Retro RPG Games

Myrddin

Being very, very new to the genre, I must admit I'm liking the model a lot. Many, if not all, of these games passed me by when I was younger because I had zero interest in the genre. With my tastes having matured somewhat over the years, & sometimes yearning for my games to be a little more involved, I decided to see what all the fuss was about.

I played through Earthbound, and enjoyed it immensely so. Though the battle system {turn based nature} did appear to be somewhat confusing to me early on, I got to grips with it over the course of the game. It was only afterwards, while researching the genre further, that I understood the turn based model a bit more, HP, PP, items, other characters etc...it all stems from roots set back yonder. Even more so, the modern RPG is an evolution of pen & paper roleplaying games like Dungeons & Dragons.

So, on my second playthrough of Earthbound, I find myself much more comfortable in the games surroundings, how things work etc. And as I said elsewhere, I'm enjoying the game all the more for it. But it's got me thinking, what other gems have passed me by? Chrono Trigger has come up before, & maybe I'll play that next, or maybe not...there's only one first time after all

What are your favorite retro RPG games & why?

penev10

Y's The Vanished Omens on the Master System always has a special place in my cardiovascular region as it was the first RPG I'd played but it should probably be avoided by anyone looking to get into RPGs as its so frustratingly obtuse.

Secret of Mana is an obvious choice if you fancy a more action-oriented RPG. Theres a fanlation of the sequel which is absolutely gorgeous and a must for fans of pixel art.

All of the Fire Emblem games are great imo (more SRPG I suppose). The GBA ones are a good intro to the series if you want to get a handle on the basics.

safetyboy

Secret of Mana for the music and atmosphere, also Zelda LTTP needs no introduction.

o1s1n

Chrono Trigger is the greatest 16 bit RPG ever made, simple as really . And it's really accessible for anyone, don't need to be a hardened RPG player to get into it.

Final Fantasy VI is up there too, however it's not quite as good as CT.

I'd rate Phantasy Star IV on the Megadrive higher than FF VI and would go as far as to rival CT for the top spot.

If you're not limiting yourself to 2D, then give Panzer Dragoon Saga a go on the Saturn. Absolutely incredible game.

Hank Scorpio

FF6 on the snes is probably my favorite rpg on the system. There's a really deep enthralling quality to that game, I spent more time playing it than I did the likes of fallout 3 or skyrim. Just walking around the world of balance with Terras theme playing was enough to get me hooked. There's so many characters, relics, espers, items and armor/weapons it's just mind blowing. The graphics are excellent and the soundtrack is fantastic. The story made it. Game was way ahead of its time. Never got into Chrono Trigger as much, probably need to spend more time on it.

Myrddin

safetyboy wrote: »

also Zelda LTTP needs no introduction.

Stricly not an RPG game, it's an action/adventure game...& about as close I ever got to a 'deep' game when I was younger

o1s1n

EnterNow wrote: »

Stricly not an RPG game, it's an action/adventure game...& about as close I ever got to a 'deep' game when I was younger

Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore would be similar. Action/Adventur-ey rather than turn based RPG stuff.

The more I remember Phantasy Star IV the more I think it should be your next game. Has all the makings of a sci fi epic. You'll love it

Just whatever you do, don't google it. Major spoilers could be accidentally stumbled upon.

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore would be similar. Action/Adventur-ey rather than turn based RPG stuff.

I take it though that unlike Zelda, there is a character stats system unlike Zelda where you need item A to progress to Dungeon B etc? Zelda has no traditional role play elements really, it's a straight up action adventure title imo

o1s1n

EnterNow wrote: »

I take it though that unlike Zelda, there is a character stats system unlike Zelda where you need item A to progress to Dungeon B etc? Zelda has no traditional role play elements really, it's a straight up action adventure title imo

If I remember correctly (!) in Secret of Mana you only level your weapon up. There isn't a character stat system. It's very like ALTTP in that regard. Fairly sure it's viewed as an action/adventure game anyway.

Secret of Evermore you level the character up, so it's a little bit more RPGish...bit it still feels like an action/adventure game. Mainly because of the battle system (like Secret of Mana, it's not traditionally turn based)

super_furry

Terranigma always gets my vote. To my mind it's the best RPG of the SNES era with brilliant graphics that still stand up, a great sound track and a story that holds your interest throughout. It's often overlooked because it was released so late in the SNES' lifespan but is definitely worth checking out.

