Liffey Descent 2013 - After action report

xt40

Heres a rundown of my experience at the LD yesterday. Feel free to add your own experiences to this thread.

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Yesterday was a great day on the liffey. Water was a little low but The weather held up and those organising the event did a wonderful job.
For me it was my first time competing in the full liffey descent and first time down the liffey since the (then) schools LD in 1987
Personally I had an (almost) great race in the masters gp class (wavehopper).
I got away just behind the leaders and was about tenth boat over straffan. I went straight down the vee without any problems.
I managed to maintain a nice pace on the upper section and had no probs on any of the weirs and rapids. I'd never ran that section of the liffey before and was surprised how interesting it was, twisty,lots of rapids, never a dull moment.
Eventually reached the lake which was literally empty. with a big island of mud in the middle.
At this stage i was behind the GP leaders but well ahead of the pack so at the portage i had an easy time. It was empty so no queues getting out or back in. Apart from the fact that wavehoppers weigh a ton, I cant run full stop so had to walk it. I lost loads of time here and by the time i got back on, i'd completely lost sight of the front runners.
At sluice there was insufficient water for the right side chicken shoot so everyone was being directed down the actual sluice on the left. I wasnt bothered as going left was the original plan anyway.
Aware of the tendency to push you to the left wall, i kept well right. First "oh ****" moment as my nose caught onto the front corner of the right wall and i found myself almost sideways midway down the chute. A big reverse sweep and the stern hitting the left wall got me back to about 45 degrees hitting the wave and amazingly i was through and upright.
No problems over lucan, ana liffey and straight down the vee at wrens.
Coming up to palmerstown I was feeling good and on the home straight. Got a perfect line straight down the middle.
"oh ****" again, as the line was blocked by a bunch of "rescue boats/spectators". I tried to pull left to avoid them, hit the massive wave wrong and was over. I tried to roll but was coming up on the upstream side and hadnt a hope.
I lost what seemed like loads of time lost getting back in. At least the final weir in chapelizod is supposed to be easy (i'd never done it before).
So i completely took the wrong line and once again ended up on my ear. Tried rolling (upstream) twice and swam again. Loads more time lost and back in and sprinted to finish in 3h02m (13th place) edit - (Just noticed i misread the results. 02h54m -sixth place pretty happy with that considering the 2 swims)
I trained hard for it which definitely paid off but hadnt been able practice the weirs. I also made the error of not practicing rolling with my wavehopper and or wing paddle.
The issue with wings is that you cant scull or brace normally so need to get up in one go.
I absolutely loved every minute of the experience and cant wait for next years.

elrond

Ah yes, another grateful Liffey Descent paddler.

Please allow meet me to clarify matters for you - the spectators are the people on the bank, who have a nice overall view of the action, a comfortable seat (if they chose to bring one), and refreshments to hand. They arrive when they want to, and leave when they want to.

The rescuers are the people on the bank, in the water, in and out of boats, guiding people down the weirs and helping those people who don't manage to survive their descent of the weirs. They arrive at their rescue positions long before the first paddlers come through, and they leave after the last paddlers come through. They do not receive a red cent for their efforts (lest I be called a liar, they do get a Liffey Descent T shirt and a meal at the end, the value of which would hardly cover their cars' running costs getting to and from the event). They do it to help their fellow paddlers, because they love paddling.

Without them, there could be no Liffey Descent, and the vast majority of the competitors are very grateful to them and effusive in their thanks if they unfortunately need to be rescued.

In order to help those people, the boat rescuers necessarily must go to where people need rescue, and it's an unfortunate fact that in a race with as many boats as the Liffey Descent, this may sometimes result in their ending up in the way of other competitors.

The rescuers are very aware of this, and will do their very best to get out of the way. As a competitor, your job is to keep to your line, and trust the rescuers to avoid you - they're in GP boats, and are able to change direction much quicker than most racers.

You saw rescuers down stream of you and due to your own inexperience, your response was to change your line on the weir and so the wave (which was NOT massive - it normally is quite big at Palmerstown for the Liffey Descent, but this year's only had half the water of a normal year) had its evil way with you.

