Two post lift in a garage

buttsoirl

has anyone here got a two post lift in a relative normal sized garage..?
if so... what height is your shed/garage/workshop..

moving home and loosing my man palace.. so have to plan about getting a new one... I was looking a the steel garages (steeltech/C&S sheds etc) but don't want it too high... I reckon the missus would kill me.. :P

so would love to hear from anyone who has managed two wedge one comfortably into a shed..

ta
iain

OldmanMondeo

Also check what insurance cover you need. Those lifts need to be serviced regularly by approved people.

galwaytt

OSI wrote: »

Would you not be better with a pit if height is an issue?

Pit is an insurance no-no I'd have thought these days. Besides, they're useless compared to a lift.

Noccy_Mondy

Brother has one, mighty yoke, shed roof is give or take 8ish meters up, and that allows for a jumbo hi-roof transit to be on the lift at full height, and there's still room on top.

biko

I know some guys with these in their garages. They are all in the country and the garages are fairly high.

A thread from last year

buttsoirl

yeah a pit would be a no no.. I have 3 young kids... I always remember my uncles one.. .always full of water.. dangerous yokes.. cant imagine trying to lug a gearbox out of a pit..

most of the companies I spoke to said to have a 10/11 foot side going up to 15 feet in the apex... .. but thats a fairly high shed... I dont think the boss would go for it..
I had seen some very compact ones years ago.. but never measured them..
I will mock it up on google sketchup and see can I figure it out..

one person did recommend lowering the floor to reduce the height.. so maybe that is a runner too.

ta for all the input lads

Scortho

buttsoirl wrote: »

yeah a pit would be a no no.. I have 3 young kids... I always remember my uncles one.. .always full of water.. dangerous yokes.. cant imagine trying to lug a gearbox out of a pit..

most of the companies I spoke to said to have a 10/11 foot side going up to 15 feet in the apex... .. but thats a fairly high shed... I dont think the boss would go for it..
I had seen some very compact ones years ago.. but never measured them..
I will mock it up on google sketchup and see can I figure it out..

one person did recommend lowering the floor to reduce the height.. so maybe that is a runner too.

ta for all the input lads

If you put a steel trapdoor with a padlock on each end surely that would prevent the kids falling in etc?

How would it fill with water if it's inside and sealed at the bottom?

You'd make a very decent pit for a fraction of the cost of a lift.

galwaytt

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

Brother has one, mighty yoke, shed roof is give or take 8ish meters up, and that allows for a jumbo hi-roof transit to be on the lift at full height, and there's still room on top.

8m ?? That's taller than a house !!

No need for anything like that height - a clear floor 4t lift is about 3.7m - 4.0m in height, e.g. http://www.redmount.ie/node/79

Now, something like this could be very, very useful.... http://www.redmount.ie/node/74 I've seen one in a garage in Mayo and it looked like a great idea.

How about a floor mounted scissor lift if you're really stuck for height ? And, you could make it flush with the floor as well... http://www.redmount.ie/node/72

rex-x

Scortho wrote: »

If you put a steel trapdoor with a padlock on each end surely that would prevent the kids falling in etc?

How would it fill with water if it's inside and sealed at the bottom?

You'd make a very decent pit for a fraction of the cost of a lift.

But a pit is only about 10% as useful as a lift!
They fill with water because many are below the water table

Rovi

To the best of my knowledge, pits are uninsurable in commercial premises.
Things MAY be different in a private situation where you, and only you, have access or will be working in/around it.
One major hazard is that heavier-than-air gasses tend to accumulate in them, many of which are asphyxiants or flammable.

galwaytt

Scortho wrote: »

If you put a steel trapdoor with a padlock on each end surely that would prevent the kids falling in etc?

How would it fill with water if it's inside and sealed at the bottom?

You'd make a very decent pit for a fraction of the cost of a lift.

It's not just kids who fall in.........

It will fill with water from the surrounding ground unless you make of r/c concrete. And your car will (inevitably) be wet some/most/all of the time. Gravity will tell the water where to go......not to mention spills off the floors above.......and it will just sit there.

More importantly thought, fumes and gases - both combusted and very importantly petrol are heavier than air, and they they will sink and stay in, the pit. It is only a matter of time before you have a fire in it - and lord help you if you're under a car at the time. Curtains is the word...........

I worked in a garage in the UK 20+ years ago, and there were 2 apprentices killed in a garage pit fire at the time. That sealed it for me and, I would think, every insurer in the land........

Scortho

galwaytt wrote: »

It's not just kids who fall in.........