Myrddin

penev10 wrote: »

Y's The Vanished Omens on the Master System always has a special place in my cardiovascular region as it was the first RPG I'd played but it should probably be avoided by anyone looking to get into RPGs as its so frustratingly obtuse.

I think I've decided in recent times, that I prefer 16bit gaming over 8bit...I much prefer a game that's at least partly intuitive over a "burn every bush on the map to find the sword of gilgamesh in order to defeat the hidden dungeon boss" type thing

Secret of Mana is an obvious choice if you fancy a more action-oriented RPG. Theres a fanlation of the sequel which is absolutely gorgeous and a must for fans of pixel art.

Secret of Mana is on my radar, actually i have it sitting here alongside Chrono Trigger. Must check out the sequel, cheers!

o1s1n

Hopefully, by the time I finish off FF VI and then play Illusion of Time, I'll have Terranigma sorted and in the post :pac:

/crosses fingers

the groutch

any game from the Shining series (Shining The Holy Ark being the best imo)

Retr0gamer

I'd say go with chrono trigger and phantasy star 4. Both would be the best on their respective systems after earthbound. A few other good suggestions here. I'd highly recommend Panzer Dragoon Saga, probably more than the other two I mentioned. It's relatively short but just an all around stunning game. I've always been a fan of shining force as a fun intro to strategy rpg games. Shining the Holy Ark is a superb dungeon crawler as well.

Final fantasy is always fun and easy to get into. The snes games are all superb. The ps1 games as well, for all I say about ff7 it's still a huge amount of fun. However on PS1 there's far better. Grandia has quite simply the best battle system of any RPG and a really sweet story. Suikoden 2 is a lot of fun but beware, it has a very heart moving and tragic story that might bring you to tears.

safetyboy

Just seen this on kotaku http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1596638143/cosmic-star-heroine-sci-fi-spy-rpg-for-pc-mac-ps4

Retr0gamer

Was thinking, oh god, another western indie developed 'inspired by' JRPG by a bunch of clowns that don't understand JRPGs. Then I saw it's by the Breath of Death guys. Now they do know what they are doing.

Myrddin

It should be noted, this thread should cater for extreme RPG newbs...so I don't mind asking the question, essentially what are the main differences between RPG's & JRPG's?

CiDeRmAn

I really like Duke Nukem 3D.....
.
..
...

Oh, we're not talking about Retro Games with RPG's in them....

My bad

Retr0gamer

Thanks iPad auto correct. That should be Grandia not Grandma!!!

the groutch

EnterNow wrote: »

It should be noted, this thread should cater for extreme RPG newbs...so I don't mind asking the question, essentially what are the main differences between RPG's & JRPG's?

Retr0gamer

Forget what everyone above says. Play Legend of Dragoon!

(actually don't because it might put you off the genre completely, it almost put me off games completely).

megaten

Is GBA counted as retro yet? My favorite RPG on that is Summon Night: Swordcraft Story. It a fun dungeon crawler style game with light crafting and kind of tales style combat except with one character. The best bit though is the story. You can pick your characters gender but the story stays the same so all the girls are still in love with you.

Dr Bob

Right...
in no particular order
Shadowrun on the Snes
D and D warriors of the eternal sun on the meg
Starflight on the meg
Bloodwych on the C64
FF1 on the NES
yeah LTTP on the snes
BloodOmen :Legacy of Kain on the Ps1
KINGS- FECK I I DIED- FIELD/2 on the PS1
Planescape Torment on the PC
Soma Bringer on the DS (why was this not translated when so much Jrpg dreck was?..WHY?!?)
DaggerFall/Morrowind/(and the non-retro)Oblivion/Skyrim on the PC.

super_furry

Tell you what I always thought was a great Rogue-like dungeon crawler - Azure Dreams on the PSone. There's some daft romancing character stuff but if you can look past that there's a great core game with some pretty neat village building stuff tagged on.

penev10

EnterNow wrote: »

essentially what are the main differences between RPG's & JRPG's?

Extra Credits have a good three part exploration of the differences:

Myrddin

Excellent, will check that out cheers

Retr0gamer

That extra credits video doesn't really explain much.

