Group Cycling Woes

Amz

I've been going on group spins with a local club since July, really enjoying it until I met one particular member who just makes me feel nervous and unsafe.

She's quite erratic, sudden stops, pulling in and out without warning, changes in speed etc. Completely stresses me out! Then I leave big gaps when behind her in order to avoid the madness, thus irritating my fellow riders.

I know others in the group are aware of her behaviour, and I've heard one or two speak to her about group etiquette, but it's at the point where I'm not going on the group spins, in order to avoid her.

I'm new enough to cycling, so not sure how best to deal with it, or if I'm over reacting.

Any advice?

Cookie_Monster

Any advice?

go out by yourself, watch the scenery instead of someones wheel
Can't stand cycling in groups myself.

Dcully

Amz wrote: »

I've been going on group spins with a local club since July, really enjoying it until I met one particular member who just makes me feel nervous and unsafe.

She's quite erratic, sudden stops, pulling in and out without warning, changes in speed etc. Completely stresses me out! Then I leave big gaps when behind her in order to avoid the madness, thus irritating my fellow riders.

I know others in the group are aware of her behaviour, and I've heard one or two speak to her about group etiquette, but it's at the point where I'm not going on the group spins, in order to avoid her.

I'm new enough to cycling, so not sure how best to deal with it, or if I'm over reacting.

Any advice?

Strange one to be fair, not unusual but difficult to work out how to tackle it.
Personally im only back cycling a short while but i used to do it semi serious over 10 years ago often in groups.
Thankfully i didnt have your problem.

Its hard to know what to do,if it was me id just try to continue on and hope others members of your club preferably longterm members address the issue.
Id be inclined to be careful not to say too much if i was new into a club.
But thats just me, i tend to try avoid any form of confrontation.
Mr earlier years were the opposite and ive learned lol.
These days my spins are pretty much 100% solo but i am considering he club scene again.

Hope it works out for you.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I agree with the above too. I used to go out on my own but then joined a club and went out with them but didn't like it. I hated having speed etc dictated to me, sometimes I wanted to go faster and sometimes not as fast so I stopped going and started going out on my own again. I actually push myself harder when I'm on my own and prefer it. I never had any bother with group behaviour or erratic cyclists so can't really comment on how you would specifically deal with it but perhaps you and a few others should approach her and tell her of your concerns and ask her to cycle at the rear of the pack so that she's not interfering with other riders.

Qualitymark

Have you talked to her about it? If you have, and you've talked to the others, maybe the next thing is to get a helmet cam, and ask permission to film the ride as you go along. Then, if she's still doing this, either ask the other people in the group to take her aside and show her the film and explain how what she's doing is dangerous, or, if various different people including this cyclist are behaving in ways that are a) excellent cycling and b) dangerous, hold a showing for everyone, and have everyone including yourself pointing out what's really good cycling and what's not.
Or of course you could leave the group, either telling her (for her own safety and that of others) that her cycling is the reason you're leaving, or not saying anything but just leaving it.
I have friends who cycle like this, the red setters of the cycling world - "Oooh, there's a butterfly!" - screech to a halt to take a photo of it - "Oooh, think I'll turn right!" - wobble suddenly to the centre of the road and then, just before turning, stick out a right hand in a signal and wobble across as cars and trucks screech to a crashing, swearing halt. I honestly don't think they can help it. They drive the same way. One day the State will impose a €20 on-the-spot fine on people who don't signal until they're actually turning, and with a giant groan of gears the country will wheel slowly around and move out of recession on the profits.

nak

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

go out by yourself, watch the scenery instead of someones wheel
Can't stand cycling in groups myself.

Same here, depends on the group, but prefer to do most of my training on my own.

C3PO

I ride a lot on my own but really enjoy the enforced discipline of riding in a group too! We do a fast training spin once a week and there are certain guys that I hate following (usually because they're much younger and stronger than me and I struggle to hold their wheel!!) so I use my head and try to ensure that I'm not directly behind them in the rotation! Can you not make sure that you're not following the girl that's upsetting you? If you're enjoying the dynamics of a group spin it would be a shame to give it up because of the behavior of one other rider!
Also I would be surprised if sooner or later one of the senior riders doesn't "have a quiet word" with her!

