Building a Bartop

Steve X2

So I've decided to build a bartop during the next month or so. I'm going to cheat a bit and just get some standard bartop plans online, mod them a little and get them cut out. The main focus will be on the internals and trying to end up with a non tacky finished product (or as non tacky as you can get a bartop).

I'm doing some research on making a rotatable screen but it seems like its a real pain and the end product would end up not looking so great so its probably going to be a hori screen on this one.

So, as a few of you have built these are there any pitfalls i should try avoid?
I'd love to stick a crt in there but realistically I'll go with a 19" 4:3 LCD and an SLG. I'm going to build a mini pc from scratch to install inside this thing so it'll be a Hyperspin/MAME machine to begin with (maybe JAMMA after the main unit is built).

Myrddin

Will be following this closely, when I move my own cabs on I think I'll want something I can have indoors for arcade goodness. A bartop makes the most sense...it's just I@m useless with cutting & designing wood etc

Steve X2

EnterNow wrote: »

Will be following this closely, when I move my own cabs on I think I'll want something I can have indoors for arcade goodness. A bartop makes the most sense...it's just I@m useless with cutting & designing wood etc

Me too, thats why I'm just going to spend the cash (and not so much really) to have the woodwork all done for me.

At least I can re-design an existing nice bartop and only worry about the internals and the artwork/paint/marquee of the outside. As is my way it's not going to be a job for existing parts so I'll be ordering a mini-itx motherboard that has quite a bit of power and then a dual hdd option like my candy cab hyperspin setup (1 SSD drive for the OS and MAME and Hyperspin and a second decent 2 or 3TB drive for the bulk of the other Hyperpsin stuff that I mostly don't use, but still want).
I just wish getting a 13/14" crt in there was an option. But with the size and weight and the fact its my first go at bartop I think the LCD and an SLG will be ok this time.

Myrddin

Steve SI wrote: »

Me too, thats why I'm just going to spend the cash (and not so much really) to have the woodwork all done for me.

Have you had any prices yet on the cost of the wood & cutting? The chap I bought the Gunblade cab off had a nice ash effect bartop that was simple but very effective. I think he got it from someone in the main forum, would love to get something similar to that as painting & artwork wouldn't be my cup of tea.

The internals & wiring though is where I'd enjoy setting up, though I won't go down the road of high end equipment, once I can run the 90's games that'll be enough for me

Steve X2

EnterNow wrote: »

Have you had any prices yet on the cost of the wood & cutting? The chap I bought the Gunblade cab off had a nice ash effect bartop that was simple but very effective. I think he got it from someone in the main forum, would love to get something similar to that as painting & artwork wouldn't be my cup of tea.

The internals & wiring though is where I'd enjoy setting up, though I won't go down the road of high end equipment, once I can run the 90's games that'll be enough for me

I've had a look around locally and online. I recently purchased some bits from ArcadeForge in Germany and noticed they sell a very nice bartop kit. It's 99 Euro(which is a bit much for just the wood i think) for the mdf cut and primed. But with shipping from Germany its probably not an option. It's a pity as they have lots of bartop addons available (for a price and they are not the cheapest).

The Last Bandit

Jeez you leave for a few days and the world goes bartop crazy

Does arcadeforge ones look ok'ish and easy to assemble but ya they're a bit pricey. Everything they have does seem to be overpriced though, wrap it in perspex and double the price seems to be the strategy.

Anyhows, this site has a few plans for various bartops and where I got the ideas for mine. Personally I find the woodwork ok its the painting and artistic stuff I can't do - hence the lack of marques and flat finish on all mine.

Have loads of other ideas for cabs but finding the time is a struggle.

o1s1n

Something I'd love to see which kind of ties into this, a mini home build cab. Always seem to see either full sized MAME builds or bartops, nothing in between

The Jaleco Pony II 19 would be a great template for one, it's tiny.

