Dublin Bus Overcharging

ballooba

Is there anything that can be done to challenge Dublin Bus overcharging? This seems endemic. It's not sufficient to expect passengers to constantly challenge the fares they are charged. As passengers we are told to state our destination to the driver when boarding the bus. I always follow this pattern and the fares I am charged are all over the place. This morning again I was overcharged despite requesting the terminus stop. The fare machine must have been stuck on an earlier stop.

I admit to fantasizing about being caught by an inspector when the driver has undercharged me, so that I can go to court and challenge the whole shambles.

Stevek101

There was suppose to be an update where the ticket machine used GPS rather than driver interaction to locate the stage. This update was due last summer so it has probably gone by the wayside.

I'd imagine we shall see a simplification of the fare structure for the new year which should ease the problems.

marcus2000

I used to state the destination but the fare bounced all around the place. Now, I state the fare I want to pay....but I actually purposely look at the leapcard machine and the destination varies all the time. Last night, I got on at christchurch and paid 1.90 and the destination came up as James street (which was about 2-3 stops away). The bus was full so I stood by the driver. At the next stop, a passenger stated Kilmainham, paying by cash, and was charged 2.15 which was waaay too much from that point....

haro124

I was going to college one day and asked how much it was to get there- €2.15. The next day I said €2.15 to driver at the exact same stop and then he gave out to me for not paying the right fare when I got off !

dazberry

From twitter:

Dublin Bus @dublinbusnews
Hi @DublinCityBID. Have you heard we’ve launched our new fare calculator on our website? bit.ly/10P3CUr - 10 Apr

@dazberry
@dublinbusnews RE: Fare calculator & leap card. So is it better to state num stages, destination, or price to the driver when boarding? - 10 Apr

Dublin Bus @dublinbusnews
@dazberry If you already know what your fare is then you call tell the driver and not mention stages. 07:58 AM - 11 Apr 13

So I just quote the fare but it hasn't stopped me being overcharged occasionally...

D.

LXFlyer

marcus2000 wrote: »

I used to state the destination but the fare bounced all around the place. Now, I state the fare I want to pay....but I actually purposely look at the leapcard machine and the destination varies all the time. Last night, I got on at christchurch and paid 1.90 and the destination came up as James street (which was about 2-3 stops away). The bus was full so I stood by the driver. At the next stop, a passenger stated Kilmainham, paying by cash, and was charged 2.15 which was waaay too much from that point....

€2.15 is the correct fare from Francis Street to Kilmainham Cross - it is 4 stages.

marcus2000

lxflyer wrote: »

€2.15 is the correct fare from Francis Street to Kilmainham Cross - it is 4 stages.

You are right. I just checked out the fare calculator myself. Suppose understanding 'Dublin Bus Stages' is another topic. The trip above is only 5 stops, which seems to equate to 4 'stages' in this scenario.

Polar101

It would help both the drivers and the passengers if the stage system was better - now it's not so easy to know what the actual fare will be.

For example, I have often taken the bus from Ballycoolin (stop 7243) to Blanchardstown Shopping Centre (stop 7025 or 7026 depending on route - they are about 20 metres apart). The fare is €1.65 on route 220 and €2.15 on route 17a.

220: http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fare-Calculator/Fare-Calculator-Results/?routeNumber=220&direction=O&board=44&alight=64

17a: http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fare-Calculator/Fare-Calculator-Results/?routeNumber=17a&direction=I&board=51&alight=66

SandyfordGuy

the 17a takes a detour via connolly rather than direct

ballooba

dazberry wrote: »

From twitter:



So I just quote the fare but it hasn't stopped me being overcharged occasionally...

D.

That's typically inconsistent with what they have stated on their website. I would be very surprised if Dublin Bus had a leg to stand on if they tried to take anyone to court. It's a real pity that class action lawsuits aren't a feature of our legal system. The abuses of customers by Dublin Bus seem ripe for such a case.

EDIT: It's a pity the likes of the CAI are silent on this. http://www.thejournal.ie/consumers-association-launches-class-action-against-ulster-bank-539164-Jul2012/

Delta2113

Just checked my Leap Card online and last night I got charged €2.50 instead of €2.15 going in to town. Any point e-mailing Leap Card and asking them to check my history and they will clearly see me make the same trip always at €2.15?

It's only 35 cent but this ridiculous system of having to tell the driver your destination instead of swiping card etc. is so annoying.

AlekSmart

Delta2113 wrote: »

Just checked my Leap Card online and last night I got charged €2.50 instead of €2.15 going in to town. Any point e-mailing Leap Card and asking them to check my history and they will clearly see me make the same trip always at €2.15?

It's only 35 cent but this ridiculous system of having to tell the driver your destination instead of swiping card etc. is so annoying.

One element to bear in mind is that the Busdriver who "Overcharges" is most likely to be the one charging the CORRECT Fare.

Since Bus Atha Cliath deliberately removed ALL Bus Stage identification markings from the individual Bus-Stops,it has been impossible for an ordinary Customer to correctly assess their fare.

Stating a destination and requesting the fare from the driver is'nt really much better,as significant numbers of drivers float across different routes and do not possess the individual knowledge of Stage Points to give 100% accurtate responses.

