Narcissistic Parent

LegacyUser

My family life has always been fraught. Though on the surface, to the outside eye, everything looks wonderful for our family, inside it is not a positive set of relationships. My mother was abused as a child and throughout my childhood she would drink, physically abuse (hit, pull hair, kick) my brother and I. Throughout all of this Dad would be the mediator - holding my mother back from hitting us. However I believe all relationships actually reflect the "power plays" my mother has on the family. It has almost been a competition: who is most loved by whom.

As a 10 year old I used to have to sleep in the same room as my mother, to be close to her. Often she would get irritated at this and scream and pull my hair about why I cried before going to sleep. I was sent to counselling but only attended two sessions because my parents didn't want to fuel my overactive imagination. The whole house was built upon the feeling that you were either in trouble, or just about to be in trouble. I still suffer from projected panic-attacks/very upset reactions if I go somewhere far away from my parents. The only way I can describe it is as if I'm afraid they're going to forget about me. Two years ago I was on placement in the US and my vivid memory of sitting weeping in my hotel room in New York - scared of something (not the city), scared of being forgotten or like I was doing something "bad" - this shows how these feelings that I had as a 10-year old are still desperately with me in adult form.

I moved out of my family home at 18 and honestly, relationships with my parents had deteriorated at that point. I made fantastic friends at University, did ok academically and really formed a new life for myself. Coming back home after University in that period between leaving college and getting a job, I decided that I wanted to fix the ailing relationships I had with my parents. I struggled because my parents were so cold and un-empathic about everything. I went out of my way to be a good daughter and, frankly, didn't want them to die and for me to regret our relationship being so poor. Around this time my mother's drinking habits spiralled out of control and over a four-year period she has managed to stop drinking and is now doing CBT. I've encouraged her to go and do things and be independent. I feel sad that she had such an awful childhood and I really wanted to be a good daughter to her. With my father, the issues are not as deep. He is a very good man, but miserly and often very cold and narcissistic. He would never ask how you are doing. When I moved back out of my family home after securing a job in another city, he stopped speaking to me for three weeks because I moved out. My Dad is ultimately harmless though. He is the son of a manipulative narcissistic mother but I honestly feel that his behaviour is just someone who is just selfish and miserly. He continues to repeatedly "enable" my mother though - any lapses in her sobriety have been paid for by him. He wouldn't go to a co-counselling meeting with her (again, his selfishness).

While I believe my relationship with Dad is much improved, it's my mother whose behaviour still makes life hell. I am just finishing a dissertation and moved home in August to finish writing the project up. So I'm back at home until June or so and then will hopefully find a job asap. While I was happy to move home because I felt like all of the serious issues we as a family have had been somewhat resolved, I've found myself struggling. My mother is a Narcissistic Parent. She has no empathy, I can clearly see how everyone in the family is positioned in her scheme of narcissism. I am the "golden child", my brother the "scapegoat", my father "the enabler". Reading about narcissistic parents I've realised my entire life - even the good intentions I had in trying to make a good relationship with my parents - it all reflects how my role is to make life easy, to oblige my mother in every way. When we are talking, I actually say to her "am I talking too much" because I'm afraid of being too "full on" to her. She has the ability to close the emotional door on me, at any given moment or time. The hurt and pain I feel because of this, I can't even describe. I don't even know if I'm articulating myself properly here. But everything is on tenterhooks and dependent on how she feels. I see myself carrying out her "scapegoating" onto my lovely little brother. Both of us are fixated on our body image (something I rarely think about when I do not live at home) even though we are both healthy and fit.