It will fill with water from the surrounding ground unless you make of r/c concrete. And your car will (inevitably) be wet some/most/all of the time. Gravity will tell the water where to go......not to mention spills off the floors above.......and it will just sit there.

More importantly thought, fumes and gases - both combusted and very importantly petrol are heavier than air, and they they will sink and stay in, the pit. It is only a matter of time before you have a fire in it - and lord help you if you're under a car at the time. Curtains is the word...........

I worked in a garage in the UK 20+ years ago, and there were 2 apprentices killed in a garage pit fire at the time. That sealed it for me and, I would think, every insurer in the land........

Cheers lads you've out me off the idea if a out for myself in the future.

Markcheese

Does it really matter what system you put in ?? If your work height is 6 or 7 feet High ,then add the height of the car,/van whatever , and that's pretty much where your lowest roof truss can be... You might get a few inches or a foot by dropping the floor...
I'd have thought your roof design will be the most important feature.

OldmanMondeo

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Also check what insurance cover you need. Those lifts need to be serviced regularly by approved people.

galwaytt wrote: »

Pit is an insurance no-no I'd have thought these days. Besides, they're useless compared to a lift.

Why would insurance come into when (as it appears from the op) its for private use?

A lift is a mile better than a pit as others have said but does it have to be a two post lift? Would one of the scissors lifts do you?

buttsoirl

think I have found a good example, of a normal sized shed with lift.. it was on the shanette sheds website..

this is pretty much what I was wondering about to see if it was possible.. I could always put a little walk channel in the bottom like a mini pit.. maybe a foot deep.. so I am not craning my neck...

Noccy_Mondy

galwaytt wrote: »

8m ?? That's taller than a house !!
http://www.redmount.ie/node/72

Actually went and measured it today, just over 6 metres, shows how good my judgement is :P And even at that it is very high, most of the space isnt even needed.

Doom

Make sure you put down a decent depth of good concrete, for good support for floor bolts.
Also regardless of business or home use these lifts require good maintenance and are required to be also inspected every 12 months under H&S regs

mgbgt1978

Doom wrote: »

Make sure you put down a decent depth of good concrete, for good support for floor bolts.
Also regardless of business or home use these lifts require good maintenance and are required to be also inspected every 12 months under H&S regs

Not so sure about this. Acording to this...
http://www.stateclaims.ie/Publications/GuidanceOnStatutoryInspectionsReferenceTool.pdf

....inspections fall under the health and safety at work act. See section 23.
No mention of Privately owned car lifting equipment needing an annual inspection.

Doom

Sure... he's just buying a vehicle lift to work on his own car....if he works for himself on the side doing odd jobs, its still classed as 'a place of work'
Any how at the end of the day, don't take chances with your life or anyone else's.
Get it tested before 1st use and checked over by a qualified service man at least once a year

visual

Was thinking about the pits and there is tyre chain on kylemore road that has two pits bays along with lifts in other bays. So I don't think pits are uninsurable.

Plus its not too difficult to fit a drain and fan.
The best pits I've seen have lights drain and steps at rear. Once they are kept clean I dont see a big safty issue. Petrol vapour could settle in them but thats also true of garage with doors closed.

mgbgt1978

Doom wrote: »

Sure... he's just buying a vehicle lift to work on his own car....if he works for himself on the side doing odd jobs, its still classed as 'a place of work'

You have absolutely no idea what the Op is going to use this lift for, so it's a bit ridiculous to make assumptions.
Your previous post stated that this lift would require an annual inspection.
That is not the case and you have not provided any evidence to the contrary.
Whether the OP decides to get the lift inspected regularly is his business, and at his own risk.

JohnBoy26

a 2 post lift is far superior to a pit. There is far more room under the vehicle when it's on a 2 post lift compared to when it's on a pit. Also changing brake pads etc is far easier to do when the car is on the lift as you can have all the four wheels off at once and you can have the area your working on at a comfortable height.

If your doing brakes etc on a pit or without a lift you will have to jack up each corner at a time and be at near ground level to do the work required which can get uncomfortable.

Also pits are far darker areas to work in. With a lift you will have far more natural light to work with which does make for a far nicer working environment in my experience.

dgt

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

a 2 post lift is far superior to a pit. There is far more room under the vehicle when it's on a 2 post lift compared to when it's on a pit. Also changing brake pads etc is far easier to do when the car is on the lift as you can have all the four wheels off at once and you can have the area your working on at a comfortable height.