MB Lacey

I can't understand how she's not been pulled up seriously about this yet.
The groups I've cycled with have been pretty strict (which I like) on the rules of group cycling.

You have to ask your cycling group leader to cycle behind/ alongside this girl because you think she's unsafe and going to cause an accident.

Maybe even suggest one of the more experiencend cyclists take her out for a few one on one sessions.

Good luck

godtabh

i do a bit of both. Had similar problems. Changed groups (beginners say to improvers). Is that possible?

shaka

She should be pulled n it , one guy cycles with us can be like that. If he brakes in front of me I call him on it and he usually cops on.. She may not be aware she is causing problems behind her

seamus

Interaction in group riding is a bit daunting initially, especially if you're not generally a very outspoken person. Making hand signals, calling out changes in speed, position, etc doesn't come naturally to most people. I know for the first 10 or so rides I did, I just about managed to make the correct hand signals. Shouting out directions and signals with confidence took more time again.

Correcting the behaviour of others and explaining to them what they're doing wrong is another step up altogether, and in reality there should be at least two group leaders in any beginner/improver groups who are confident enough to pull alongside a rider and explain to them the importance of being predictable but also calling out hazards and changes. If your group doesn't specifically have any guides/leaders, then you should try identify the most confident riders in the group. Either way ask one of them if they'll ride beside this girl for 20km and try to give her some extra attention. If she's a nervous rider, then shouting at her when she screws up is likely to just make her worse, so having someone instruct her continually for a good distance should help with her confidence.

In club spins I think in most cases the clubs tell people to just tag on and they'll figure it out (certainly that's how I learned), but inevitably some people won't figure it out and will need a bit of guidance.

You're not overreacting. It's one thing crashing in a race, you accept that as a potential risk of pushing the boundaries. But crashes on club spins are totally avoidable & unnecessary and will ruin your weekend.

Also, as godtabh mentions, beginners groups tend to be a little erratic, especially since there's more churn in the riders. Sometimes improvers groups also have slightly inexperienced leaders who don't know correct etiquette. When I first started in the club I remember bitching about a guy all day who continually half-wheeled in the middle of the group, which forces you to ride outside of the pace line because rather than riding beside you, he's sitting in between the two riders in front of you. About 20km from home I discovered he was supposed to be one of the group leaders, hence why nobody had pulled him up on it.

ericzeking

Something needs to be said if peoples safety is at risk, this is a serious matter.

Lots of people avoid clubs/groups because they don't like being told what to do but the fact of the matter is, the most important thing is that everyone gets home safely and there are rules and etiquette that ensure this.
It's all well and good being nice but that won't be much good to you if end up on your ar$e or worse.

You are allowed to give advice, it's commonplace in cycling at all levels.

T-Maxx

Get ahead, stay ahead?

Quigs Snr

In my club, such a rider could expect a firm clatter across the back of the helmet from one of the more experienced riders following any incidents, followed by a severe bollocking. A bit of instantaneous real time feedback seems to work out better in the long run.

wirelessdude01

Quigs Snr wrote: »

In my club, such a rider could expect a firm clatter across the back of the helmet from one of the more experienced riders following any incidents, followed by a severe bollocking. A bit of instantaneous real time feedback seems to work out better in the long run.

Bit over the top really. A quiet word and/or a more experienced rider riding alongside or a few ks explaining the dynamics of group cycling and the do's and don'ts should help wipe out most if not all the issues mentioned. A group can be a daunting place for a newbie in any sport let alone cycling where a lot of people think they are experts and also tend to forget that they were once the newbie in a group.

