todays votes

pilate 1

just back from voting.a bit stunned to see a copy of the new testament sandwiched between two piles of voting slips!i never noticed this before,though the poling clerk said its always there.what happened to division of church and state?i have no real objection ,but why not a copy of the koran per say? just a thought!

Johnboy1951

pilate 1 wrote: »

just back from voting.a bit stunned to see a copy of the new testament sandwiched between two piles of voting slips!i never noticed this before,though the poling clerk said its always there.what happened to division of church and state?i have no real objection ,but why not a copy of the koran per say? just a thought!

They have a copy of the bible there for official purposes? ...... not just something one of the clerks brought in?

How weird .....

pilate 1

there as a matter of policy(whose i dont know) according to the clerk

angelfire9

Its government policy all presiding officers get them with their ballot papers & boxes
It's for where there is a question over identity

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055584078

Source: My mother is a presiding officer in town

Pumpkinseeds

I voted just before lunch, there seems to be a very low turnout so far. The ballot papers could've been clearer, I had to really stare at it to see which was which, I'd say there'll be a few mistakes made as a result of the way the forms are laid out.

Clareman

pilate 1 wrote: »

just back from voting.a bit stunned to see a copy of the new testament sandwiched between two piles of voting slips!i never noticed this before,though the poling clerk said its always there.what happened to division of church and state?i have no real objection ,but why not a copy of the koran per say? just a thought!

There's a copy of the bible in every hotel room as well, people don't object to it, I guess it's just whatever the most "popular" religion is that gets it's book in.

Nevermind_

Clareman wrote: »

There's a copy of the bible in every hotel room as well, people don't object to it, I guess it's just whatever the most "popular" religion is that gets it's book in.

they're placed there by gideons not as part of any law as far as I remember

http://www.thejournal.ie/explainer-why-are-there-bibles-in-hotel-rooms-516873-Jul2012/

Johnboy1951

Clareman wrote: »

There's a copy of the bible in every hotel room as well, people don't object to it, I guess it's just whatever the most "popular" religion is that gets it's book in.

Hotels are commercial enterprises ...... they get to make choices how to run their business.

How you can attempt to compare them with polling stations is beyond me.

Obliq

pilate 1 wrote: »

just back from voting.a bit stunned to see a copy of the new testament sandwiched between two piles of voting slips!i never noticed this before,though the poling clerk said its always there.what happened to division of church and state?i have no real objection ,but why not a copy of the koran per say? just a thought!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86858918&postcount=1

This should explain things. I didn't notice and only saw this after voting today, so missed asking why it was there! I have a massive problem with how church and state aren't separated in Ireland, having been atheist all my life. Stuff like this really gets my goat, like try being a primary school teacher with no religion in this country.....or don't bother, more to the point. :mad:

Palmach

pilate 1 wrote: »

just back from voting.a bit stunned to see a copy of the new testament sandwiched between two piles of voting slips!i never noticed this before,though the poling clerk said its always there.what happened to division of church and state?i have no real objection ,but why not a copy of the koran per say? just a thought!

It is a Christian country hence the bible.

Obliq

Palmach wrote: »

It is a Christian country hence the bible.

No, sorry. It's a secular country, as per our constitution. Hence the problem with a bible, and nothing else.

Palmach

Obliq wrote: »

No, sorry. It's a secular country, as per our constitution. Hence the problem with a bible, and nothing else.

Read the preamble. We can't have every book for every Ton, Dick and Harry in every polling booth. The overwhelming majority people in this country and not to mention Clare are Christian. Non-Christians can take an affirmation.

Obliq

Palmach wrote: »

Read the preamble. We can't have every book for every Ton, Dick and Harry in every polling booth. The overwhelming majority people in this country and not to mention Clare are Christian. Non-Christians can take an affirmation.

Oh cheers, that's good of you. Oh wait....you're not the only one in charge, so what you have there with your 'every tom, dick and harry' is an opinion.

The impression that leaving out a bible gives, is that there is only one 'right' religion, and if you aren't in it, then you'll have to ask the polling officers what to do. Yes there is an affirmation for non-christians, but what does having the bible only on full view say to us all? To me, it says that our secular state, where every religious belief is supposed to be treated equally (particularly, you would think, in matters of state such as a referendum) treats we of other faiths and none, no more equally than our education system does. That's why it's an issue. Clearly doesn't bother you any, but it bothers me. I would be more comfortable if the only piece of literature on display was an affirmation that would cover everybody considering our supposed equality in laws of state.

This is all beside the point - if someone would be willing to lie about their identity, you might as well get them to do a handstand to prove they are who they say they are. Bible or whatever you're having yourself - not worth a curse/swear at the end of the day.

Johnboy1951

While I am not upset about the presence of the bible, I do, most strenuously, believe that the sooner we get rid of it, or any other 'religious symbol' in matters of law, the more equal we will all be.

Obliq

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

While I am not upset about the presence of the bible, I do, most strenuously, believe that the sooner we get rid of it, or any other 'religious symbol' in matters of law, the more equal we will all be.

Put so much more simply and clearly than I did, nice one :-) There's a discussion on this going on in A&A for the last while, and it's an interesting read, whichever your feelings are on it. I agree with you though - there's no place for religious symbolism in state matters or law. The "special place" that the RCC held in our constitution was struck out years ago.

buck65

Religion is daft. Chewing gum for the soul Ted.

periodictable

Should be no religious crap of any description there.

Clareman

Really can't see a regional slant on this so I'm locking this.