If you had stuck to your line, you might have made it down the weir (if your line was as good as you say) and by the time you reached the rescuers, they'd have moved out of your way. If in the worst case you did collide with the rescuers, they'd have helped stabilise you and get you on your way.

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed your Liffey Descent experience - I've really enjoyed every one I've done - and I'm sorry to hear about your swims but they're part and parcel of the Liffey Descent for most people and I'm sure the spectators were a great help to you getting back into your boat - or perhaps the rescuers were better for that?

I hope circumstances allow you to compete again next year, and that there's enough water available that the E.S.B. can provide a full flood so that you can enjoy the experience at its best - and see what a massive wave at Palmerstown Weir really is ;-)


Niall O Broin
Secretary
Wild Water Kayak Club - who are proud providers of Liffey Descent rescue at Palmerstown Weir

xt40

Hi Niall,
you seem to have perceived some unintended insult in my initial post which was an honest description of my experience on the day which drove you to attack me as being both ungrateful and inexperienced.
Firstly, if you read the post again you will see on the first line i mentioned the wonderful job that the organisers did on the day. I didnt qualify that statement with the prefix "some" so you can assume i also meant you, your club and indeed all the other clubs that provided rescue services on the day.
I am experienced enough to know that Liffey descent day is the one day of the year where biggish water is guaranteed and that in itself draws non participating paddlers who congregate at the bottom of weirs to spectate, play and yes also give rescue.
As the officially organised rescue paddlers do not wear any distinguishing bibs etc you cant really tell the difference in the heat of the moment.
I told it as i saw it. I came down the vee and my way was blocked by a number of boats. I tried to avoid them as there was no guarantee or in my split-second opinion, chance that they would be able to get out of the way in time and i would prefer not to skewer someone. I think i made the right call to try and divert even if it meant screwing up my line.

Ive no idea where you were yourself on the day and maybe you didnt see it but ther actually was an unusually massive( for palmerstown and in my opinion) wave-hole at the bottom of the weir at the end of the concrete ledge. Had the water been bigger, this would have been washed out making for a simpler shoot. here is a pic of another paddler (youtube still) getting eaten by it for illustration.



To finish, thanks again for your and your clubs efforts on the day.

elrond

I don't really think I was attacking you per se, but you did (to me and to others of the WWKC rescue crew, who first drew my attention to your post) come across as somewhat ungrateful and you are by your own description inexperienced in the Descent, having last paddled in a junior event more than a quarter of a century ago (yes, I put it that way to make it sound even longer :-) ).

As you say, you told it as you saw it, but your interpretation was IMO mistaken. The rescue boats were not that near you - they simply couldn't be because we didn't try to rescue right in the line just below the wave, as the water's too fast. It was nice of you to think of avoiding skewering somebody - not many people do and to be honest, the rescuers don't want you to - they WILL get out of your way but if a collision happens, and they do, they'll do their best to make sure you don't come off worse, if for no other reason than that it's less effort to do that than to get you back in your boat. However, as you said, you had to make your decision quickly.

Every boat which was below the weir during the race (and not participating) was part of the official rescue crew. I'm sure some of them played on the wave during the idle moments between waves (of racers), but they didn't do much spectating - it's a poor spectating position. If when you came down the weir they seemed to be in your way, that's just because that's where they happened to find themselves after the last rescue, or perhaps on their way to the next.

And finally, let me assure you that the wave was not at all unusually massive - I was right there beside it for most of the day. It possibly looks more massive if you're in a Wavehopper, but as I said, that release was 50% of the volume of a good Liffey Descent - then the wave does get fairly massive. Maybe next year . . .

Thanks for your kind words about our club and all the others involved - the Liffey Descent really is a big undertaking which couldn't happen without all those who freely give of their time.

OldmanMondeo

On the rescue thing, I used to help with rescue at WWKC in the 90's and TBH after abuse you get from paddlers, getting rammed while trying to help swimmers out, I will never do rescue at any race again. There is no thanks at all. I know Niall says rescuers get a tee shirt and a medal, I think I would be owed quite a few. Fair play to rescuers for getting out and helping out.