For me Western RPGs have their roots in old school D&D. The combat mechanics are secondary to player choice. You have stuff like Baldur's gate where the combat consists of dice rolls in the background and the odd spell being thrown around or ability or skyrim where it's just kind of naff first person combat. However the player choice and freedom that defines D&D is carried over to WRPGs. In a good WRPG you shouldn't be trying to be good or bad but roleplaying a character.

JRPGs on the other hand are mostly influenced by Wizardry and Ultima 3, but mostly Wizardry. Wizardry is just a dungeon crawler really. Successive JRPGs have built on the combat of wizardry and modified it so much that it's just branched out into countless variants, some of which bear no resemblance to the original source. It's all about the combat system in JRPGs. Some are ****e (shudder, Legend of Dragoon) while some are magnificent ( Grandia, Persona 4 etc.). There's usually a lot of narrative in JRPGs but it's usually linear with no real player choice.

Unfortunately a lot of JRPG narratives are based on dull and boring anime tropes mostly popular stuff like Final Fantasy and Tales of, which gives JRPGs their bad name. However look outside those and usually the narratives, universes and characters are far better than anything in WRPGs which are pretty much all the medieval tale of an ancient evil coming to destroy the world (replace the space marines in Mass Effect with Knights and you have the same bloody thing Bioware have been telling for years).

Really again what defines RPGs is choice, while WRPGs focus on choice in terms of narrative JRPGs focus on choice in their battle mechanics. Some of the best battle systems like FFV and FFVIII give the player so much choice that the whole fun of those games is find exploits in the systems to completely break them and you are encouraged to do so.

Of course there's exceptions to the rules. Fallout 1 and 2 and planescape torment have settings and narratives that can hardly be called cliche and boring. Then there's Shin Megami Tensei and it's spin-offs like Persona that forgo the linear narratives or JRPGs and give the player a lot of choice over their narratives.

murphyebass

I'm gonna say something highly controversial...

I don't get turn based RPGs where the enemies randomly appear.

There I said it.

However like the op I'm open to change.

I recently got a vita and I think I'd stand more of a chance of playin one on a handheld so suggestions welcome.

CiDeRmAn

murphyebass wrote: »

I'm gonna say something highly controversial...

I don't get turn based RPGs where the enemies randomly appear.

There I said it.

However like the op I'm open to change.

I recently got a vita and I think I'd stand more of a chance of playin one on a handheld so suggestions welcome.

I am with you.
That whole random battle thing really really p1sses me off.
I tried Rogue Galaxy, expecting intergalactic high jinks, after coming off the highs of Knights of the Old Republic, and got a beautiful looking game but with random battles! Bugger!!!

penev10

Retr0gamer wrote: »

That extra credits video doesn't really explain much.

The second and third videos get into the narrative styles and the combat systems more, you should give them a watch.

Retr0gamer

I don't mind random battles as long as the battle system is quick and the encounter rate isn't excessive. Both of those things can kill a game very easily.

the groutch

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I don't mind random battles as long as the battle system is quick and the encounter rate isn't excessive. Both of those things can kill a game very easily.

one of the few flaws with FFX, sometimes you can barely take 5 steps without a random battle.

murphyebass

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I don't mind random battles as long as the battle system is quick and the encounter rate isn't excessive. Both of those things can kill a game very easily.

Why have them ?

If you clear an area of enemies surely it's cleared of enemies .. Oh no hang on another one just randomly appeared.

No I just don't like it. I feel it spoils the exploration.

Personally I rather the like of Zelda but it nearly more action/adventure than rpg then again rpg by it's very definition could be aligned to pretty much anything you take the role of. I'm playing through resistance on vita at the mo and I'm taking the role of a character who likes to shoot aliens

Retr0gamer

You're taking role playing game too literally. Zelda definitely isn't an RPG by its definition. Random battles were a way for developers to get over the limitations of the systems at the time. Once we got into the PS2 era they were kind of unforgivable but now you rarely see them in a RPG and in the ones that do have them they have mechanics that show when they will appear and have low encounter rates. Those are usually old school throw backs.

Random battles were actually a part of pen & paper RPGs and started in western developed games so hardly something only in jrpgs.

murphyebass

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You're taking role playing game too literally. Zelda definitely isn't an RPG by its definition. Random battles were a way for developers to get over the limitations of the systems at the time. Once we got into the PS2 era they were kind of unforgivable but now you rarely see them in a RPG and in the ones that do have them they have mechanics that show when they will appear and have low encounter rates. Those are usually old school throw backs.

