Easier to get a job as a male Primary school teacher..?

daviecronin

Hello People! Its me again I already started a thread a while ago about Primary school teaching. I was at careers day the other day. I was taking to a Primary school teacher who was a secondary school teacher as well. I asked him a lot of questions and one question I asked him would it be easier to get a job as a man? I also told him about my interest in drama and music. He said it would be so much easier to get a job as a man. He said because they are trying to balance the ratio? Is this true? Some people might agree or may not agree? But maybe if any current primary school teacher could answer me? Thanks you so much in advance!

spurious

No it's not.
It would be illegal to favour a male candidate over a female.
It's hard/almost impossible for anyone to find proper jobs in teaching in Ireland nowadays, even with years of experience. The best many primary NQTs can hope for, male or female, is a few days' subbing.

byhookorbycrook

Nope, no longer true, unless you are a GAA all Ireland winner and you are going for a GAA mad school. At present, there are NO jobs for anyone of any gender. The PTR is expected to go up again so even less jobs for anyone.

daviecronin

Are any of ye teachers? Thanks for your opinion. I might disagree though.

seavill

They are both teachers as far as I know as are most people posting on this forum.

You may disagree but you asked people for their opinion and you got it whether you like it or not

The thing to consider is the fact that there are over 600 people graduating each year to become primary teachers. even if only 1/10 of those were male that would be 60 people every year for last 10 years and next 10 years qualified that are men. There would not be enough jobs in the country to keep all of those in employment. Although I think the number is higher I have no link to exact figures.

Nowadays principals want the best person for the job whether male or female. And as someone said above it is illegal to pick someone based on their gender so if it was proven the principal could find themselves in a whole lot of trouble. Not worth the hassle if I were them.

There are 200-300 people applying for a single job in some places, if the person picked happens to be male I would suspect that is more of a coincidence more than anything else

Enright

Why come here for advice when you already have your mind made up?

daviecronin

Calm down I just wanted peoples opinions?

byhookorbycrook

Yes, I am a primary teacher and can tell you that gender doesn't come into it in most schools I know. The most important thing is a good teacher.

newbee22

Agree with the others- getting a job has nothing to do with your gender

teach88

You hear these kind of things every now and then. Apparently it's easier for males to get, say, a job as a French teacher as most applicants are female. To be honest, I havn't found it to be the case... and rightly so.

Carlowgirl

I did hear from a teacher that due to the number of single parent families and female primary school teachers that more male primary school teachers are needed to provide a male role model for young kids. This theory is based on the fact that most or a lot of kids are coming from one parent families. Don't quote me on this but it is something that has come in conversation and may be just a general idea for the future!

robp

teach88 wrote: »

You hear these kind of things every now and then. Apparently it's easier for males to get, say, a job as a French teacher as most applicants are female. To be honest, I havn't found it to be the case... and rightly so.

Someone mention that only 10% are male . I don't know if this is true but if it is it would mean that it would impossible to notice if being male would be a slight advantage as any advantage would be swamped by the sheer number of women.

daviecronin

Its just I was told this by a teacher who was once a secondary school teacher and is now a primary school teacher. I did hear about that a 'male' role model needed in schools due to single parent families. I just think it might be easier as I was told so by that teacher and that they are highly sought after and they are going to drop the points in it again?

afkasurfjunkie

daviecronin wrote: »

Its just I was told this by a teacher who was once a secondary school teacher and is now a primary school teacher. I did hear about that a 'male' role model needed in schools due to single parent families. I just think it might be easier as I was told so by that teacher and that they are highly sought after and they are going to drop the points in it again?

It doesn't seem to be the case. I know a guy who has just qualified and has represented his country in sport and he is still looking for work and subbing here and there. Competition is so fierce now that it is your results, achievements and experience that stand to you.
Some male principals may see you as a threat and prefer to hire women, other schools don't normally put males in junior classes. Of course there are always exceptions but I certainly wouldn't go into teaching with my gender being the only edge I have on other applicants.
A good grasp of the Irish language, along with sport, music or drama achievements will be much more beneficial to you

doc_17

This may have been true a few years ago. I have a few friends who are primary school teachers and I know that the fellas got work straight away, full time, and the girls got the odd bit of subbing here and there. But my sample space is too small to conclude anything other than it must have been luck!

