fear of settling down and having kids

LegacyUser · 30-09-2013 9:37pm #1

Hi all

Long time member going unreg for this.

In a LDR for over 2 years with a girl from London. She's moving to Dublin, she got a job offer, we're moving in together. I’m 27 she’s 29. All good so far.

Kids were mentioned about a year in. I kept putting off talking about it then as I was uncomfortable with the idea. We revisited after 6 months, I said I didn't feel like I wanted to have them now and, while I couldn't say I'd feel that way forever, I wasn't sure what I'd feel in the future. She got really upset. It seems like both of us were aware this was a huge issue and I honestly thought we'd break up the first weekend that happened. Maybe I should have done it but I felt as if I was happy with what we had and if she wasn't then she should break up with me, after all I wasn’t the one bringing up the issue. We kind of made up after a bit and reached a sort of “compromise” that I wasn't fundamentally opposed to the idea of kids per se and really that was all she needed to know.

Anyway, she's moving over here in a few weeks. On our last time together, I asked her straight out what her plan was for kids. Bottom line, assuming things work out, she wants us to start trying in two years. I said I was thinking more like 5 years, when we'd be 32/34.

I didn't think that was all that unreasonable. She freaked out again, started crying. I said I didn't want to have kids too early as I'd resent them and it wouldn't be fair on them. She said we had to compromise. I'm willing to compromise on pretty much everything in the relationship but kids aren't one of them. I always thought kids were something both parties would have to be completely ready for.

Also, I can't help but feel like she wants kids no matter what and the guy she has them with is somewhat of a secondary consideration. It seems like we’ve followed the same pattern each time it comes up:

1. We 'talk' about kids

2. I try to be honest about it and tell her how I feel.

3. She gets upset that I don’t want them as soon as she does / I’m unwilling to commit to a timeframe/ that I won’t compromise.

4. I say something to keep her happy and because I’m afraid to lose her, and each time the timeframe to kids gets shorter. I’ve gone (without really being asked) from not wanting them, to maybe wanting them, to starting to try in two years’ time and I feel like I’m being railroaded into something I don’t want.

I want to travel, have worked abroad and may want to do that again and the thought of settling down in the suburbs in a 3 bed semi D with a mortgage and two sprogs is ****ing terrifying to me, especially in Ireland.

I love her, I know she's put her cards on the table by moving to where I am (although I have a steady job here and she was finishing a masters when she decided although she now has a job offer), and I am happy with our relationship (and I know she is too except on this point). I think all the talk of kids is premature but ultimately, kids is her issue and not mine and if she’s not happy with it being just us for a few more years then we should break up. But it seems neither I nor she has the courage to say it. I think she hopes I’ll change my mind and I’m worried if we keep on this course then I’ll be worn down and effectively railroaded into something I don’t want or an ‘accident’ might happen that puts an end to the debate.

What should I do? Being honest about it hasn’t helped, I just get the same story about how we ‘need to compromise and I’m being unreasonable’ followed by waterworks and massive guilt on my part. The thing is, we’re completely happy apart from that and never really fight about anything else. I really don’t know what else to say but all thoughts welcome.

iusedtoknow · 30-09-2013 10:01pm

Being honest is your only way, perhaps your gf is hoping you'll come round to her ideas. You need to have a straight conversation with her, telling her that it IS a deal breaker for you - if you are really that set on things. You feel you're being railroaded, but in all honesty, you may need to break up with her over this if she is being equally uncompromising. Much better to have a painful breakup and aftermath than to fall into something you don't want, and even worse...for kids to come into a life where they aren't fully wanted.

One thing though, why just because you have kids do you HAVE to have the house with the mortgage in the suburbs etc. I know plenty of people who move abroad with kids, live in apartments etc. You may need to readjust your viewpoint on this as well. One friend of mine is just back from 6 months travelling around South America with her husband and 2 year old - a friend of my wife's is just on the way to take up a new job in Hong Kong (from Spain) with his wife and new born twins.

Virgil° · 30-09-2013 10:04pm

Honestly I think you're being a bit unfair on her and shes not being very smart.

Both for the same reason. What happens OP in 5 years? What happens if you stay together for another 5 years and then the relationship fails or you still don't want children. You will effectively have robbed this girl of her window to safely have children. And she'll have let you do it.