On Sunday I had to go down to Dublin to do an interview with a magazine. My bus was at 11.30 and at 10.50 my mother declared that she "did not feel" like giving me a lift into town to catch my bus. This left it so I had to frantically call a taxi, pay €20 for the lift and completely lost the run of myself. I left the house in disarray, in floods of tears. My mother didn't wish me well, my brain was totally fried from the morning upset and the joy of speaking to the journalist was taken from me as a result of my mother's about-turn in action and emotion. She constantly does this to me on the day of important events in my career. I had a story published once and was nervous about reading it in front of family members so I said I would prefer that no-one came to the reading. She didn't speak to me for weeks afterwards. This may sound like I'm making a mountain out of a molehill but it feels like hell living through this. I never know where I am, I never feel deserving of any kinds of positive comment. Any emotion or feeling I have is dismissed. I feel like I need validation.

My family home is also a den of negativity. We never have visitors, my parents don't have any friends really. Dad does have some friends from when he was a young man but Mum doesn't like them and so he sees them rarely. My dad is a completely different person when she is not around. Mum makes disparaging remarks about my friends, is negative about people relentlessly. I find it very heavy.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I know something isn't right. In my "actual life" when I lived in the city working or studying, I have a lovely circle of friends who are supportive and good people. I laugh a lot, go for nice dinners and enjoy life without guilt. I've been back at home for just over two months and I feel crippled and unloved and stressed. Normally I am a positive, friendly, happy person. I believe in counselling. I went to counselling about my parents and before moving home, I had found a way to deal with them. I listen to my mother, encourage her, support her at CBT etc. However, after the events of the weekend where she again purposely ruined an important event for me, I've taken it very hard. Because I'm stuck at home writing up (this decision was financially motivated) I need to figure out a way that I can deal with this behaviour.

I can't change my mother. Even though I am a positive person who believes in bettering oneself, I think my mother is probably the "best" version of her self that she can be. But there's no empathy. I feel like a bother, I live my life trying to please her. I live my life feeling like I'm either "in trouble" or about to be "in trouble". I'm 28 and still talking about "trouble" in this very childish way. How can I get through the next few months? It feels impossible to "cut her out" even if I wasn't living under the same roof as her. I feel sorry for her but am constantly deeply wounded by her behaviour. Even if I called her out on the narcissism she would just roll her eyes and never think about it again. I've come to the realisation she is a very toxic individual.

I would really like advice about how to deal with this. I feel at my wits end and need my brain to be thinking about other things, e.g. the dissertation I'm working on. I'm just so hurt and feel so vulnerable and used and upset.

listen_lady

Reading over your post I must commend you for being the obviously positive and kind individual you've bloomed into despite everything you've been through in your childhood and with your parents.

As you said, you can't change your mother. From personal experience, I think the best thing for you to do would be to keep your relationship with her "strictly business" i.e. only dealing with her when you absolutely have to. I know this may sound harsh but in the long run, it will save you a world of pain and heartache. Narcissists, in many ways, are the most damaged and damaging people I've ever encountered in my life and I steer clear of them whenever possible, for my sanity and emotional balance.

You may be able to maintain a relationship with your father where your mother isn't a factor but the sad truth is he's even more caught in her orbit than you because he's married to her.

I hope any advice I've given helps, even if it is just to know that there are other people who can relate to your situation.

Oh, and one last bit of advice: move out as soon as possible!

The Corinthian

There is absolutely nothing you can do about it. My grandmother was like that, although narcissism was simply, albeit a large, part of the problem, as she probably could have been better described as a borderline personality. I've met at least one other person in my life that would fit a very simelar description.

They don't change or improve - if anything age makes these negative traits worse. Even if you feel you have a breakthrough with them, after some long argument, it'll be reversed within days or even hours - it's their nature and genuinely beyond their control.

All you can do is 'contain' them. By that I mean limit the damage they can do to you or others by limiting contact and/or maintaining a more controlled relationship that does not give them the opportunity to cause damage to others (e.g. with the example you gave, you should have presumed no lift from her from the start).

So honestly, I would stick to such a strategy - containment and damage limitation - and otherwise get on with your life.

moochers

First things first, sorry to veer off topic for a moment but you are a wonderful writer. You mentioned that you had a piece published and I am not surprised, you are very talented.