Hypothetical time.....say there was a job and the panel decided that two candidates stood out from all the rest. They deemed them equal in all aspects. One was a man....one a woman. Maybe the OP is asking in that case would they give the job to the man?

rainbowtrout

daviecronin wrote: »

Its just I was told this by a teacher who was once a secondary school teacher and is now a primary school teacher. I did hear about that a 'male' role model needed in schools due to single parent families. I just think it might be easier as I was told so by that teacher and that they are highly sought after and they are going to drop the points in it again?

Colleges don't set the points for a course. Points are determined by the demand for the course.

If there are 50 places on a college course and 100 people apply and they are ranked by points and the top 50 people each get 600 points in the LC, then the points for the course for that year are 600.

If on the other hand the following year 100 people apply for the same course, 10 people get 600, 10 people get 550, 10 people get 400, 10 people get 390 and 10 people get 350 and the remaining 50 get 320. Well when you rank them the points score for the 50th person on the list is 350 and that is the points needed to be offered a place that year.

Points for primary school teaching have been in the 460-475 mark for the last few years, demand and number of places hasn't changed wildly in that time period, but the number of jobs available has changed drastically.

daviecronin

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

It doesn't seem to be the case. I know a guy who has just qualified and has represented his country in sport and he is still looking for work and subbing here and there. Competition is so fierce now that it is your results, achievements and experience that stand to you.
Some male principals may see you as a threat and prefer to hire women, other schools don't normally put males in junior classes. Of course there are always exceptions but I certainly wouldn't go into teaching with my gender being the only edge I have on other applicants.
A good grasp of the Irish language, along with sport, music or drama achievements will be much more beneficial to you

Everyone thinks Im a big sport person. Im not. I am more music and drama. By the end of school I will have Grade 8's (Highest grade.) done in Piano, Singing and Acting and I have lots of medals and certificates to show that. I will be singing for Micheal D soon aswell. I also am teaching maths in the resource room as a part of my Ty. So I was just wondering how teaching would have suited me. Sorry for bragging..

daviecronin

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Colleges don't set the points for a course. Points are determined by the demand for the course.

If there are 50 places on a college course and 100 people apply and they are ranked by points and the top 50 people each get 600 points in the LC, then the points for the course for that year are 600.

If on the other hand the following year 100 people apply for the same course, 10 people get 600, 10 people get 550, 10 people get 400, 10 people get 390 and 10 people get 350 and the remaining 50 get 320. Well when you rank them the points score for the 50th person on the list is 350 and that is the points needed to be offered a place that year.

Points for primary school teaching have been in the 460-475 mark for the last few years, demand and number of places hasn't changed wildly in that time period, but the number of jobs available has changed drastically.

The points are going to drop soon due to no demand? Sorry another question ahha..! If I don't have a science for the leaving cert does it matter? Applied Maths is kind of a science

Missyelliot2

daviecronin wrote: »

Everyone thinks Im a big sport person. Im not. I am more music and drama. By the end of school I will have Grade 8's (Highest grade.) done in Piano, Singing and Acting and I have lots of medals and certificates to show that. I will be singing for Micheal D soon aswell. I also am teaching maths in the resource room as a part of my Ty. So I was just wondering how teaching would have suited me. Sorry for bragging..

Go for it! You sound ideal for any school.

If you do love kids, have huge enthusiasm.......and above all, just be yourself, you will do so well! You don't need certs/diplomas etc - you need to get out there, meet principals - it will work out for you. Good Luck!

daviecronin

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

Go for it! You sound ideal for any school.

If you do love kids, have huge enthusiasm.......and above all, just be yourself, you will do so well! You don't need certs/diplomas etc - you need to get out there, meet principals - it will work out for you. Good Luck!

THANK YOU....!

amdublin

The best candidate will get the job. Being male or female does not have an impact on this decision (it is illegal to use that as part of the decision making process).

So to answer your original question: no

daviecronin

amdublin wrote: »

The best candidate will get the job. Being male or female does not have an impact on this decision (it is illegal to use that as part of the decision making process).

So to answer your original question: no

Okay

paulie22315

amdublin wrote: »

The best candidate will get the job. Being male or female does not have an impact on this decision (it is illegal to use that as part of the decision making process).