I think this relationship probably isn't going to work unless you compromise and agree to have children earlier. Otherwise moving in together is in my opinion just leading her on. Shes being foolish hoping that you'll change your mind no doubt, but if you definitely won't compromise then you owe it to her to let her go find someone who wants the same as her rather than moving in with her and feeding her false hope as a result.

It not an enviable position youre in but thats my two cents anyway OP.

All the best.

Czarcasm · 30-09-2013 10:20pm

unreg_2109 wrote: »

What should I do? Being honest about it hasn’t helped, I just get the same story about how we ‘need to compromise and I’m being unreasonable’ followed by waterworks and massive guilt on my part. The thing is, we’re completely happy apart from that and never really fight about anything else. I really don’t know what else to say but all thoughts welcome.

Except you haven't been honest about it really. I mean, you fear losing this girl over such a fundamental issue as this and your biggest concern is you don't want to break up with her because you'll look like "the bad guy". For christ sake stop this "I feel guilty so we compromise" and "I'm worried she'll wear me down" nonsense and just tell this girl straight out that you don't want children.

There's nothing wrong with not wanting children, there IS something wrong however with telling somebody you're willing to compromise with them, just to keep them happy, giving them false hope just so they'll stay with you. There's not a whole lot more selfish tbh.

You clearly don't trust this girl either if you haven't yet even moved in together and you're already thinking she'll "trick" you into getting her pregnant. That's hardly saying you think a whole lot of her tbh.

You're having it all your own way here OP, I wouldn't blame you for not wanting to give that up, but if you genuinely care about this girl like you say you do, then do as you're already saying yourself and let her go find someone that DOES want to have children with her and settle down with a house and some stability in her life rather than hanging on your broken promises.

In the long run you'll also be doing yourself a favor and you'll be doing your children a favor rather than being resentful of them for "trapping" you in a guilt ridden relationship. You'll also be doing this girl a bigger favor than I think she'll ever realise.

3DataModem · 30-09-2013 10:25pm

"Ready" for kids? What does that really even mean?

seosamh1980 · 30-09-2013 11:01pm

OP just to be clear if you started trying to have kids when she was 34 it may not happen until she's 36, that puts her in the older end of the spectrum for having babies, particularly first babies. If she/you want another she could be nearly 40 having it, which is not ideal. In fairness to her she's been honest about what she wants and when she wants it, she knows she wants children so wants to start on it as early as she can, ensuring she has healthy children, easy pregnancies and time to have 1-2 more if she wants.

It's the age old thing, you could put off having kids for another 20 years if you wanted, but she can't. At 29 she's right to be considering starting in two years if children are what she wants. You have to let her know how you feel, and you can't keep holding onto her with half truths hoping it'll work itself out, if she wants children and that ends up having to be with someone else you're robbing her of fertile years by stalling the inevitable.

LegacyUser · 30-09-2013 11:09pm

Op here, thanks for the replies. I agree, I haven't been wholly up front about it in the sense I take a position and step back on it leaving her thinking we've agreed something and really I'm not on the same page. I tried to address it last time by saying straight out (I quote) 'I don't want to have kids in the next 5 years and to be honest if that's a dealbreaker then maybe you shouldn't move'. That was a clear as I could put it and I got a response back saying I was an asshole given she's leaving everything and coming over, etc. Late in the day to be saying it I know but I'd tried it 6 months earlier and same story. Ended up apologising and saying we'd work something out just like the last time too.

She's also made roundabout comments about guys 'being such dicks for breaking up with girls telling them to find someone who can give them what they want', implication being that any guy breaking up with his girlfriend rather than giving her the family she wants is a dick.

To clarify something, I do trust her but I guess I'm concerned that eventually she might get impatient for want of a better word.

LegacyUser · 01-10-2013 12:31am

3DataModem wrote: »

"Ready" for kids? What does that really even mean?

I would think that many people would choose to have kids into a loving stable relationship, where they were reasonably sorted financially, had fulfilled most of their wander-lust / fancy-free desires, were headed in a good direction with their career, were on the same page as their partner re outlook on life, and absolutely knew that they wanted kids. I would consider that to be totally ready for kids.

Of course thats the optimum, in order to minimse future relationship strive, and instability for future kids. I'm sure there's varying degrees of having the above in place, where things still work out fine, albeit with more stress. But the OP by his own admission doesn't seem tick enough of those boxes to make it work, especially the really wanting kids, so he's not ready! I think he has been fairly clear on that - although perhaps not clear enough to his partner.