Ok back to topic. You have terribly dysfunctional parents and what you had to endure as a child and now as an adult is terrible. You are not the one at fault and you should never shoulder any blame, they failed you as parents from day one. Your mother is an alcoholic and instead of coming to terms with her addiction and personal abuse through counseling, she tooks the cowards way out and burdened you and your brother with her frustrations. Your father does enable her and instead of protecting his children from her toxic outbursts decided to side with her. Shame on both of them.

You have turned out to be very resilient and very strong and all your great attributes are down to you. You are powerless to change them, and as you rightly pointed out they are narcissistic and are too selfish to change and instead prefer to wallow in their own personal hell. As soon as you can, move out. You have invested all you can in this relationship and if they are not willing to change, that is their loss. Best of luck Op.

fillefatale

The Corinthian wrote: »

They don't change or improve - if anything age makes these negative traits worse. Even if you feel you have a breakthrough with them, after some long argument, it'll be reversed within days or even hours - it's their nature and genuinely beyond their control.

So honestly, I would stick to such a strategy - containment and damage limitation - and otherwise get on with your life.

I completely agree with damage limitation. They will never ever change, as you say. Its frustrating that they still exert such control over us as adults, and because of financial constraints that you have to endure the same emotional damage they inflicted upon you as a child. You are an intelligent, caring individual, worth so much more than she is giving you. You have the drive to succeed and when you do secure a job, walk out that door and never look back, they don't deserve it.

marizpan

I haven't spook to my mother in a year. Any birthday cards she sends the kids are returned unopened to her.
Best thing I ever did, only regret I didn't do it as a teenager.
Every year spent with her was a year of my life wasted. I can now see the wood from the trees.
I am a better person now, better confidence etc.
I highly recommend it. You have to understand that they will never ever change. Your relationship will never improve, or be picture perfect. She will never give you approval or enough love.
She will never be the person you want/need her to be.
Knowing this, would you still hang around waiting for her to change?

Queen-Mise

marizpan wrote: »

Knowing this, would you still hang around waiting for her to change?

Going to rephrase this: why are you hanging around waiting for her to change?

You can't change your mother, only how you deal with her (TBH to me, she sounds like an alcoholic - and they are notoriously self-involved, selfish, and self centred.)

You are hanging onto the childish hope of a Little House in the Prairie relationship - it aint going to happen. Although we would all wish it to otherwise. Until she decides that her life doesn't work, she is not going to change, nor will she want to.

I also think you are being overly hard on your Dad, I'm surprised he is not more neurotic/insane considering the situation he has lived with over the past 30 odd years.

Bring it to back to yourself - put up your boundaries, so your mam's behaviour doesn't affect your emotional/mental health on any given day.

dipdip

You will never, ever have the mother you want. You will never have the relationship with her that you want. Are you prepared to accept this?

You are chasing after the wind.

Move out. You are in a co dependent relationship with your mother.

Mourn what you do not have: what you never had. Treat it like a bereavement. Mourn and move on. There is nothing else to be done and if you don't, you'll hit breaking point.

You are an adult woman. You are a good daughter. You will never get her approval so stop wasting your life. Get out of this toxic relationship.

Merkin

dipdip wrote: »

You will never, ever have the mother you want. You will never have the relationship with her that you want. Are you prepared to accept this?

You are chasing after the wind.

Move out. You are in a co dependent relationship with your mother.

I couldn't have put it more succinctly OP.

These two issues are what need to be addressed. The moment you stop hankering after a loving mother daughter relationship as well as recognising the toxicity of the obvious codependency at play is the moment you can start building your life as a self contained adult.

clairefontaine

I have a family member just like this. And have come across others like it. Bear in mind it could be BPD, which also has narcissistic traits. It's easy to take one for the other, big difference is one can be cured and the other can't.

There has also been sufficient research done making connections between narcissistic mothers being the source behind BPD in their children. Another reason to move away and grieve. Should she be narcisstic. The only hope for BPD is that there is effective therapy for it.