2ndcoming

My grand plan at finally giving this a go is gonna go something like this:

I've bought a Dell small form desktop P4 3.2ghz with 2gb ram/40gb hd, 19"LCD monitor. I only want to run MAME through the Maximus frontend(I've heard it is much easier to program than Hyperspin and once it's easy to use I'll be happy regardless of overall prettiness).

I'm gonna buy an iPac2, some nice buttons (which to go for??). Need it to be a 2 player unit.

I've a few good friends who are cabinet makers who can whip up an MDF frame for me. The painting etc I will be able to manage myself.

Have I left anything out of my masterplan?

Yes, I am a complete novice to this.

The Last Bandit

Sounds like you've got everything you need to get started anyway. Don't give up on Hyperspin though, ya it can be a bit of hassle to get working but its well worth it in the end.

Myrddin

Just back from the doctors, seems I've got a serious case of bartopitus...

Star Lord

Apparently one of the most common causes is selling all your awesome cabs...

MrVestek

In regards to high end stuff, you'd be surprised what you can get second hand on adverts for roughly €40. That's all my motherboard / gfx card combination cost me and it can run the likes of Sonic Generations / SSFIV without any hassle.

I'd spend the extra cash if you can to have that little bit of extra oomph. Looking forward to seeing the progress of this too!

As I've been down this road myself recently if you have any questions let me know.

Myrddin

What size screen is in your bartop Achilles?

MrVestek

EnterNow wrote: »

What size screen is in your bartop Achilles?

17" 4:3.

Steve X2

So, should I go with a 1 player 6 button cpanel or bump it up to a 2p 6button job?
I worried that if I go for the 2 player panel it'll look a bit "busy".

Thoughts?

o1s1n

Depends on a few things.

How big is the bartop going to be?
Do you need a full 12 buttons? Would 8 buttons or even 6 buttons do?
Are you using bat tops or ball tops?
How do you feel about using smaller buttons?

Two Neo geo style setups with ball tops and small buttons wouldn't look busy at all if the bartop wasn't miniscule.

The Last Bandit

You need to make the panel about 50cm wide to accommodate 2 players without squashing them too much and plenty of room to have a well spaced layout really.
Unless of course you plan on adding a couple of trackballs and steering wheels just in case

Myrddin

I think I'd go with a two player six button setup, if it has to be slightly wider to accomodate that then so be it. Street Fighter games would play a huge part of my arcade interests, so it's 2p 6 button or nothin'

Hopefully the chap I asked to build me the unit itself can do such a setup

Steve X2

This is more or less the design I'll be using (from arcadeforge) so maybe its too small for a good 2player panel? I might get both panels made up so I can swap over if i dont like one. I've made some changes to the internal design but the cpanel width will stay the same, so below is the size I'll be working with.

Myrddin

Then again, you're Steve right? Build two of them, one 1p & the other 2p :P

Steve X2

EnterNow wrote: »

Then again, you're Steve right? Build two of them, one 1p & the other 2p :P

You know it

The Last Bandit

For reference, this one was about 50cm wide and that's a 19" LCD in there, batsticks and Happ 28mm buttons. The layout and spacing are fine for 2 player but any closer would be getting uncomfortable.

One possible thing is to add a joystick port for Player 2 and have a external controller should the need every arise for 2 player action.

Myrddin

Stop posting pics of that thing, I want it!

MrVestek

Mine was 63cm or so in width off the top of my head. Leaves more than enough room for a 2player CP without people feeling like they're squashed together.