So to answer your original question: no

?? Many apologies for the harshness of the post, however this is nothing short of idealistic rubbish. Men do not have babies, therefore require no maternity leave. On the basis of this many places will hire a man over a woman as there are many on their second or more consecutive maternity leaves using up the system, and kudos for this.
There are other reasons but all are more or less subjective as you cannot say what each individual principal wants with any broadstroke of certainty.
So to answer his question...Yes itbis easier get a job as a man and all the laws in the world cannot change this.

paulie22315

amdublin wrote: »

The best candidate will get the job. Being male or female does not have an impact on this decision (it is illegal to use that as part of the decision making process).

So to answer your original question: no

?? Many apologies for the harshness of the post, however this is nothing short of idealistic rubbish. Men do not have babies, therefore require no maternity leave. On the basis of this many places will hire a man over a woman as there are many on their second or more consecutive maternity leaves using up the system, and kudos for this.
There are other reasons but all are more or less subjective as you cannot say what each individual principal wants with any broadstroke of certainty.
So to answer his question...Yes itbis easier get a job as a man and all the laws in the world cannot change this.

paulie22315

daviecronin wrote: »

Hello People! Its me again I already started a thread a while ago about Primary school teaching. I was at careers day the other day. I was taking to a Primary school teacher who was a secondary school teacher as well. I asked him a lot of questions and one question I asked him would it be easier to get a job as a man? I also told him about my interest in drama and music. He said it would be so much easier to get a job as a man. He said because they are trying to balance the ratio? Is this true? Some people might agree or may not agree? But maybe if any current primary school teacher could answer me? Thanks you so much in advance!

Hello there, of course it is easier, many of the other teachers on here will post the ideal 'best candidate' notion for any job..,and it is illegal etc etc.
Women are hammering the system with maternity year in year out which is hassle for the schools via disruption and getting subs in etc. Do men have maternity leave? No. I assume you can draw the realism from this without further divulging any 'illegal' truth. Best of luck.

paulie22315

daviecronin wrote: »

Hello People! Its me again I already started a thread a while ago about Primary school teaching. I was at careers day the other day. I was taking to a Primary school teacher who was a secondary school teacher as well. I asked him a lot of questions and one question I asked him would it be easier to get a job as a man? I also told him about my interest in drama and music. He said it would be so much easier to get a job as a man. He said because they are trying to balance the ratio? Is this true? Some people might agree or may not agree? But maybe if any current primary school teacher could answer me? Thanks you so much in advance!

Hello there, of course it is easier, many of the other teachers on here will post the ideal 'best candidate' notion for any job..,and it is illegal etc etc.

Inappropriate posting is not appreciated

gaeilgebeo

One of the most ridiculous and obnoxious posts I have ever seen in the Teaching and Lecturing forum! :rolleyes:

My only hope is that you, yourself are not a teacher!

whiteandlight

Please use the report post button everyone. Thanks

daviecronin

Guys I was asking a question I didn't want to offend anyone

whiteandlight

It wasn't your post that was referred to. The offending one has been edited

daviecronin

Okay thanks

paulie22315

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

One of the most ridiculous and obnoxious posts I have ever seen in the Teaching and Lecturing forum! :rolleyes:

My only hope is that you, yourself are not a teacher!

Oh indeed I am a teacher, in addition to this I am a psychologist and a qualified psychotherapist specialising in mental health for children.
I find it Incredible that someone would report my original post. If any individual can come up with empirical evidence to suggest that assertions regarding the system which surrounds maternity leave is incorrect, then I would retract any statement made. I do not believe the figures exist for such declarations.

There are ladies right now who will be year in and out timing their pregnancies around the school year with a view to a september birth or whichever way it suits them for paid leave, I have witnessed, and heard these discussions myself.

In regards to my original post, is it easier to get a job as a man, well on the basis of how the system is being used, in my subjective opinion (which I am entitled to) yes it can be, I cannot speak for every principal, but some principals I know personally would most certainly take a man. Interestingly most ladies on here disagree, well I womder if gender quota's were introduced how the birth rates around september might drop.

Think of a school as a business, humans take the line of least resistance, hiring a man may lead to this in reality.

TheDriver

paulie22315 wrote: »

There are ladies right now who will be year in and out timing their pregnancies around the school year with a view to a september birth or whichever way it suits them for paid leave, I have witnessed, and heard these discussions myself.

so? Isn't it human nature to maximise any benefit that you might receive otherwise you are basically throwing money away?? With the new 6 months including holidays arrangements however, it isn't as lucrative however who can blame anyone for working the system to their benefit, its not like its going to be happening every year for 10 years.

paulie22315

TheDriver wrote: »

so? Isn't it human nature to maximise any benefit that you might receive otherwise you are basically throwing money away?? With the new 6 months including holidays arrangements however, it isn't as lucrative however who can blame anyone for working the system to their benefit, its not like its going to be happening every year for 10 years.