Anyway, the only solution is to sustain what relationship you can with your father, and say goodbye to your mother and go through that grieving process. It's a hard and committed decision so don't take it lightly. There's very little middle ground here. And it will hurt, because who doesn't want to have a mother who loves them? It's the most basic fundamenta of us. You need to find a way to become entirely independant of validation from anyone. And self parent in a 100% way. It's literally for your survival.

So until you can move out and be free of her, develop some strategies to handle it. Try reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and do some reading up on narcissism because that might help too. Hang in there.

The Corinthian

fillefatale wrote: »

I completely agree with damage limitation. They will never ever change, as you say.

It's not that they will never change, it's that they cannot.

It's like the old parable of the scorpion and the frog - unfortunately that is their nature and while you may occasionally feel the message is getting across, that they realize what they're doing is ultimately harmful to everyone, including themselves, these 'lucid moments' are temporary - any progress never sticks, as it were.

clairefontaine wrote: »

The only hope for BPD is that there is effective therapy for it.

Is there? I would have thought it difficult to treat as those with such disorders will typically not even knowledge that there is a problem in the first place, and even if they do will revert to type shortly after anyway.

clairefontaine

The Corinthian wrote: »

It's not that they will never change, it's that they cannot.

It's like the old parable of the scorpion and the frog - unfortunately that is their nature and while you may occasionally feel the message is getting across, that they realize what they're doing is ultimately harmful to everyone, including themselves, these 'lucid moments' are temporary - any progress never sticks, as it were.

Is there? I would have thought it difficult to treat as those with such disorders will typically not even knowledge that there is a problem in the first place, and even if they do will revert to type shortly after anyway.

Yes there are new therapies that are working for BPD. Maybe "reverting to type" is not the best way of looking at it, but like a long term illness that needs care so that it does not come out of remission.

LegacyUser

OP here. Thanks so much for all replies, they've definitely given me something to think about. I think because I had been living away from home and had sought counselling previously, I thought moving back would be ok. But in fact it seems as though the physical distance may have been the most active "ingredient" there, rather than me overcoming any issues. As it is, I am at home until June at the very latest. This is the final stage of my dissertation and I need to devote 24/7 to it and don't have the finances to move out.

The Corinthian wrote: »

All you can do is 'contain' them. By that I mean limit the damage they can do to you or others by limiting contact and/or maintaining a more controlled relationship that does not give them the opportunity to cause damage to others (e.g. with the example you gave, you should have presumed no lift from her from the start).

This really made me see things differently. A huge problem was that I did think she would give me a lift, considering she actually said she would. I definitely think this is a good example of how I need to retrain my thinking. I should have presumed no lift from the start. Seeing it written on the screen makes it so clear.

dipdip wrote: »

You will never, ever have the mother you want. You will never have the relationship with her that you want. Are you prepared to accept this?

You are chasing after the wind.

Move out. You are in a co dependent relationship with your mother.

Mourn what you do not have: what you never had. Treat it like a bereavement. Mourn and move on. There is nothing else to be done and if you don't, you'll hit breaking point.

You are an adult woman. You are a good daughter. You will never get her approval so stop wasting your life. Get out of this toxic relationship.

I suppose I wrinkle to think that I'm in a "co dependent" relationship with my mother. But I do seek her approval, I am a "captive audience" for her. It's difficult because I do think she is the way she is because she herself has been abused and I feel really sorry for her. Sometimes she can be so nice and I do feel so validated, but as I said in my previous post it's all based on an uneasy premise. The times we do sit and talk over a cup of tea I do say "oh sorry am I talking too much?" or I have to ask for a hug... Which sounds so juvenile and embarrassing but I've kind of normalised it and it doesn't sound so bad until I write it down and objectively look at what I'm saying.

It's difficult because I want to see the best in her, but if I don't do her "bidding" or I do something that is social and doesn't involve her, there are huge mental repercussions. Objectively I can see that I'm never going to have the relationship I want with her. And by and large I am a positive person, but the huge need for validation I have, the need to feel loved is sometimes overwhelming. As you rightly point out, how can I miss what I've never had? Accepting that this is just the way things are frightens me though because I suppose it means that I give hope of ever being loved the way I want to be loved. And now I'm going around in circles...