Quigs Snr

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Bit over the top really. A quiet word and/or a more experienced rider riding alongside or a few ks explaining the dynamics of group cycling and the do's and don'ts should help wipe out most if not all the issues mentioned. A group can be a daunting place for a newbie in any sport let alone cycling where a lot of people think they are experts and also tend to forget that they were once the newbie in a group.

True beginners are given plenty of latitude. For those who have been spoken to more than once or who should know better... well tough love is sometimes the best kind.

Amz

Hi folks, thanks for the replies.

She was spoken to and advised on the last spin I went on, but she didn't seem to take it on board, as by the time we hit the road after a coffee stop she was at it again. I genuinely think she doesn't know she's doing it. I haven't gone out with the group for a month now and I do miss it, but I don't like the stress she caused me.

I had hoped to move to the improves group, but alas she was moving up at the same time, so on top of the worries about keeping up and not annoying the rest of the group, I had her to contend with. She has been cycling a few years and does a lot of sportive like the An Post series, so she's not lacking time in the saddle.

I did try to stay ahead of her as much as possible last time out, but sometimes she just got in front, or beside me as the people rotated to take their time in the wind etc.

As I say, I am not a terribly experienced cyclist, I do have a lot of interest though and I'm trying to learn from the experience/advice of others, I'm sure I do things that are irritating to others, but I do try and learn from mistakes and take constructive advice on board.

I'm tempted to just stay with the beginners if it means I'm not cycling with her, but then I'm not challenging myself fully. Then maybe when I'm more experienced she won't bother me as much.

feck sake lads

why dont you make a quick 10 minute video of the group putting her in the staring role be sure to tell her shes on utube.
btw who the hell is this woman and what group does she ride with.

petethedrummer

Some people simply cannot be taught spatial awareness. Or they come from such a low base that even with some improvement they are still inept. It happens in all sports at recreational level; swimmers who can't swim in a straight line, bumbling footballers who clatter in to everyone else, wobbly cyclists etc... So stay as far away from her as possible, if it means missing a rotation then miss a rotation.

Most people make the odd mistake now and again but some people are just a total liability.

Captain Havoc

petethedrummer wrote: »

Some people simply cannot be taught spatial awareness. Or they come from such a low base that even with some improvement they are still inept. It happens in all sports at recreational level; swimmers who can't swim in a straight line, bumbling footballers who clatter in to everyone else, wobbly cyclists etc... So stay as far away from her as possible, if it means missing a rotation then miss a rotation.

Most people make the odd mistake now and again but some people are just a total liability.

Totally agree with this, I train the beginners in our club and people do come along that will never get it and they generally leave as I keep instructing them to do what they mentally can't, some people can't ride within two meters of the rider in front, some hit the brakes as soon as they reach 25kph, etc...... People have other issues and generally they can be resolved by adapting the group to suit their needs. I try my best to be encouraging as I want them to come back next week and I think if you asked any of the beginners they'd say that I am but sometimes the odd person and they are in a very small minority are possibly unable to be helped because of their perceptions.

feck sake lads

dont do the group thing any more so far i suffered
3 cracked ribs:eek: Gob****e in front slapped on brakes why i'll never know.
i cracked head,:eek: idiot looking around him hit my bars I ended up in hospital.
another total fred took a nice chip out of my lovely carbon new frame,:mad: jesus i could have kiled him there and then.

a group of 4 is nice anything more than that stay well away unless there lads that race and i not talking the dreaded sportive rider actual racers that know how to handle a bike.

Captain Havoc

I should add, most riders at sportives don't know what they're doing and are a danger to themselves and those around them. I think joining a club would do them the world of good.

Chips Lovell

Amz wrote: »

She was spoken to and advised on the last spin I went on, but she didn't seem to take it on board, as by the time we hit the road after a coffee stop she was at it again. I genuinely think she doesn't know she's doing it. I haven't gone out with the group for a month now and I do miss it, but I don't like the stress she caused me.

I had hoped to move to the improves group, but alas she was moving up at the same time, so on top of the worries about keeping up and not annoying the rest of the group, I had her to contend with. She has been cycling a few years and does a lot of sportive like the An Post series, so she's not lacking time in the saddle.

