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Nursing or Midwifery?
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29-09-2013 5:25pm#1
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another question wrote: »My problem is that everyone says that nursing is a vocation and I simply do not consider myself to be one of those people who are born to be nurses, full of patience and compassion. On the other hand, I would consider myself to make an excellent Midwife, primarily for the same reasons you state. Those being that I have a huge interest in the promotion of women's health, especially in pre, intra and post pregnancy.
I'm a mature student doing general nursing - in 4th year. Another Question, you mentioned being concerned about wasting time training, I can testify that the time flies. It honestly feels like only yesterday I started the course. For post graduate midwifery training the student is employed by the hospital, so it's not sitting on a college campus for 18 months.
Just wanted to comment on the description of nursing as a vocation. Yes, there's a uniform, but there's no habit or veil, and there's no vows.
The word 'vocation' is a bit of a red flag to me at the moment as it's popped up in conversations about the pay cuts for the Graduate employment scheme for nurses and midwives that the HSE have introduced, and the "but, you don't do it for the money, it's a vocation" platitude....
I've needed patience, but I've needed that in any and every job I've had that deals with the public/customers. Yes, compassion is important in nursing - but not any more so than it is for midwifery. Health promotion is vital in both roles.
More info on the salary scales can be found on the INMO site http://www.inmo.ie/salary_information
BUT - be cautious making any decisions based strongly on the pay as everything can change dramatically. Compare the scales from 2009 when I was making the decision to change career to the scales that apply now, and remember that new entrants are more likely to be penalised if any of the rules regarding dual qualification allowances change.
There can be an emotional toll to any job in healthcare when it resonates with something in your own life. I've found it a bit upsetting to come across patients that remind me of my parents or other loved ones. It's also reminded me to make sure i'm providing the best care possibly - these patients are somebody's loved one, so it's a positive part of the job too.
QueenBee1, when you're making the decision bear in mind that the direct entry midwifery course is still very new and even nursing itself being taught as a degree is new and there might be a lot of change happening, which may not affect 2014 entrants. More details here on the recent Dept of Health review of the undergrad programmes
http://www.dohc.ie/issues/nmr/
So, what that means is that any midwife who has been working for a few years would have automatically trained under the old system, and thus may automatically think of it as the best route.
My own thoughts? I started the nursing course with one or two ideas about what areas I'd like to work in. Those ideas have changed repeatedly, especially after exposure to different areas. I had no idea I'd enjoy my children's placement so much, or that i'd be fascinated by long term care for spinal injuries, or that care of the elderly would make me think about working in palliative care in a community setting....and nearly all of my classmates would feel the same. The general nursing training has given my the chance to experience lots of different areas, and the qualification will give me a lot of flexibility in my career.
But, i'm still at the very start of my career. It's a while yet till the CAO deadline, and even longer again till the change of mind forms next summer, so QueenBee1 and Another Question I'd advise continuing to talk to people working in nursing and midwifery to get as many perspectives as possible.0 -
Thank you both for your replies. I suppose there is much more flexibility with the general degree because who knows in 20 years time you may wish to change areas and you may be stuck in Midwifery. I wont worry too much yet I am going to leave it to fate
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3) You seem to have gained a lot of exposure in different hospital departments like childrens and spinal injuries - are the wards/placements on which you go on set by the university or are there some compulsory and some which are optional based on the students own interests. Basically, do all nursing students get the same exposure to all different types of patients.
We do 'core' and 'specialist' placements. Core is medical and surgical wards, they can be cardiac, respiratory, what have you. Specialist (for general nurses) involves areas such as A&E, ICU, cardiac ICU, public health nurse, stroke rehab, theatre, day theatre, out patients, endoscopy, hospice, paediatrics, maternity, burns unit, intellectual disability, psychiatry...there are loads of specialist areas.
Some of them (like theatre and A&E) we are all required to do. You won't do all of them though. You get set placements by your university in conjucntion with the hospitals. If there's an area you're really interested in that you don't get exposure to you can arrange to do an elective in it.
In my university we did ten weeks in first year. Five surgical and five medical. In second and third year we did a lot more, and it's a mix of core and specialist. 4th year is all core.
4) How do you find the timetable/full-time course. I have a sister in college at the moment in Year 2 of Arts and even though it's called a full-time course so must be in lectures for only 8-10 hours per week, it's crazy and even then as little as it is, she has awkward times like 10pm and 5pm on a Friday when she's trying to get home. Is the nursing course relatively 9-5 or how does the schedule very when you're on placement.
When you're on placement you are required to complete a 35 hour working week. That's without breaks, so in reality you're in hospital for 40 ish hours a week. In some hospitals you do three 12 hour shifts a week, in other settings it's 7 hours 5 days a week. It depends. When you're in lectures it's almost 9-5, you'll usually have a half day on a Wednesday or a Friday. It's quite full on though, you'll need to be prepared for that.