Random battles were actually a part of pen & paper RPGs and started in western developed games so hardly something only in jrpgs.

cheers for that. Every days a school day!

What would be the closest example of a modern rpg version of the old school without the random battles out of curiousity

Star Lord

I'm not much of an rpg fan, so the ones I like are the ones that are a little different (mostly!)

Pokemon series
Baten kaitos
Mario & Luigi series

And the more traditional:
Golden Sun

Footy101

Star Trek A Final Unity on the PC, or any of the PC Star Trek games (Dos based). Great craic altogether!

Myrddin

Footy101 wrote: »

Star Trek A Final Unity on the PC, or any of the PC Star Trek games (Dos based)

RPG? While I enjoyed A Final Unity, it's not an RPG by any stretch

Footy101

Accepted. But still! Great memories! :-)

Myrddin

How is Super Mario RPG generally viewed? By all accounts it's pretty decent?

Nerdlingr

Loved "Defenders of Oasis" for the GameGear years ago.
But it cost a f*cking fortune at the time! think it was around 30 quid!!!

readyletsgo

New to the J/RPG games too. Finished Earthbound a while back, my first RPG games and enjoyed it and the battle system.
I was thinking of getting my 'first' pokemon game, X & Y, but as others have said, the random battle really put me off other pokemon games for some reason or another and I never give the games another look after that.

Whats peoples opinions on Pokemon and why should I get X or Y? I know people go crazy for pokemon, but why?

DinoRex

Chronotrigger is pretty much the best. Crazy how few games seemed to take what it did and evolve on it.

Grandia and Grandia 2 would be exceptions though, great battle systems.

Skies of Arcadia is great too, GameCube version might be worth going for as they thinned out the frequency of random battles.

Retr0gamer

murphyebass wrote: »

cheers for that. Every days a school day!

What would be the closest example of a modern rpg version of the old school without the random battles out of curiousity

Well if random battles aren't your thing then it just means it's not for you but some games even highly praised stuff like FFX are absolutely obnoxious for them while something like Etrian Odyssey is really good about random battles and has a much lower encounter rate.

For modern JRPGs without random battles try Persona 3, 4 or Shin Megami Tensei 4 when that comes out. Grandia would be an other good PS1 era game with no random encounters.

penev10

readyletsgo wrote: »

New to the J/RPG games too. Finished Earthbound a while back, my first RPG games and enjoyed it and the battle system.
I was thinking of getting my 'first' pokemon game, X & Y, but as others have said, the random battle really put me off other pokemon games for some reason or another and I never give the games another look after that.

Whats peoples opinions on Pokemon and why should I get X or Y? I know people go crazy for pokemon, but why?

A lot of the time you can avoid the random battles in Pokemon games. They're usually in areas of long grass etc. and often there'll be a path around it. The thing is you'll be returning to those areas trying to randomly encounter some rare pokemon for your team.

Pokemon boils down the essentials of a JRPG and does them well. The battle system is easy to comprehend and get into but deep enough to keep you interested. The levelling/team building likewise. Its just got a layer of polish on everything.

o1s1n

Have to admit, the random battles in FF VI are driving me insane at the minute. Seems like I'm in one every few steps forward.

CiDeRmAn

I think it was Dominik Diamonds last show on Sky that described the random battles as line dancing, specifically in Final Fantasy VII.

murphyebass

Thanks for that.

Maybe I'll give persona 4 a go on vita when I get a chance.

Currently a few game games ahead of it in the que though.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well if random battles aren't your thing then it just means it's not for you but some games even highly praised stuff like FFX are absolutely obnoxious for them while something like Etrian Odyssey is really good about random battles and has a much lower encounter rate.

For modern JRPGs without random battles try Persona 3, 4 or Shin Megami Tensei 4 when that comes out. Grandia would be an other good PS1 era game with no random encounters.

OwaynOTT

That's what great about Earthbound, well of many things.

Snail: Wanna fig-
Ness: WhACK!!!!!!

Hank Scorpio

o1s1n wrote: »

Have to admit, the random battles in FF VI are driving me insane at the minute. Seems like I'm in one every few steps forward.

Find Mog he has a little something that might help you out with that