This is where you move into a tricky situation. If she's a longstanding member and been told time and again and either doesn't listen or is incapable of riding safely, the options become limited. It's actually quite problematic to make someone stop coming to spins or to get them to leave a club.

All you can do is tell club officials of your concerns and try and avoid her as much as possible

morana

its just an education thing. I did it when I was starting off. People do it when I go out on spins.

Its not a hanging offence. the more experienced riders should tell whoever in the nicest possible way. But hey what about a bit of good ole fashion coaching..now theres a thought. setup a line in the car park for newbies, walk them thru the motions and emphasize the safety aspects.

Coaching is good!

petethedrummer

morana wrote: »

its just an education thing. I did it when I was starting off. People do it when I go out on spins.

Everyone does it a bit. Some just do it all the time, even 'experienced' riders.

I bet this person is also a poor driver and the kind of person that would manage to accidentally break your arm playing lawn bowls.

Charlie69

feck sake lads wrote: »

dont do the group thing any more so far i suffered
3 cracked ribs:eek: Gob****e in front slapped on brakes why i'll never know.
i cracked head,:eek: idiot looking around him hit my bars I ended up in hospital.
another total fred took a nice chip out of my lovely carbon new frame,:mad: jesus i could have kiled him there and then.

a group of 4 is nice anything more than that stay well away unless there lads that race and i not talking the dreaded sportive rider actual racers that know how to handle a bike.

I'll prob give the sportives a miss from now on myself as I'm recovering from a broken wrist at the moment because some guy jumped on his brakes when his chain came off in the SK tour of Waterford.Did a few of the an post series this year and saw a lot of crazy manoeuvers.
Very frustrating when you end up injured and out of work because of someone else's stupid mistake

LeoD

Amz wrote: »

As I say, I am not a terribly experienced cyclist

As you're not very experienced, maybe this other person's riding is not as bad as you make out? From your posts you seem quite nervous on the bike while riding in a group so any 'odd' behavior by another cyclist will further increase your anxieties and fear. Unfortunately, there will always be the dodgy cyclist in a group who tends to drift, half-wheel, brake suddenly, etc, but as you get more experience, your anticipation of what others will do as well as your bike handling skills will improve so riding close to such cyclists becomes less fraught.

billyhead

I personally prefer to train by myself not just because of the greater risk of crashing in a group but also because I feel I work harder on my own as I cannot draft someone else

wirelessdude01

billyhead wrote: »

I personally prefer to train by myself not just because of the greater risk of crashing in a group but also because I feel I work harder on my own as I cannot draft someone else

I would kinda be of the same mindset as yourself but will be joining a club to get used to group riding as I want to do some racing next year.

Craig06

What I would say is don't write off cycling in groups completely. We have a great group of cyclists in our club and have only been at it a year myself. Not everywhere is the same mind.

Lawr

Change spin times or starting location and don't tell her.

Captain Havoc

morana wrote: »

its just an education thing. I did it when I was starting off. People do it when I go out on spins.

Its not a hanging offence. the more experienced riders should tell whoever in the nicest possible way. But hey what about a bit of good ole fashion coaching..now theres a thought. setup a line in the car park for newbies, walk them thru the motions and emphasize the safety aspects.

Coaching is good!

That's another good point, I am a level 1 cycling coach and it definitely helps.

NeedMoreGears

There's been a few disparaging remarks about how the "dreaded sportif rider" (the implication being all sportif riders) is a hazard to all and sundry - Sportifs are not group training rides nor are they races. Other riders are traffic not part of a team - keep your distance if you don't know or trust them. Otherwise pass them carefully.

I've seen all sorts of sketchy riding on sportifs, a reasonable amount of it from what appear to be experienced club riders (no idea if they race or not) so I wouldn't be rushing to tar all with the same brush.

As regards the OPs original issue, perhaps a word from a more experienced rider might help and/or a formal session on how to safely ride in a group?