Is it human nature to maximise the benefits? I would probably agree with you there, however I dont htink that the taxpayers would.

Pinkycharm

paulie22315 wrote: »

Oh indeed I am a teacher, in addition to this I am a psychologist and a qualified psychotherapist specialising in mental health for children.
I find it Incredible that someone would report my original post. If any individual can come up with empirical evidence to suggest that assertions regarding the system which surrounds maternity leave is incorrect, then I would retract any statement made. I do not believe the figures exist for such declarations.

There are ladies right now who will be year in and out timing their pregnancies around the school year with a view to a september birth or whichever way it suits them for paid leave, I have witnessed, and heard these discussions myself.

In regards to my original post, is it easier to get a job as a man, well on the basis of how the system is being used, in my subjective opinion (which I am entitled to) yes it can be, I cannot speak for every principal, but some principals I know personally would most certainly take a man. Interestingly most ladies on here disagree, well I womder if gender quota's were introduced how the birth rates around september might drop.

Think of a school as a business, humans take the line of least resistance, hiring a man may lead to this in reality.

As someone who was primary and moved to secondary sector I think that your posts are comical. Both my parents are primary principals and just showed them this post. My brother is a primary school teacher also and you would think having parents in the business would also make him more attractive to posts but no. He applied for a job in my mother's school and didn't get it because she felt a female teacher who also applied was the better candidate. Both have turned male candidates away because they rely too much in their sport to get them the job, with some feeling just because they play for a county team that they are entitled to it. Not the case. Thankfully he did secure a job in the end in a school when another teacher turned it down. I think he's a great tea her and he has great references he just was t what some schools were looking for and he has the sport etc going for him too. Ironically it was his choice because he felt it was an easy way into a job but learned the hard way that in the real world and in this century equality reigns!

That male thing may have been true years ago but now it's gone out the window. There are too many people and not enough jobs. From their professional experience they would never hire someone based on gender. Maternity leave is what it is. If women don't have babies we don't have high enrolments but in saying that the system was abused highly by some. That's how I got my job now. Someone on maternity leave just decided not to come back. I also have a son who I planned to have in July so I didn't need to go on maternity leave, I worked right up until the end of June and was back in August so we're all not out for the time off.

A man will get the job if he's the better candidate not because he is male.

That's our opinions anyways.

paulie22315

Pinkycharm wrote: »

As someone who was primary and moved to secondary sector I think that your posts are comical. Both my parents are primary principals and just showed them this post. My brother is a primary school teacher also, just qualified last year and you would think having parents in the business would also make him more attractive to posts but no. He applied for a job in my mother's school and didn't get it because she felt a female teacher who also applied was the better candidate.

That male thing may have been true years ago but now it's gone out the window. There are too many people and not enough jobs. From their professional experience they would never hire someone based on gender. Maternity leave is what it is. If women don't have babies we don't have high enrolments but in saying that the system was abused highly by some. That's how I got my job now. Someone on maternity leave just decided not to come back. I also have a son who I planned to have in July so I didn't need to go on maternity leave, I worked right up until the end of June and was back in August so we're all not out for the time off.

A man will get the job if he's the better candidate not because he is male.

That's our opinions anyways.

I respect your opinion in its entirety, however i respectfully submit that what i said in my last post was that 'it can be easier', and not dogmatically that it is easier thank you kindly.

Also why would having parents as teachers in your opinion make it easier to get a job as a teacher then eh?

I am all for right candidate for the job, which is the subjective opinion of the principal of whatever school the application is made to.

On the basis of this whether you find my comments comical or not is comical in itself, because your opinion is based on conjecture, and not fact so it is as just as relevant to mine. No more and no less in fact.

Having Mammy and Daddy as teachers wont change that fact, neither you nor they can speak for any principal(save being one themselves) in their cases their own schools. Beyond the boundary of those schools is another principals choice.

Our wonderful minister has made excellent decision on higher level maths and Irish also btw.

Good day.

whiteandlight

This thread has been bumped unnecessarily and is off topic. Closed now.