In addition,the printed Timetable Sheets,which have a Stage-List on the bottom,are often worded ambiguously,a situation which is totally avoidable by the simple expedient of printing the Bus-Stop NUMBER alongside the relevant STAGE NUMBER.

I would strongly recommend Customers experiencing regular misfare occurrences to visit http://www.dublinbus.ie/Fare-Calculator/ and follow the instructions. This will allow the customer to view the CORRECT Fare between ANY two Bus Stops on the system.

Bear in mind that the Fare Calculator is EXACT,ie: between INDIVIDUAL Bus-Stops,so "just after","a couple of stops" or "just down the road" journeys cannot be accomodated.

Once you have the correct fare,the page can be printed out,folded and carried to prove the actual Fare level.

NB: It SHOULD however be borne in mind that the Stage Point Locations as outlined on the Fare Calculator App,can differ from those in the ambiguous Timetable listing,however as the Fare Calculator is the more recent Company publication on the issue,this,in my opinion,is the valid guide.

Also bear in mind that Customers boarding BETWEEN Stage-Points pay from the Stage PRECEEDING the boarding Stop,and if alighting between Stages,are charged to the SUCCEEDING or following Stage.

This means that a Customer boarding AND alighting between Stage Points may well be charged a Fare greater than what they "Think" is correct.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/Fare-Calculator/

PS Delta 2113...could you post the details of the actual trip,just to clarify the issue ?

Delta2113

The 151 Bus from Stop 2185, Drimnagh Rd, Slievebloom Road to the first stop after going over the bridge after Christchurch Cathederal (O'Donavan Rossa I think).

I'm 100% sure €2.15 is correct Leap fare.

AlekSmart

Delta2113 wrote: »

The 151 Bus from Stop 2185, Drimnagh Rd, Slievebloom Road to the first stop after going over the bridge after Christchurch Cathederal (O'Donavan Rossa I think).

I'm 100% sure €2.15 is correct Leap fare.

Assuming the destination stop is 1479,Ormond Quay the correct Leapcard Fare is €2.15.

Not open for debate.

Also worth noting is that the ACTUAL Stage Point can now be found on the Fare Calculator,and BOTH of these individual Bus Stops ARE stage points,65 and 74 respectively...however,NO such indication is revealed at the actual Bus-Stops concerned,which is where the information is most required.

Fare-Stag charging is actually a long established and functional system,BUT it is TOTALLY dependant upon being fully visible to BOTH Customer and Busdriver alike...otherwise the system itself is largely irrelevant.

Delta2113

I might go back to saying €2.15 city centre instead of just saying city centre which i have been doing.

What info show's up on the drivers machine? Normally I only notice my balance - would it say clearly €2.15 or in the case last night €2.50 and in future I will tell the driver I was overcharged and ask for a refund?

LXFlyer

Just say €2.15 - no need to state the destination.

AlekSmart

Delta2113 wrote: »

I might go back to saying €2.15 city centre instead of just saying city centre which i have been doing.

What info show's up on the drivers machine? Normally I only notice my balance - would it say clearly €2.15 or in the case last night €2.50 and in future I will tell the driver I was overcharged and ask for a refund?

I would NOT mention City Centre at all in your case.

Currently,following a deliberation and decision by the Advertising Standards Authority of Ireland regarding a builder/developer's description of their property and access to the City Centre via Luas services,the definition of City Centre-An Lár has to be adjacent to the GPO/O Connell St.

Observant folk may have noticed a slight alteration of Bus Destination displays sometime ago,whereby many routes had the "Via An Lár" element replaced by a specific alternative location,such as Bachelors Walk,Fleet Street,Aston Quay or whatever.

Delta2113

lxflyer wrote: »

Just say €2.15 - no need to state the destination.

- I'll start doing this in future.

foggy_lad

Delta2113 wrote: »

I might go back to saying €2.15 city centre instead of just saying city centre which i have been doing.

What info show's up on the drivers machine? Normally I only notice my balance - would it say clearly €2.15 or in the case last night €2.50 and in future I will tell the driver I was overcharged and ask for a refund?

Make sure you emphasise the 15 because the driver may be hearing €2.50 instead of the €2.15 you are asking for, or get a sign made up with €2.15 in large red letters:D

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

Make sure you emphasise the 15 because the driver may be hearing €2.50 instead of the €2.15 you are asking for, or get a sign made up with €2.15 in large red letters:D

Oddly enough Foggy,I have a regular customer (no speech) who has exactly that figure written in marker on the palm of his hand...he simply slaps the card down and puts his other palm up to the drivers screen....fast & accurate.

MGWR

ballooba wrote: »

Is there anything that can be done to challenge Dublin Bus overcharging? This seems endemic. It's not sufficient to expect passengers to constantly challenge the fares they are charged. As passengers we are told to state our destination to the driver when boarding the bus. I always follow this pattern and the fares I am charged are all over the place. This morning again I was overcharged despite requesting the terminus stop. The fare machine must have been stuck on an earlier stop.

I admit to fantasizing about being caught by an inspector when the driver has undercharged me, so that I can go to court and challenge the whole shambles.

Flat fares, maybe? No ambiguity then.

Stage-based fares really only work with a conductor system. One could call its continued existence a three-decade-old anachronism.