5) I'm out of a study environment for about 8 years and I don't know how I'm going to handle the workload. Even in school, I was fine 'in school' attentive etc but when it came to homework in the evenings and at weekends, I was brutal. How much of a 'homework/workload' is there outside of normal college hours and how do you find it. - I'll be travelling and working aswell and I hope that I won't end up putting myself under too much pressure.
There's people in my class who have jobs and mortgages and children - don't know how they juggle it all but they do. I fit in part time work and occasional trips home - it's very doable. You just can't let it all pile up.
7) Have you ever encountered anyone in your 4 years studying who has hated nursing and wished they had never started or dropped out.
I'm only in 3rd year - have met people who loathed 1st and 2nd year and loved 3rd and 4th when you get more autonomy. You'll have **** days, stick with it. They're worth it for the lovely ones.
8) How do you find the 'messy' aspects to the job - did you find that it became second nature quite quickly or does it have any real effect on you at all. When I hear about bed pans and changing sheets etc I still find it a bit much to listen to and it's for reasons like that, that I think maybe I'm not the type of person that should be considering this as a career.
Changing sheets?! That's the least messy job! The ickiest is probably emptying commodes. It's still **** you're dealing with no matter how you look at it, and **** will always smell like ****. It doesn't bother me at all, and I think it's cause we're taught to see things from the patients point of view and to respect their dignity. So you're not like UGH UGH **** you're like 'John's embarrassed by his recent incontinence, so I'll be super respectful and sound and reassuring, and deal with this in the loveliest manner possible' or 'WOOHOO JOHN DID A ****! He hadn't opened his bowels in 8 days and he was really sick and now he feels ten times better!'. It's all about perspective. Some wounds can be pretty gross too but super interesting. You'll develop a fantastic gag reflex.
Hope this helps. You didn't ask me, but I'm SUPER enthusiastic about nursing at the moment, just came off a great shift[/QUOTE] 0 -
hey another question, i'll dip in and out of this thread and answer your questions in bits - am in The Land of Assignments at the moment and it's a nice break to think about something other.
1) You said the post-grad midwifery training is treated as employment by the hospital. Is it full on the job training and is it paid or is it the same pay as student nurses at the moment which is due to be phased out.
Post registration midwifery students are employees of the hospital for the duration of the the training - the undergrad direct entry midwife students aren't until their 4th year internship.
Details of Holles Street's diploma here:
http://www.nmh.ie/education/higher-diploma-of-midwifery.266.html
The 4th year internship (9 months full time placement at the end of the degree after all the theoretical instruction) pay for nurse/midwife undergrads isn't to be phased out....yet. At 50% of the first point of the salary scale it's less than minimum wage.
2) Does the paid training apply to all other post-grad nursing studies aswell like prescibing/a&e/peri-operative etc.
This one is a bit complicated, and would probably benefit from the input of nurse/midwives who've been qualified for a while.
It seems to me talking to nurses on placement that if they've "done the course" for that specialist area they're in that they did it while working in that area (e.g. ICU, ortho, cardiac) and the fees were met by their employer. But for less specialised courses like management or education they sometimes paid the fees themselves - all courses seem to be run part time, and would be done alongside work.
So they're a bit different from what might be considered traditional post grads (full time, on a college campus, etc). Only exception i've come across is post grads in nurse research, which are more acadamic and based in nurse/midwife depts in universities.
Again though, I'm looking at this from the view of an undergrad, so don't take this as the definitive answer.
Nurse/midwife prescribing is a bit more complicated as there's a requirement to have been registered for a certain number of years, and to have been practising in the area the n/m will be prescribing in for a specific amount of time too.
Clinical Nurse Specialists are v experienced in their area, have additional qualifications and there isn't that many of them - a hospital may have only one tissue viability nurse or a handful of diabetes nurse specialists for example That's the level of specialisation that takes nurses away from the bedside, the cardiac trained nurses I mentioned before who've 'done the course' would work in the cardiac unit and would be responsible for the patients entire care (washes, skin integrity, nutritional intake, etc) as well as their cardiac specific care and monitoring.
I don't know much about specialising for midwives, have come across some who seem to spend more time doing ante and post natal stuff in the community (e.g. the Domino scheme at Holles Street).
3) You seem to have gained a lot of exposure in different hospital departments like childrens and spinal injuries - are the wards/placements on which you go on set by the university or are there some compulsory and some which are optional based on the students own interests. Basically, do all nursing students get the same exposure to all different types of patients.
We didn't all do the same placements, but it sort of evens out over the 4 years. I've never been on a transplant unit, but I've come across post transplant patients who're in for something completely different and I learnt about post transplant drug regimes, etc that way. Like Extrasupervery said, there's a certain amount of placement in each area that we all did - e.g. I did my two week psych placement in the psych unit of a general hospital, other class mates did their two weeks in a specialised psych hospital.