LegacyUser · 01-10-2013 12:36am

At the moment you are going out with a woman who is 29 years of age who is moving over from London to be with you. She is leaving friends and family behind to do this.
She has been honest with you and told you that she want to try for a family in the next 2 to 3 years when she is 31/32.

I am going to be honest here - you want this woman but you are unwilling to make any changes to your life to have her in it long term. You are asking her to make major changes to her life for you but you have told her I won't try for children with you untill I am 32 and you are 34. From what you have told us I think you will make excuses at this stage as you won't be the centre of attention in your girlfriends life.
Every thing is about your life, what you want and what suits you.

You have asked this woman to move to Ireland and live with you on your terms.
You know that having children is important to your girlfreind so rather telling her I am to immature to think of anyone but myself I will tell you that we will have children.
You could be asking her to give up any chance of have a family if she stays with you and waits for you to grow up.

Your girlfriend is right to want to start to trying to get pregnant at 31/32 as this will give her the best chance to have a family.
One of my freinds started to try for a baby at 32/33. Over the following number of years she had medical tests in regards to this as did her husband. She had 2 miscarriages and eventuly had a baby via ivf just before she was 40.
I know several woman who now have 2/3 children but have been pregnant 5 or 6 times.
I have a friend who is currently pregnant with her 2nd child and she just turned 35. She had a miscarriage early this year. Most of her friends have at least one child and any of them with 2 or 3 children had there 2nd child within 18 to 24 months of the 1st child. They were aware that once they hit 35 is would be harder to get pregnant and they would have a higher chance of having a disabled child.

I am telling you the above to show you that you can't expect your girlfriend to move in with you and expect her to wait for 5 years before you try for a baby when she is 34/35 years old.
At that age she could discover that she has problems, could have a few miscarriages and will have a higher chance of having a disabled child.

She has been honest with you by saying that she wants to try for a baby when she is 31/32 and it is time you were honest with her by telling her I am to selfish to have a baby as I won't be able to do what I want when you have a child.

Calhoun · 01-10-2013 1:15am

Op, where do you see yourself going with her? No offence but there is allot of maybe's, what if' sand inaction . When I met my wife I knew I wanted to build a future with her, the where and when didn't matter as I don't have control over it we are still figuring that out as we go along.

It's time to man up and decide where you want to go from here, your options If you really love her are, 1. Break it off with her and let her find someone who wants to build a future her, or 2. Plan a future with her that you actually aren't afraid of, this may mean compromising to some extent.

It's as simple as this you either see a future with her or you don't , whatever you do at least do it before she moves here . As your the one with the problem you have to be the one to bring the relationship to the next step good or bad .

desbrook · 01-10-2013 4:38am

I think honest answers are needed here to a few questions. If she from day one was telling you that she didn't want kids ever would you be okay with that? If you would then go find another girlfriend. As has been said there's nothing wrong with not wanting kids. There is something wrong with being dishonest about the fact.
If the answer is no then you really want your cake and eat it. You are in effect saying that she must pace up and down and wait until you CHANGE your mind and you want kids. There are no gaurantees you will either so there's a real chance she will throw away her child bearing years waiting on you. That's why she's crying.
It's a classic case if both wanting different things. She deserves the truth.

LegacyUser · 01-10-2013 6:59am

lady daisy wrote: »

... telling her I am to selfish to have a baby as I won't be able to do what I want when you have a child.

Well that's a little simplistic really - and one sided. Why not turn it on its head, and say that she's too selfish to consider all of the things he wants to do, because she is valuing possible future offspring a over her partner?

If he wanted to live in Fiji and play bongos all day long, that's his choice. If she wants to pop out child after child until she hits menopause, that's her choice. Neither are inherently selfish.

The problem is that they are both - quite rightly - sticking to what they want; but neither one has the balls to lay it on the line. She is engaged in emotional warfare, and he waters down his view when he's cornered. Neither of their points of view are selfish - but both of their actions are.

Tbh, I think it's pretty obvious that they should split - having kids is not exactly something that you can compromise on, and there's always going to be resentment on whichever side 'lost'.

letssee7 · 01-10-2013 8:53am

3DataModem wrote: »

"Ready" for kids? What does that really even mean?

