nothing to do with the warranty.

That's exactly my point, consumer rights supercede warranty. If something doesn't last what could be reasonably expected, it has to be fixed.
This does maybe apply more to the manufacturer than the dealer, but my point is that warranty is an extra nicety and has no bearing on the consumers statutory rights.

edit:
I guess the dealer did do it as a nicety, but if I heard about it, I would say "Fair play to that dealer" and would probably go there myself.
If however someone told me "I bought a car at Anan1 car dealers and one day after the warranty the engine exploded and he just told me to fcuk off", i would think twice before going down there, it would automatically sound like a place that is only to eager to take your money, but otherwise wouldn't give you the steam off their piss.
I take it you don't front a successful, customer oriented business, do you?
The company I work in is expanding rapidly.
Why?
Because we don't tell people "your support ran out yesterday, fcuk off!"

mickdw

Anybody else think its odd how the OP started the thread talking about their boss having bought the troublesome car and now today, they say they themselves went into garage to pick out a replacement etc.

bucketybuck

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Can't say I'm surprised they replaced the car, in case people haven't read the OP properly:
He bough a car with a SIX month warranty FIVE months ago.
He may have gone over the mileage side, but that would have sounded like a flimsy excuse from the garage.
Reading back on this thread I cannot believe just how many people said "NO, your fault, garage don't owe you spit, etc..." and other such drivel.
It explains the attitude to customer service in Ireland, "I'm not sure and don't possess all the facts, so I'm going to say NO! without even thinking about it".
Stop, look, listen!

So much rubbish, so little time, so its probably best to just note that you don't know what you are talking about and leave it at that.

dr.fuzzenstein

bucketybuck wrote: »

So much rubbish, so little time, so its probably best to just note that you don't know what you are talking about and leave it at that.

That was a coherent, logical, devastating and irrefutable rebuttal.
No, wait. it wasn't. Just you saying "isn't" hasn't been an argument since kindergarten.

bucketybuck

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That was a coherent, logical, devastating and irrefutable rebuttal.
No, wait. it wasn't. Just you saying "isn't" hasn't been an argument since kindergarten.

If I had any belief that you would listen to the words, then I would take my two decades of experience processing main dealer warranty claims and clearly point out where you are wrong with regard to dealer warranty.

But lets face it, your opinion is firmly rooted in the Joe Duffy "customer is always right no matter what" mindset and we both know it isn't going to change no matter what I say.

So I'll just say this. If you really want to learn something new today, take a look at this quote from you:

He bough a car with a SIX month warranty FIVE months ago.
He may have gone over the mileage side

On one hand you loudly shout that the car is within the contracted six month warranty agreement, while at the same time you blissfully want to ignore the mileage aspect of the contracted warranty agreement. It speaks volumes about your understanding of the issues involved, and unfortunately I do not think I am capable of changing that.

dr.fuzzenstein

bucketybuck wrote: »

If I had any belief that you would listen to the words, then I would take my two decades of experience processing main dealer warranty claims and clearly point out where you are wrong with regard to dealer warranty.

But lets face it, your opinion is firmly rooted in the Joe Duffy "customer is always right no matter what" mindset and we both know it isn't going to change no matter what I say.

So I'll just say this. If you really want to learn something new today, take a look at this quote from you:
On one hand you loudly shout that the car is within the contracted six month warranty agreement, while at the same time you blissfully want to ignore the mileage aspect of the contracted warranty agreement. It speaks volumes about your understanding of the issues involved, and unfortunately I do not think I am capable of changing that.

Well, as is evident from this thread, some dealers take the "warranty ran out yesterday, fcuk off" approach and other dealers take another approach.
Customer service is about more than just telling customers to take a hike.
I know that customer service is a relatively new concept in Ireland, just visit any plumber's shop, builder's yard and, yes, a lot of car dealerships and you're greeted (or rather ignored) by monosyllabic, surly people who clearly have better things to do than to look after customers, who are preventing them from running a business.
Abundantly evident by sh*tty attitudes to ANY thread where people talk about warranty issues.

bucketybuck

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, as is evident from this thread, some dealers take the "warranty ran out yesterday, fcuk off" approach and other dealers take another approach.
Customer service is about more than just telling customers to take a hike.
I know that customer service is a relatively new concept in Ireland, just visit any plumber's shop, builder's yard and, yes, a lot of car dealerships and you're greeted (or rather ignored) by monosyllabic, surly people who clearly have better things to do than to look after customers, who are preventing them from running a business.
Abundantly evident by sh*tty attitudes to ANY thread where people talk about warranty issues.

The chip on your shoulder is made even more pronounced by the fact that you chose to rant about all this in a thread where it appears the dealer in question went above and beyond in keeping the customer happy.

IK09

The Dealer is Monaghan & Sons, Tuam Road, Galway

http://www.monaghans.ie/contentv3/