We didn't get to have any input into our placements regarding our interests, but the colleges and hospitals will work with you with preferences regarding other factors - for instance, if a family member were to be a long term patient in/out of a particular ward or unit (or had died there recently) they are v good about not sending you there once you let them know.
A lot depends on geography and what sites are available to the college to send ppl too - there's some places in Dublin that get nursing students from DCU, Trinity and UCD (community drug treatment for instance, or the public health nurses).0 -
Extrasupervery wrote: »
Hope this helps. You didn't ask me, but I'm SUPER enthusiastic about nursing at the moment, just came off a great shift
I
those kind of days on placement. 0 -
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4) How do you find the timetable/full-time course. I have a sister in college at the moment in Year 2 of Arts and even though it's called a full-time course so must be in lectures for only 8-10 hours per week, it's crazy and even then as little as it is, she has awkward times like 10pm and 5pm on a Friday when she's trying to get home. Is the nursing course relatively 9-5 or how does the schedule very when you're on placement.
When in college for lectures I've always been in 4 days a week, and they might be 9 to 4 or 5. The 'day off' is usually eaten up by trying to keep up with reading and assignments.
When on placement it varies depending on the setting. Some were a 5 day week of 'short' days, so the 37.5 hours (39 hours now due to the Haddington Road agreement) were split by 5 (e.g. out patients department, public health nurse, day surgery unit), usually a 8am start.
When on the wards it was three 'long' days, 7.30 to 20.15. And that's 7.30am in uniform, on the ward, wide awake and ready to go - took a while to get used to that.
5) I'm out of a study environment for about 8 years and I don't know how I'm going to handle the workload. Even in school, I was fine 'in school' attentive etc but when it came to homework in the evenings and at weekends, I was brutal. How much of a 'homework/workload' is there outside of normal college hours and how do you find it. - I'll be travelling and working aswell and I hope that I won't end up putting myself under too much pressure.
i'm in 4th year and still struggling a bit with this. The colleges do all offer a lot of support with study techniques and the lecturers are helpful. I'm grand studying for exams, it's doing assignments i find difficult - other people are the opposite.
Little and often is my mantra and i'm trying to stick to it.
6) How do you find budgeting again as a student. I intend to apply for BTEA instead of the student grant as I receive JA at the moment because I only work part-time hours. I can barely live on what I get at the moment and I'd just like to get a matures perspective on it.
The course itself doesn't have many costs - the uniforms are provided by the hospitals, one pair of nursey shoes will last for 4 years if looked after and books can be picked up second hand or are in the college library. Most of my class have part time jobs, lots doing agency care work or part time in nursing homes.
It's doable. I think there's some forums here on boards about student finances and mature students that might have more info.
7) Have you ever encountered anyone in your 4 years studying who has hated nursing and wished they had never started or dropped out.
Like any course - some did drop out in first year. A hand full now know they don't want to work in hospital nursing (don't know what the story is with the undergrad midwives in my year), but will finish the course and might end up doing something healthcare-related, or run off and join the circus or whatever.
8) How do you find the 'messy' aspects to the job - did you find that it became second nature quite quickly or does it have any real effect on you at all. When I hear about bed pans and changing sheets etc I still find it a bit much to listen to and it's for reasons like that, that I think maybe I'm not the type of person that should be considering this as a career.
Ditto me on all Extrasupervery said on that.0 -
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The nursing board have put together a self assessment questionnaire for anyone considering a career in nursing/midwifery.
http://www.nursingboard.ie/en/news-article.aspx?article=a0058e80-b0b8-4ebb-8c67-289a64164991 0 -
The nursing board have put together a self assessment questionnaire for anyone considering a career in nursing/midwifery.
http://www.nursingboard.ie/en/news-article.aspx?article=a0058e80-b0b8-4ebb-8c67-289a64164991
Thanks a mill cuckoo ... going to have a look now 0 -
The nursing board have put together a self assessment questionnaire for anyone considering a career in nursing/midwifery.
http://www.nursingboard.ie/en/news-article.aspx?article=a0058e80-b0b8-4ebb-8c67-289a64164991
thanks for this cuckoo 0 -
The nursing board have put together a self assessment questionnaire for anyone considering a career in nursing/midwifery.
http://www.nursingboard.ie/en/news-article.aspx?article=a0058e80-b0b8-4ebb-8c67-289a64164991
I hadn't a very confidence inducing result what about you Queenbee? 0 -
another question wrote: »I hadn't a very confidence inducing result what about you Queenbee?
im happy with the results! It said it "encouraged" me to apply! Try it again maybe you may have mixed up some of the questions some of them are tricky and you really have to think of the answers!
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