Whatever button design you go for though I definitely recommend getting the following as insert coin buttons:
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=295

If you're drilling the holes yourself or want to add in some more button holes to an existing design I recommend picking up a forstner bit set. You get much better results than the standard spade bits. This is the kit that I purchased:
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/5pc-Wood-Working-Forstner-Bit-Set-Sizes-15-20-25-30-35mm-Garage-Hobby-Tool-/360757129029?pt=UK_BOI_Building_Materials_Supplies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET&hash=item53feccef45

It worked a treat, very happy with the results. I have loads of spare buttons too if you need them. They're nothing like the buttons you guys are used to using but they fit my needs. This is the kit that I bought for the buttons et all:
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/2-x-ARCADE-JOYSTICKS-22-x-BUTTONS-KIT-10-WITH-ARCADE-CONTROLLER-WIRING-/271263258614?pt=UK_Video_Games_Coin_Operated_MJ&hash=item3f288cd7f6

They're not Seimitsu or anything like it but they definitely do the job. Loads of red ones left over as I said, they're yours if you want them they're just taking up space on me.

MrVestek

Ohh and these, you'll need lots and lots of these:
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/ARCADE-PCB-MOUNTING-FEET-PACK-OF-12-FEET-1-SCREW-PER-FOOT-/390394460091?pt=UK_Video_Games_Coin_Operated_MJ&hash=item5ae552b7bb

Ohh and one more thing, these are the speakers that I gutted for the cab:
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/1077685/Trail/searchtext%3EPC+SPEAKERS.htm

A pain in the arse to break apart but it'll pay off. They're powered by USB too so no need to worry about needing an extra plug. These will definitely try you and your hacksaw's patience.

Steve X2

So, leaving out the actual bartop case design itself.
This is the base system I'm going to be building into the bartop.



It's a sort of integrated and neat solution and should have the power I need for Hyperspin/emulation. It's not super powerful, but is neat, low power(so i can use a NanoPSU and save lots of space) and small(6.7 inch x 6.7 inch). It has a Radeon HD 7340 graphics built in which should be decent enough. My only concern is the AMD APU E2-2000 Dual-Core processor as I've no experience with these and am not sure how well it handles things.

This is what a Nano/Pico PSU looks like:

So, basically a laptop style PSU that powers a mini-itx board and keeps the bulk down a bit. The plan is 1 power cable the connects to the back of the bartop that powers everything. I've seen bartops that look awesome until you look at the back and realise that there are either loads of cables coming out of them or they don't even have the computer built in and require hooking up one externally. This to me is an unfinished job and I know it'll kill me a little inside if thats what I ended up with.

MrVestek

Steve SI wrote: »

So, leaving out the actual bartop case design itself.
This is the base system I'm going to be building into the bartop.



It's a sort of integrated and neat solution and should have the power I need for Hyperspin/emulation. It's not super powerful, but is neat, low power(so i can use a NanoPSU and save lots of space) and small(6.7 inch x 6.7 inch). It has a Radeon HD 7340 graphics built in which should be decent enough. My only concern is the AMD APU E2-2000 Dual-Core processor as I've no experience with these and am not sure how well it handles things.

This is what a Nano/Pico PSU looks like:

So, basically a laptop style PSU that powers a mini-itx board and keeps the bulk down a bit. The plan is 1 power cable the connects to the back of the bartop that powers everything. I've seen bartops that look awesome until you look at the back and realise that there are either loads of cables coming out of them or they don't even have the computer built in and require hooking up one externally. This to me is an unfinished job and I know it'll kill me a little inside if thats what I ended up with.

Well this was my solution to that problem:
http://i.imgur.com/YF2KcOG.jpg

The Internals look a little different now but you get the idea.

Don't forget that you'll need power for the screen too, I wouldn't go powering that off of the main PSU especially if you're using a low powered one like that. I just stuck the two gang plug to the back of the screen mount with some industrial strength tape. Works a charm.

The Last Bandit

I had an APU E350 (Fusion) running Hyperspin/Mame and found it to be a bit sluggish at times. Its now running OpenElec perfectly though..

The E2-2000 runs slightly faster but can't see too many direct comparisons between the two but unless there is a 25% performance increase I'd be looking elsewhere.

Steve X2

The Last Bandit wrote: »

I had an APU E350 (Fusion) running Hyperspin/Mame and found it to be a bit sluggish at times. Its now running OpenElec perfectly though..