If your doing brakes etc on a pit or without a lift you will have to jack up each corner at a time and be at near ground level to do the work required which can get uncomfortable.

Also pits are far darker areas to work. With a lift you will have far more natural light to work with which does make for a far nicer working environment in my experience.

Do remember the people out there that may not necessarily have the room for a lift due to a low roof, space etc. Otheriwise there is no arguement, lift everytime

galwaytt

visual wrote: »

Was thinking about the pits and there is tyre chain on kylemore road that has two pits bays along with lifts in other bays. So I don't think pits are uninsurable.

Plus its not too difficult to fit a drain and fan.
The best pits I've seen have lights drain and steps at rear. Once they are kept clean I dont see a big safty issue. Petrol vapour could settle in them but thats also true of garage with doors closed.

Difficult, no. Ill-advised: most certainly.

A drain in a pit is a conduit for the aforementioned gases.....which is another reason why the electrics in a pit must be rated for hazardous use. Otherwise they become the ignition source your petrol fumes are waiting for..............and the drain would have to go UP first - hence a pump - to get out of the garage. Otherwise your drain out is groundwater's way IN.........;)

The fan. Under no circumstances should you use a standard electrical fan in such a location, for the same reasons. You might as well light a match, tbh.

mickdw

I don't get you re the issues with a drain from a pit.
Can you explain alittle what you mean and what dangers the drain creates?

galwaytt

dgt wrote: »

Do remember the people out there that may not necessarily have the room for a lift due to a low roof, space etc. Otheriwise there is no arguement, lift everytime

Indeed - and where height is an issue, roof design to be without joists, or to use a portal frame/scissor truss is the way to use the apex of a pitched roof to maximum effect.

I just did a quick drawing in AutoCAD to see what it would take for a 'standard' car (I'd like to thank AutoCAD for the up-to-the-minute car :rolleyes: - Renault 21 anyone ?? :P )

So, car is 4400mm long, and 1400mm high (your model may vary )
Standard AutoCAD Man is 1760mm high, so I allowed for 1800 clearance under the LOWEST point - the bottom of the wheels (you could easily work with less here).

Then I drew backwards around it and arrived at a 2.7m wall plate and 4m apex.

Not too big to think you could get a lift to work inside that.

Doom

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

You have absolutely no idea what the Op is going to use this lift for, so it's a bit ridiculous to make assumptions.
Your previous post stated that this lift would require an annual inspection.
That is not the case and you have not provided any evidence to the contrary.
Whether the OP decides to get the lift inspected regularly is his business, and at his own risk.

And I suppose you know what he is using it for and provide evidence , you're making assumptions yourself....just so you know if any accident does happen, The HSA are not thick and they know all the tricks in the book, especially lads working in grey areas.
Best of luck to the OP.

mgbgt1978

Making no assumptions whatsoever, and never even hinted at it.
Only working from the facts.
The OP did not state that he would be using the lift for any sort of commercial use.
There is nothing in Law stating that a privately used lift requires an annual inspection (as stated in your 1st post).
'Any accident' could obviously include a situation where the OP is working on his own car. Where's the 'trick in the book' there that the HSA apparently know all about ???????
The simple fact is that a privately used lift does not require an annual inspection. If you don't know the regulations then please don't make sweeping statements to people who just maybe like to work on their own cars.
End of discussion on my part.

OldmanMondeo

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

You have absolutely no idea what the Op is going to use this lift for, so it's a bit ridiculous to make assumptions.
Your previous post stated that this lift would require an annual inspection.
That is not the case and you have not provided any evidence to the contrary.
Whether the OP decides to get the lift inspected regularly is his business, and at his own risk.

I said about annual inspection and I know this is required by insurance companies as fact. Used to work for a crowd who sold and fit them, also offered the annual inspection service.

Op would need to check out the insurance just in case. Say the house burnt down, insurance company might not pay out due to the lift. Better to be safe than sorry.

Doom

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Making no assumptions whatsoever, and never even hinted at it.
Only working from the facts.
The OP did not state that he would be using the lift for any sort of commercial use.
There is nothing in Law stating that a privately used lift requires an annual inspection (as stated in your 1st post).
'Any accident' could obviously include a situation where the OP is working on his own car. Where's the 'trick in the book' there that the HSA apparently know all about ???????
The simple fact is that a privately used lift does not require an annual inspection. If you don't know the regulations then please don't make sweeping statements to people who just maybe like to work on their own cars.
End of discussion on my part.