Kids are a huge responsibility. As a man I would have to feel confident that I would be a great father. Personally like op I would see this add my early 30s not mid 20s

ManOfMystery · 01-10-2013 9:08am

I think this is a no-win situation to be honest.

She is totally within her rights to want kids now. And you're totally within your rights to not want kids now. There's no right or wrong, just different desires on both sides.

Only you and her can say whether this incompability in your life plans is a deal-breaker or not. Whilst I appreciate that you feel you're trying to be honest with her, I think at this stage you have to decide whether this woman is going to be in the rest of your life or not. And if so, then it's time to mentally prepare yourself to make some changes to your way of thinking, especially with regards to a future. This isn't just going to be your future any more - it's a shared future with her. She's made some drastic changes to her life in order to further your relationship, so it's only fair that it work both ways.

McDonnellDean · 01-10-2013 11:21am

Let me give you some insight into my angle,

My other half is older than me so we needed to sort out the "Kids" issue about two years ago. Having kids later in life may suit you as a man but women do have a window which when past puts them and the child at risk in general terms.

I wasn't really up for having a kid, my work involves me having to do a lot of after hours research and I do like to play the xbox and spend time with the missus. There was also the fact that I came from a large family and know that kids are ****s a lot of the time.

However, and I preface this with the fact that I hate everyone else kids still to this day, there is a bond you have with your own kid that makes you think they are much better than everyone else. There is also a certain wonder in watching your own child develop. It's hard to explain but its some sort of in built thing to stop us killing our young. All of those feelings of panic about not being able to spend time with each other and having no time kind of go away as long as you are both there for each other and you help when the going gets tough.

If you really love this woman you need to really consider what you are doing. There is no right time to have a kid.

Finally, if you really don't like the idea of ever having kids, which is completely acceptable, you need to phone that woman and call it quits because if you drag it on for 5 years and it becomes harder or impossible to have kids or you refuse she will resent you for life.

seenitall · 01-10-2013 11:43am

unreg_2109 wrote: »

Op here, thanks for the replies. I agree, I haven't been wholly up front about it in the sense I take a position and step back on it leaving her thinking we've agreed something and really I'm not on the same page. I tried to address it last time by saying straight out (I quote) 'I don't want to have kids in the next 5 years and to be honest if that's a dealbreaker then maybe you shouldn't move'. That was a clear as I could put it and I got a response back saying I was an asshole given she's leaving everything and coming over, etc. Late in the day to be saying it I know but I'd tried it 6 months earlier and same story. Ended up apologising and saying we'd work something out just like the last time too.

She's also made roundabout comments about guys 'being such dicks for breaking up with girls telling them to find someone who can give them what they want', implication being that any guy breaking up with his girlfriend rather than giving her the family she wants is a dick.

To clarify something, I do trust her but I guess I'm concerned that eventually she might get impatient for want of a better word.

Hi OP,

Red flags all over the place, I'm afraid. Emotional manipulation and coercion (I agree with you, the kind of things above that your gf has been saying to you are pure guilt-tripping and railroading in order to get the result she wants, and dam the consequences) are not a sign of either a mature and responsible person, or the best start to a life together.

I'm sorry, but judging by her MO so far, I wouldn't trust this woman as far as I could throw her, especially now that she is coming to join you.

For your part, you have contributed to this mess by being too scared of losing her to break it off with her, but it must be clear as day to you by now, that either you are going to have to be without her in your life, or you are going to become a father in a not-too-distant future.

The choice is yours.

If you choose the former option, you HAVE TO break up with your gf.

If it's the latter, learn to accept that you have made a choice at this juncture as well; as railroaded as you (justifiably) feel, she never held a gun to your head though. You could have walked away. It will be easier to live with the consequences of your choices if you accept the responsibility for them.

Best wishes.

Tramps Like Us · 01-10-2013 11:58am

OP you are never ready to have kids, and if you think you are then that changes quickly.

Its not fair to ask her to wait four or five years. TBH I think two years is fair enough, especially considering it can another year maybe, even on top of that to actually get pregnant, plus nine months pregnancy. So when she says 2 years it will actually be at least three years before the baby arrives.

It's quite simple, she has a ticking clock, you don't. If you love her and want to spend the rest of your life with her, then having a kid is the price you'll have to pay. Its a scary idea but lots of people seem to like having kids.

Tigger99 · 01-10-2013 12:35pm

That's a horrific assertion - that kids are a price to pay to stay with this girl.