I really appreciate the advice. It has been beneficial to see the words written on screen. Makes it more hard fact than my emotions. I think I'm going to keep the "don't presume that she will do anything for me" mantra in my mind from now on. I think I'm going to need to establish some kind of different attitude where I can be emotionally detached from my mother. I would like to offer kindness because I don't think I could absolutely cut her out of my life. Is it possible for me to detach and reframe her position in my life but also be kind to her?

Since Sunday I have been coolly pleasant to her. If I'm making tea I would offer her a cup, etc. She asked about Dublin and all that when I got home and I just said "it was fine" and moved on. There is a large part of me that wants to apologise for treating her in this cool manner, I feel like I want to say I'm sorry and hug her. But actually I haven't done anything wrong and I need to begin to curb my desire to get affection from her. I am quite an affectionate person though so it's difficult. If I can try and keep her politely at distance and not get too suckered into her game plays (e.g. getting me into a conversation where I am so glad she is speaking to me and showing interest that I absolve any past bad treatment) maybe I can find a way to get through the next few months before I leave home again for good.

dipdip

rubytyesday wrote: »

I really appreciate the advice. It has been beneficial to see the words written on screen. Makes it more hard fact than my emotions. I think I'm going to keep the "don't presume that she will do anything for me" mantra in my mind from now on. I think I'm going to need to establish some kind of different attitude where I can be emotionally detached from my mother. I would like to offer kindness because I don't think I could absolutely cut her out of my life. Is it possible for me to detach and reframe her position in my life but also be kind to her?

Since Sunday I have been coolly pleasant to her. If I'm making tea I would offer her a cup, etc. She asked about Dublin and all that when I got home and I just said "it was fine" and moved on. There is a large part of me that wants to apologise for treating her in this cool manner, I feel like I want to say I'm sorry and hug her. But actually I haven't done anything wrong and I need to begin to curb my desire to get affection from her. I am quite an affectionate person though so it's difficult. If I can try and keep her politely at distance and not get too suckered into her game plays (e.g. getting me into a conversation where I am so glad she is speaking to me and showing interest that I absolve any past bad treatment) maybe I can find a way to get through the next few months before I leave home again for good.

You might have a skewed view of kindness. You are desperate for affection from her. You are too close to see things as a well adjusted adult might.

I know you don't think you can, but you absolutely should move out. You never should have moved back in. You chose to. You have made yourself dependent on her, not just emotionally, but financially. You are clearly getting something out of all this drama. What is it? Whatever it is, it is stunting you.

My advice is to find a means of survival separate from your parents. And fast. You need to cut the unhealthy ties. Ring occasionally, send nice birthday and Christmas cards, pop in every now and again. End every single conversation that is critical of you. Put down the phone, leave the building. Stop asking for affection. Stop it. Find your affection elsewhere. You are sitting in a lion's mouth and then crying when it bites you.

I have no doubt you have been through hell. You need to become an adult now and put it all behind you.

Mayboy

I've no advice except to say that I hope you are being kind to yourself. You carry wounds that are open from time to time and this is painful. The past has left a scar but please, please, please look at all the positives - you sound WONDERFUL.
I wish you happiness & kindness.

Queen-Mise

rubytyesday wrote: »

Is it possible for me to detach and reframe her position in my life but also be kind to her?

Since Sunday I have been coolly pleasant to her. If I'm making tea I would offer her a cup, etc. She asked about Dublin and all that when I got home and I just said "it was fine" and moved on. There is a large part of me that wants to apologise for treating her in this cool manner, I feel like I want to say I'm sorry and hug her. But actually I haven't done anything wrong and I need to begin to curb my desire to get affection from her. I am quite an affectionate person though so it's difficult. If I can try and keep her politely at distance and not get too suckered into her game plays (e.g. getting me into a conversation where I am so glad she is speaking to me and showing interest that I absolve any past bad treatment) maybe I can find a way to get through the next few months before I leave home again for good.