Op good to hear you had a good decent, Think you need some rolling practice before next year...

elrond

To be fair OldmanMondeo, you do get a lot of thanks from people being rescued, really, though it astonishes me the abuse some of them give. One racer (whose name would be quite well known in the racing community, and hwo is a leading light in a large club) was quite abusive to his rescuers and said to the guy who was towing his boat back to him "Would you hurry up. I'm trying to win a race here." which provoked the excellent response from another of his rescuers that "If you want to win the race, you should stay in your boat."

This whole exchange was captured on GoPro by one of the rescuers and I'm trying to persuade him to release it - there was however apparently some choice language on both sides ;-)

omicron

elrond wrote: »

To be fair OldmanMondeo, you do get a lot of thanks from people being rescued, really, though it astonishes me the abuse some of them give. One racer (whose name would be quite well known in the racing community, and hwo is a leading light in a large club) was quite abusive to his rescuers and said to the guy who was towing his boat back to him "Would you hurry up. I'm trying to win a race here." which provoked the excellent response from another of his rescuers that "If you want to win the race, you should stay in your boat."

This whole exchange was captured on GoPro by one of the rescuers and I'm trying to persuade him to release it - there was however apparently some choice language on both sides ;-)

You can't say that and not say who it is!!!
At least say which club and class!!! (And which weir!!!)

Eugene Yes

Got caught at Palmerstown myself in a K2. Reckoned wave would be small due to lowish water and relaxed once I got good line but I learned a costly lesson. You have 2 choices on Palmerstown when you get the 'v' right. Punch through the wave at the bottom or go right of the wave and risk getting spun in the eddy. Both options require paddling like a mother funster to achieve. Any hesitation results in going in the drink, which I did. Rescue paddlers were superb. Great bunch of highly skilled lads.

paddle mad

I decided to do it in a play boat for the Sh@@ts and giggles which at the time "seemed" like a good idea at the time, wont be doing that again lol. I only swam twice which wasn't that bad as i was expecting to swim at every weir. Staffan got me good, took the line beside the fish tanks and as soon as the noise hit the water over i went. The rescue team saved my paddles from going for a swim which I was more than grateful for. Loved the slip and weir in lucan found that fair good fun.

My next swim was at the weir beside the wkcc ( don't know what its called sorry), the boat got caught in the stopper and ill have to take my hat of on the rescue.They got the boat empty'ed and had a laugh whit them while they got us back on my way.

Over all loved the race and im planing on what boat ill do it in next year. ( wont be a play boat anyway )

MugMugs

elrond wrote: »

To be fair OldmanMondeo, you do get a lot of thanks from people being rescued, really, though it astonishes me the abuse some of them give. One racer (whose name would be quite well known in the racing community, and hwo is a leading light in a large club) was quite abusive to his rescuers and said to the guy who was towing his boat back to him "Would you hurry up. I'm trying to win a race here." which provoked the excellent response from another of his rescuers that "If you want to win the race, you should stay in your boat."

This whole exchange was captured on GoPro by one of the rescuers and I'm trying to persuade him to release it - there was however apparently some choice language on both sides ;-)

I started off with WWKC and always wondered why I left after my five year tenure with them....... Your posts and the attitude displayed within them has done nothing but to remind me why.

Nice to see some things haven't changed.

gaius c

MugMugs wrote: »

I started off with WWKC and always wondered why I left after my five year tenure with them....... Your posts and the attitude displayed within them has done nothing but to remind me why.

Nice to see some things haven't changed.

You okay with rescuers being abused then?

xt40

gaius c wrote: »

You okay with rescuers being abused then?

Thats not what he said and its unfair to twist his words. (i should know)

MugMugs

gaius c wrote: »

You okay with rescuers being abused then?

Most certainly not.

I never said that it was however. I merely commented on the manner in which the Secretary of one of the most established and influential clubs in our fair community has conducted himself within this thread.

josealdo

first liffey descent here , great day out . really enjoyed everything about it . big thanks to the rescuer who plucked out from under wrens nest weir . I wasn't coming up without him . thanks again .