Look OP you are fudging around this issue as deep down you know if you have an honest conversation it could result in you breaking up. But there are worse things that could happen than that.

She could fall pregnant soon and you could feel trapped

You could decide in 5 years that you don't want kids and possibly take that option away from her forever (by the time she found someone else and they were ready to have kids it could be too late for her)

You both needs to find some guts and have this conversation now and none of this messing because she cries or you feel bad. That's not going to solve anything

njs030 · 01-10-2013 12:43pm

She's going to cry a lot more if you force yourself to have kids with her before your ready and the pressure causes you to break up and leaves her alone.

You have every right to decide when you are ready and so does she- if you can't find a genuine compromise (one that's not forced) then you have to accept your incompatible.

Tramps Like Us · 01-10-2013 1:02pm

Tigger99 wrote: »

That's a horrific assertion - that kids are a price to pay to stay with this girl.

Look OP you are fudging around this issue as deep down you know if you have an honest conversation it could result in you breaking up. But there are worse things that could happen than that.

She could fall pregnant soon and you could feel trapped

You could decide in 5 years that you don't want kids and possibly take that option away from her forever (by the time she found someone else and they were ready to have kids it could be too late for her)

You both needs to find some guts and have this conversation now and none of this messing because she cries or you feel bad. That's not going to solve anything

Its true isnt it? If he doesnt want kids he should break up with her

Tigger99 · 01-10-2013 1:11pm

Didn't phrase that well. I meant that kids should never be a price to pay, that you should only have them because you want them.

But yes if he doesn't want kids he should break up with her.

LegacyUser · 01-10-2013 6:41pm

I'm sorry to say, OP, but this issue isn't going to go away. No matter how great your relationship is otherwise, this is something that will erode it away.
Your gf is 29, you've been dating over 2 years, ye had "the baby talk" a year into your relationship, she would like to begin a family aged 30/31.....to be fair to the girl, she has laid her cards on the table,& been totally straight with you, practically from the get-go.
The tears are likely down to frustration- the two of you have an otherwise perfect relationship,& she is just on the cusp of making a huge sign of commitment to you by moving from the UK to Ireland. Meantime, nothing has been resolved re this massive issue. You've had over a year to think it all over!
Your timescale of starting a family in 5 years time is realistic for you; you will be 32 (ironically, the age she now wants to become pregnant!). Females don't have the luxury of limitless time.
It may have nothing to do with fertility per se- she may want you to be younger/more energetic parents, or for there to be a gap of a few years between children to give ye/her body a break.
Regardless, you really need to bite the bullet. She has made up her mind on what she wants.
Now you have to make up your mind on what you want. And tell her, no matter what the consequences. Do you want kids, ever? Or are you 99% sure you'll want them in 5 years? In which case, what's bring it forward 3 years between soulmates? Nothing stopping you condensing all your travel plans into the next 2 years.
No more ducking and diving and dodging- decide& divulge, soon.

dellas1979 · 01-10-2013 6:49pm

There is nothing wrong with you not wanting children, now, or never.

There is nothing wrong with her wanting children either.

You both are simply not on the same page of what you both want.
And you not being clear is like dangling a carrot infront of a donkey.

You are both being selfish, both for your own reasons. Which are very valid in your own lives.

She is about to give up a lot for you, under the pretence, in her mind, that in 2-5 years youll be having a baby. Is this what you want?

CaraMay · 01-10-2013 6:53pm

This is a dead duck. Call it a day before she moves over as it will only be harder after she does. You are not selfish wanting to travel etc but you are being very selfish by leading her on.

Caonima · 01-10-2013 9:24pm

3DataModem wrote: »

"Ready" for kids? What does that really even mean?

I love you. This comment means so little to so many. Ready for kids? It's like preparing for amputation; easy to imagine, but impossible to really conceptualise.

I hear so many of my GF's friends talk about getting ready to get pregnant, or planning a pregnancy....

If it's a financial thing, I understand. If not.... just deluded.

My GF got pregnant this year and is due in a few days now. The act of her getting pregnant in the first place was enough to help me get my shit in gear; I didn't need the whole premeditated nonsense.