The E2-2000 runs slightly faster but can't see too many direct comparisons between the two but unless there is a 25% performance increase I'd be looking elsewhere.

Thanks. I'll see if I can get more info on it but it looks to be more or less the same proc in there, just with a better graphics core.
So perhaps the better graphics core might help Hyperspin but it wont do anything for MAME as its all down to the proc.

The Last Bandit

Hyperspin is written in Flash so will be a CPU hog as well, not sure if the GPU can pick up any of the work.

Steve X2

The Last Bandit wrote: »

Hyperspin is written in Flash so will be a CPU hog as well, not sure if the GPU can pick up any of the work.

I think with the Radeon cores and the latest drivers doesn't it support offloading flash based rendering(and other supported apps) to the graphics cores? To be honest I'm not really 100 percent sure and am as sick as a dog today with flu type stuff so the brain is working on about 10 percent

Edit:
Anyway, my backup plan is a Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe Motherboard and going the usual Intel route and maybe sticking a low profile graphics card in there.

Myrddin

So which one are you going for Steve, the unpainted one or the white finished one? Are there extra parts needed for these like the cp, marquuee fitting, perspex, screws/nuts & bolts etc...are tare they an whole complete kit?

Do they support 19" screens? Will they house a full sized atx board & psu? So many questions

The Last Bandit

White will look like poo.. You defo need to paint it or apply vinyls to it.

MrVestek

A full sized PSU will fit in them no problem, have one in mine.

Myrddin

The Last Bandit wrote: »

White will look like poo.. You defo need to paint it or apply vinyls to it.

Ya think? I think they look pretty nice actually, the vid they have of the assembly {the one in German} it shows one at the end all finished up with black sticks & buttons...I thought it looked pretty well

Achilles wrote: »

A full sized PSU will fit in them no problem, have one in mine.

Cheers, I'll be looking to transplant the guts of my current mamecab into a bartop, & its all full sized stuff.

MrVestek

Myrddin wrote: »

Ya think? I think they look pretty nice actually, the vid they have of the assembly {the one in German} it shows one at the end all finished up with black sticks & buttons...I thought it looked pretty well



Cheers, I'll be looking to transplant the guts of my current mamecab into a bartop, & its all full sized stuff.

You might need to source a small enough motherboard though. Small form factor board with one PCI-E slot should do the trick, especially if you want to upgrade the graphics.

Steve X2

Here's a diagram of the base bartop kit. I was thinking of going for the white board at first but it looks too much like the wood in cheap bedroom furniture i think.
You just get the wood primed and cut from arcadeforge unless you go for extras. I'm not going with a full size atx system board myself and hoping to avoid using a standard psu as well. Although if i go with an Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe and an intel i7 I think a pico psu isnt going to cut it.



Google Drive link to the docs from arcadeforge:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B69DctF0Bt9BaVVtZUJOZEZQNFE&usp

MrVestek

Looks like my build alright.

Steve X2

Anyone know the strength difference between mdf and coated chipboard?
After a second look at the white coated option it's given me some ideas, but it's coated chipboard and I don't know if thats a lot weaker than mdf.

Myrddin

I'll bow out of your order at this stage Steve, gonna look at another option but thanks anyway

MrVestek

They'd both be roughly around the same I'd say, I currently have a 42" TV currently mounted to a large sheet of chipboard as part of a TV unit.

Personally I'd prefer working with MDF but that might just be me.

Steve X2

Myrddin wrote: »

I'll bow out of your order at this stage Steve, gonna look at another option but thanks anyway

No probs dude. Will see how my one goes.
I've decided to risk it all and go for the white one :eek:
I can always get vinyl skins for it if it turns out looking really bad.

Star Lord

For someone like me that'd make a balls of even cutting the wood for these myself, one of those might be a good option. Sadly, funds are a little more limited at the minute. I haven't even got my ipac/joysticks/buttons for the standalone cp yet!