Of course you can be kind, thoughtful, etc. etc. The trick is learning how to do those things without being drawn into the games/dramas.

I'd see if you could find some counselling again near you - it would do you so much good. Learning practical strategies for dealing with your parents while you are in the house - you can see what works and doesn't. And then you would have those skills for the future.

Some of this you have touched on above - figure out what are your issues versus your mother's, e.g. the affection. Are you affectionate generally, is it looking for validation from your mam, or is it a reaction from your childhood - that you look for it everywhere.

clairefontaine

rubytyesday wrote: »

OP here. Thanks so much for all replies, they've definitely given me something to think about. I think because I had been living away from home and had sought counselling previously, I thought moving back would be ok. But in fact it seems as though the physical distance may have been the most active "ingredient" there, rather than me overcoming any issues. As it is, I am at home until June at the very latest. This is the final stage of my dissertation and I need to devote 24/7 to it and don't have the finances to move out.



This really made me see things differently. A huge problem was that I did think she would give me a lift, considering she actually said she would. I definitely think this is a good example of how I need to retrain my thinking. I should have presumed no lift from the start. Seeing it written on the screen makes it so clear.



I suppose I wrinkle to think that I'm in a "co dependent" relationship with my mother. But I do seek her approval, I am a "captive audience" for her. It's difficult because I do think she is the way she is because she herself has been abused and I feel really sorry for her. Sometimes she can be so nice and I do feel so validated, but as I said in my previous post it's all based on an uneasy premise. The times we do sit and talk over a cup of tea I do say "oh sorry am I talking too much?" or I have to ask for a hug... Which sounds so juvenile and embarrassing but I've kind of normalised it and it doesn't sound so bad until I write it down and objectively look at what I'm saying.

It's difficult because I want to see the best in her, but if I don't do her "bidding" or I do something that is social and doesn't involve her, there are huge mental repercussions. Objectively I can see that I'm never going to have the relationship I want with her. And by and large I am a positive person, but the huge need for validation I have, the need to feel loved is sometimes overwhelming. As you rightly point out, how can I miss what I've never had? Accepting that this is just the way things are frightens me though because I suppose it means that I give hope of ever being loved the way I want to be loved. And now I'm going around in circles...

I really appreciate the advice. It has been beneficial to see the words written on screen. Makes it more hard fact than my emotions. I think I'm going to keep the "don't presume that she will do anything for me" mantra in my mind from now on. I think I'm going to need to establish some kind of different attitude where I can be emotionally detached from my mother. I would like to offer kindness because I don't think I could absolutely cut her out of my life. Is it possible for me to detach and reframe her position in my life but also be kind to her?

Since Sunday I have been coolly pleasant to her. If I'm making tea I would offer her a cup, etc. She asked about Dublin and all that when I got home and I just said "it was fine" and moved on. There is a large part of me that wants to apologise for treating her in this cool manner, I feel like I want to say I'm sorry and hug her. But actually I haven't done anything wrong and I need to begin to curb my desire to get affection from her. I am quite an affectionate person though so it's difficult. If I can try and keep her politely at distance and not get too suckered into her game plays (e.g. getting me into a conversation where I am so glad she is speaking to me and showing interest that I absolve any past bad treatment) maybe I can find a way to get through the next few months before I leave home again for good.

Until you learn to self validate or get it elsewhere, you are quite bluntly going to end up destroyed. Go to Alanon too.

Either your mother will destroy you or you will end up with your own mental health issues and disorders that will destroy you and others.

Merkin

clairefontaine wrote: »

Until you learn to self validate or get it elsewhere, you are quite bluntly going to end up destroyed. Go to Alanon too.

Either your mother will destroy you or you will end up with your own mental health issues and disorders that will destroy you and others.

I think it imperative that the OP moves out also lest this happens. I know you say this is not feasible at present OP but your own mental health should be protected as a matter of priority.