LegacyUser · 01-10-2013 10:24pm

I'm a woman and for a long time I wrestled with the same questions as you. I used to think that "someday" I'd feel it was the right time to have children. "Someday" never happened because I realised why I was having all those doubts. I had never wanted them in the first place. I don't want to put words into your mouth but you're reminding me of myself in the times before I knew what I wanted.

ash23 · 03-10-2013 11:05am

unreg_2109 wrote: »

That was a clear as I could put it and I got a response back saying I was an asshole given she's leaving everything and coming over, etc. Late in the day to be saying it I know but I'd tried it 6 months earlier and same story. Ended up apologising and saying we'd work something out just like the last time too.

Well, I think I'd be pretty angry with a guy who kept telling me we'd work something out and then putting me off again and again.

Essentially it boils down to this. She is about to give up her current life to move over and be with you. She has made it clear about what she expects that to entail and the time frame she expects it to happen in.
You have told her what you want but when that upsets her, you retract it. She thinks you're on the same page as her until she broaches the topic again and you say you're not game and then she gets upset and you retract it again.

I did this song and dance with my ex for 5 loooong years. Later, in 6 months, when we buy a house, in another 6 months...on and on it went. As a result we just got in deeper and deeper. I moved away from family and friends because of his job. I bought a house with him. And all the while he was doing exactly what you are doing to your girlfriend, stringing her along. You need to be totally and absolutely clear about what you want before she moves over here because it certainly won't get any easier once she's here.

I was so angry with my ex about the years of my life he wasted, the negative equity we're in, the fact that even though we're broken up 6 years we're still tied by the house he insisted we needed to have before we had children. I'd rather he'd been honest. It'd have hurt like hell but at least we'd not have been so entangled.

I was recently in a relationship where the guy started getting wishy washy about marriage and kids. I gave him a few weeks to mull it over and when he still didn't know, I ended it. I wasn't going to start going down that same path again with another man. I'd rather be single than living a lie and being lead down the garden path.

seenitall · 03-10-2013 3:24pm

ash23 wrote: »

Essentially it boils down to this. She is about to give up her current life to move over and be with you. She has made it clear about what she expects that to entail and the time frame she expects it to happen in.
You have told her what you want but when that upsets her, you retract it. She thinks you're on the same page as her until she broaches the topic again and you say you're not game and then she gets upset and you retract it again.

This is grossly unfair to the OP, ash. There isn't even a comparison to be made between your former relationship and the OP's current one. Unlike your ex, the OP is deeply concerned about this issue and the future with this woman, so concerned in fact, that, if you read his posts carefully, you will see that he himself broached the kids subject twice recently, clearly framing the issue in the context of a DEALBREAKER on at least one occasion.

It is the gf who refuses to hear what he is saying and to act accordingly (i.e. break up as responsible adults who want different things out of life), but instead throws a massive guilt trip on the OP (an asshole, a dcikhead for daring to deviate from the plan in her head - honestly, have you read this?), thus manipulating him into submission while playing on his feelings for her, his unwillingness to lose her. A steam-roller doesn't even begin to cover it.

Also, what's all this about how the poor gf is about to leave her old life behind and move over for him? Well that suits her down to the ground! The sooner she is living with him, the sooner she can start to make babies, regardless of the OP's say on the matter.

The huge difference between your past situation and the OP's current one, ash, is that the OP will actually become a father soon enough unless he acts VERY decisevely and very swiftly in the near future. Does that really read like a mirror of your own past relationship? I doubt it. The power balance in the OP's relationship seems to me to be the complete opposite of your one, in fact. You acted as a decent and responsible person, you were soft with the person you loved and gave him lots of time and leeway. Whoever acts like that while in a relationship with a selfish and manipulative dcik or witch, will eventually come a cropper.

The OP should be urged to grow a huge amount of backbone very fast, not admonished for stringing anyone along. There is no stringing along being done here IMO. Unless you count a woman's willful self-delusion.

ash23 · 03-10-2013 6:25pm

seenitall wrote: »

This is grossly unfair to the OP, ash. There isn't even a comparison to be made between your former relationship and the OP's current one. Unlike your ex, the OP is deeply concerned about this issue and the future with this woman, so concerned in fact, that, if you read his posts carefully, you will see that he himself broached the kids subject twice recently, clearly framing the issue in the context of a DEALBREAKER on at least one occasion.

It is the gf who refuses to hear what he is saying and to act accordingly (i.e. break up as responsible adults who want different things out of life), but instead throws a massive guilt trip on the OP (an asshole, a dcikhead for daring to deviate from the plan in her head - honestly, have you read this?), thus manipulating him into submission while playing on his feelings for her, his unwillingness to lose her. A steam-roller doesn't even begin to cover it.