Chill out dude

dooroy

I installed a 2 post lift in my shed a few years ago .
I had a Land Rover Discovery at the time and I 'designed ' the roof so that I could get the Disco high enough to work comfortably under it .
I think the highest point of the roof is about 4M or 13 ft approx.
It wouldn't be high enough to get a high roof van up so you could walk under it - but ordinary vans , jeeps etc no problem .
I have it for my own use but of course family and friends also find it useful:)

galwaytt

mickdw wrote: »

I don't get you re the issues with a drain from a pit.
Can you explain alittle what you mean and what dangers the drain creates?

A drain will collect the same fluids that collect at the bottom of a pit. But a drain in such a location doesn't just collect inert material. Drops of petrol oil etc make it a combustible fluid. A watery fuel if you will.

Now for any drain to work it must drain down to a lower level. However at the bottom of a pit how can you go downwards? If you do, where are you putting this ' fuel'? It doesn't go somewhere magically. .... and if one fluid can flow out. .... groundwater can flow in. ..... So, you must get it above the pit-garage floor level- before taking if away somewhere. ..... and not into your rain drain either. ...... at work we have a thing called a petrol interceptor to stop petrol and oils getting into run off drains and a Co come and pump it out periodically. ...

mickdw

Ah, Im thinking of a totally different setup. I live on a hill. A pipe can easily to run from the bottom of a pit with an outward slope and still finish at ground level. A small scale interceptor can easily be incorporated before letting it off to drain. In a situation such as this, I dont see the issue with the drain at the base. Considering that the whole argument against pits is that the heavy vapours travel down, the gravity flow drain should be ideal.

galwaytt

mickdw wrote: »

Ah, Im thinking of a totally different setup. I live on a hill. A pipe can easily to run from the bottom of a pit with an outward slope and still finish at ground level. A small sale interceptor can easily be incorporated before letting it off to drain. In a situation such as this, I dont see the issue with the drain at the base. Considering that the whole argument against pits is that the heavy vapours travel down, the gravity flow drain should be ideal.

That sounds good for your site.

For a working area/device, a lift is still better though (whole under-car access, wheels-off).

mickdw

galwaytt wrote: »

That sounds good for your site.

For a working area/device, a lift is still better though (whole under-car access, wheels-off).

Agree 100%. A lift is first preference and for the work I would be doing on my own car, stuff like brakes etc, a pit is useless but if things dont work out re a lift, a pit is still worth having.

lomb

What use is a pit if you need to take the wheels off? Seems claustrophobic to me . I would think a lift is the only way forward. Even if it doesnt get so you can stand under it, even crouching would be better than any pit or ramps etc.

On another note how much would a shed cost labour+materials that would house a car with lift and enough space around for tools and access?

JohnBoy26

lomb wrote: »

What use is a pit if you need to take the wheels off? Seems claustrophobic to me . I would think a lift is the only way forward. Even if it doesnt get so you can stand under it, even crouching would be better than any pit or ramps etc.

On another note how much would a shed cost labour+materials that would house a car with lift and enough space around for tools and access?

In that case a pit would be better Imo. It's very hard to do things when crouched under a car.

buttsoirl

to answer the question.. no this isn't a commercial setup. I have a hobby car.. and just like to potter about with it... and I don't like those axle stands.. and dont really trust them or a pit..
the House insurance crowd are not bother by it for 1 major reason..
its not in the house.. and cannot affect/burn/damage the house.
what happens in the shed... stays in the shed... :rolleyes:

GalwayTT.. thanks for that PDF.. that was well handy to help me visualize the max working room.

Lomb.. to answer your question, the figures I have received so far

€6,750 ex-vat 7.3m x 9m with 11ft sides and a 14ft apex... that's delivery and installation.. (H2 engineering)
I have also contacted C&S sheds.. I got a shed from them before.. 20x30x10
that was 4k delivery and installation.. and 500 quid for the concrete floor.. which I did myself.. 250 for the lights, wiring and fusebox which I got from a wholesale place..

JohnBoy26

Id say go for it if you have sufficient space. You won't need a very high shed if it's only cars your working on. Just make sure it's a two post lift you get and make sure it's not the screw type. You will have to have 6 to 12 inches of concrete(depending on the lift)with rebar where the legs of the lift will be bolted.

Chinese made lifts such as a 4ton phoenix will set you back around 2k. These are perfect for private use or light commercial use.

If you want a step up in quality a european made lift will cost double that amount but you probably won't need something like this as you won't be using it day in day out like in a commercial scenario.

Lifts will need maintenance but it's not as bad as some make out.