Also, what's all this about how the poor gf is about to leave her old life behind and move over for him? Well that suits her down to the ground! The sooner she is living with him, the sooner she can start to make babies, regardless of the OP's say on the matter.

The huge difference between your past situation and the OP's current one, ash, is that the OP will actually become a father soon enough unless he acts VERY decisevely and very swiftly in the near future. Does that really read like a mirror of your own past relationship? I doubt it. The power balance in the OP's relationship seems to me to be the complete opposite of your one, in fact. You acted as a decent and responsible person, you were soft with the person you loved and gave him lots of time and leeway. Whoever acts like that while in a relationship with a selfish and manipulative dcik or witch, will eventually come a cropper.

The OP should be urged to grow a huge amount of backbone very fast, not admonished for stringing anyone along. There is no stringing along being done here IMO. Unless you count a woman's willful self-delusion.

The op told her and when she got upset, he bailed on telling her the truth. So it's pretty much exactly what my first ex did. Just because she's been clear about wanting children, doesnt mean she's going to get pregnant without his consent or agreement. But ahe deserves to be told it is definitely not going to happen so she can make some choices about her own life with all the facts in place. Telling someone "we'll work something out" implies there is wiggle room and room for negotiating so the op is misleading her as he's adamant he doesn't want kids anytime within the timeframe she wants.

ash23 · 03-10-2013 6:30pm

Just to add, I had two ex's. Same problem with each. One.dragged it out for years and I let him because I thought what he was saying was true. The second one, I ended it sharpish having learned from the first time. My comparison between op and my ex was in relation to the first relationship I was in, not the second.

seenitall · 03-10-2013 7:26pm

ash23 wrote: »

The op told her and when she got upset, he bailed on telling her the truth. So it's pretty much exactly what my first ex did. Just because she's been clear about wanting children, doesnt mean she's going to get pregnant without his consent or agreement. But ahe deserves to be told it is definitely not going to happen so she can make some choices about her own life with all the facts in place. Telling someone "we'll work something out" implies there is wiggle room and room for negotiating so the op is misleading her as he's adamant he doesn't want kids anytime within the timeframe she wants.

Yes, just as he has told her and as she has not accepted, but emotionally blackmails him into feeling like a dcik for having different aspirations to her. That surely wasn't the same dynamic that you and your first ex-boyfriend had.

I imagine he told her he wants to work something out, because he actually does. Because he loves her. First he agreed that he may want kids at some point, then he agreed that they will start trying after 5 years, then she pushed the goal-posts yet again, to 2 years. With the cheek of her lecturing him on compromising!

So I'm sorry but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the woman started trying to conceive the second she steps off the plane - after all, she has the form for moving the goalposts on the OP and getting exactly what she wants, so far. I really don't get all the concern for her in this thread. As far as I can make out, she's doing just grand!

We agree that these two people shouldn't be with each other, ash. It's only that we are coming at it from different angles. Most people think he's stringing her along, I think he is the kind of guy who will most likely end up as a hungry-for-sperm woman's supper. (Sorry, OP, I hope I'm wrong, but you really have to harden up and break up with your gf. Before it's too late. Good luck.)

ash23 · 03-10-2013 9:47pm

seenitall wrote: »

Yes, just as he has told her and as she has not accepted, but emotionally blackmails him into feeling like a dcik for having different aspirations to her. That surely wasn't the same dynamic that you and your first ex-boyfriend had.

I don't see where she blackmailed him? She said he was being a d*ck for bringing it up right before she was due to move over. I'd agree to an extent. if you've ever been in a relationship where as soon as it's time to move on to the next step, the other person starts humming and hawwing over it, it's really frustrating. Has any person who has ever been issued a deal breaker always taken it with a smile and good grace? The girlfriend might get angry and might start mouthing off at him but it's not blackmail. It's human nature! I recall having a similar episode with my ex where I told him he could do whatever the f*ck he wanted because I was sick to the back teeth of him flaking on me every single time......did he? No, he grovelled and apologised and promised me "in 6 months". 6 months later he pulled the same crap.
Op has broached it with his girlfriend but has backed down as soon as she gets hurt or angry with him. that's not her blackmailing him, that's her responding to something he is telling her that is hurtful and difficult and frustrating for her to hear. If he never stands by what he says, how is she meant to know he means it and he's serious? He should have the courage of his convictions.

I imagine he told her he wants to work something out, because he actually does. Because he loves her. First he agreed that he may want kids at some point, then he agreed that they will start trying after 5 years, then she pushed the goal-posts yet again, to 2 years. With the cheek of her lecturing him on compromising!

ummm, that's not what the OP said. They spoke about kids, he said he wasn't sure, she said all she needed to know at that stage was that he wanted them and he said he did. They then talked about it, she said 2 years, he said 5. She got upset and he said they'd work something out. He brought it up again and again he backed down. He has been vague and non-committal in what he has "agreed" with her.

So I'm sorry but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the woman started trying to conceive the second she steps off the plane - after all, she has the form for moving the goalposts on the OP and getting exactly what she wants, so far. I really don't get all the concern for her in this thread. As far as I can make out, she's doing just grand!

Just because a woman wants children and is upfront about it and has a timeline in her mind, doesn't mean she will deceive someone into having one. That's really not giving much credit to women. I was in the same place as the OPs girlfriend 5 years ago and I still have no more children.
How is she doing grand? She's about to move from her family and friends to build a future with a man who is flaky about what he wants and isn't being man enough to say how he feels for fear of losing her - but that's the risk he is taking because the alternative is to have kids he doesn't want or to make her miserable for the next couple of years by essentially depriving her of what she has been crystal clear about in terms of the expectations of their relationship.

We agree that these two people shouldn't be with each other, ash. It's only that we are coming at it from different angles. Most people think he's stringing her along, I think he is the kind of guy who will most likely end up as a hungry-for-sperm woman's supper. (Sorry, OP, I hope I'm wrong, but you really have to harden up and break up with your gf. Before it's too late. Good luck.)

I just think it's a shame that you consider a woman who wants kids and expresses it and a healthy time frame to a long term partner as a "hungry-for-sperm" woman who is out to trap a man into having a baby.
It's a sad state of affairs when a woman can't say what she wants from a relationship.

I think OP you just need to be crystal clear with it before she moves over. You owe her that much rather than having her move over here and then issue her with what you know is a dealbreaker.

seenitall · 03-10-2013 10:13pm

ash23 wrote: »

I just think it's a shame that you consider a woman who wants kids and expresses it and a healthy time frame to a long term partner as a "hungry-for-sperm" woman who is out to trap a man into having a baby.
It's a sad state of affairs when a woman can't say what she wants from a relationship.

And I think it's a shame that the OP has brought himself into a situation where he has let himself be rail-roaded and pressurised into agreeing with everything that his girlfriend wants, so far. That much is his own fault, yes.

It's a sad state of affairs when a person can't agree to a condition or a certain time-frame without having yet another, and yet another thrust upon him in a supposedly happy and trusting relationship, until he ends up on the completely opposite side of the spectrum to where he began to, ahem, compromise.

This woman knows exactly what she is doing. Even a most deluded person in the world knows the difference between someone doing something because they are happy to make a compromise, and someone doing something out of fear of losing love, or conforming to the pressure a loved one is exerting.

If she didn't know exactly what she was doing, red flags would be going for her around the both times the OP brought up the subject of kids framed as a dealbreaker, and a normal person certainly wouldn't be moving her life for a man in such conflicting and trying circumstances. But no. She will have it all her way, that's why she is making the move so confidently, she knows she broke his resistance before, and she seems confident enough that she can do it again. And again.

Excuse me for not having an ounce of understanding or compassion for such a person. She is certainly proving with her actions that sperm matters to her more than the man.

LegacyUser · 03-10-2013 11:11pm

It doesn't really matter who's doing what, or why, or their motives.
What matters is OP doesn't want what his gf wants, not now, and probably not ever, or at least- not with her.
People do strange things when they're in love, just because this woman wants to have his children doesn't mean she loves their potential children more than she loves him; it's a massive honour to ask someone to be the father of your children. And it's a rare woman who would opt to be a single mother (there are easier and quicker ways than a longterm, longdistance, relationship if that were the case! And there wouldn't even be these endless discussions and arguments either; if she were that conniving, it would just happen, no forewarning)
He needs to man up, decide his plan of action, tell her, and stick to it.

fear of settling down and having kids

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