Driving without license

E.B

Whats the story if i go driving without my license and get stopped? when i say without my license i mean that my license is in my car on the other side of the country. in the heat of the moment and lapse in concentration i forgot to take the dam thing with me!If i get stopped at a check point will i just be asked to present it at my local garda station within 7 days or will i be told to get out and walk?

Denis322

You have 10 days to bring your license to your local garda station so you should be fine.

slimjimmc

It doesn't even have to be your local station, you can nominate any station in the State but afaik you have to go to the one you nominate. Handy considering the number of small local stations with restricted opening hours.

corktina

you are required to have your license with you when driving however in practise I assume they will give you 10 days to present it. They could book you but I doubt they would.

CiniO

That's a very good question.
Could they stop someone, and after discovering he doesn't have a licence with him, just tow the car away and let him walk?

On the one hand - it looks a bit like overkill just for forgetting a document.
But on the other hand, someone might really not hold a licence or be disqualified, and in that case gards shouldn't let such person drive off.

corktina

no they wouldn't do that but they could book you there and then as it's an offence not to have your license on you.

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

no they wouldn't do that but they could book you there and then as it's an offence not to have your license on you.

I don't think it's an fixed charge offence.
So they can't issue fixed charge notice. (unless I'm wrong here).

What do you mean by "book you there and then"?

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

That's a very good question.
Could they stop someone, and after discovering he doesn't have a licence with him, just tow the car away and let him walk?

On the one hand - it looks a bit like overkill just for forgetting a document.
But on the other hand, someone might really not hold a licence or be disqualified, and in that case gards shouldn't let such person drive off.

He can seize the car under S.I. No. 89/1995 if the driver is too young for a licence (RTA 1994 Sect 41.1a).
He can arrest the driver on the spot if he fails or refuses to give the Garda his true name, address and date of birth RTA 2010.

corktina

CiniO wrote: »

I don't think it's an fixed charge offence.
So they can't issue fixed charge notice. (unless I'm wrong here).

What do you mean by "book you there and then"?

Murder One Danno....


Put your details in the book and summons you..what else could it mean? Quote Shakespeare to you? :-)

ofcork

How often are people asked for licences anyway,ive had to show mine 3 times in 15 years tops.

bazz26

ofcork wrote: »

How often are people asked for licences anyway,ive had to show mine 3 times in 15 years tops.

Usually straight away if you commit some sort of traffic offense and are pulled over. Randomly I'd say very rare.

2012paddy2012

E.B wrote: »

Whats the story if i go driving without my license and get stopped? when i say without my license i mean that my license is in my car on the other side of the country. in the heat of the moment and lapse in concentration i forgot to take the dam thing with me!If i get stopped at a check point will i just be asked to present it at my local garda station within 7 days or will i be told to get out and walk?

You are committing an offence under the road traffic act. You can be summoned or indeed a fixed penalty notice can issue. It's black and white.
You as in every sphere in life , can meet an understanding police man or the opposite. You would have no issue if you complied with the law which you have not.

Remember the law is an ass.

Denis322

Its one of the most basic questions in the driver theory test. If you don't have your license on you, you have 10 days to produce your license at the garda station. They aren't going to arrest you or seize your car just because you don't have your license.

Valetta

If you are stopped at a mandatory breath test and don't have your license with you, you will be tested at the lower limit of 30mg instead of 50 .

CiniO

Valetta wrote: »

If you are stopped at a mandatory breath test and don't have your license with you, you will be tested at the lower limit of 30mg instead of 50 .

Lower limit is 20mg not 30mg.

I assume this is to facilitate that you might be a learner driver or don't hold full licence for 2 years yet.

But I suppose, if you f.e. end up wit 45mg, they can't prosecute you for drink driving, once you will be able to prove later that you hold a full licence for more than 2 years.

CiniO

Denis322 wrote: »

Its one of the most basic questions in the driver theory test. If you don't have your license on you, you have 10 days to produce your license at the garda station. They aren't going to arrest you or seize your car just because you don't have your license.

They should if your don't have a licence at all.
Like why someone driving unlicensed should be allowed to drive any further after a garda check?

Only problem here for gards here is to distinguish those who don't have licence at all, from those who just forgot to take document with them.

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

Murder One Danno....


Put your details in the book and summons you..what else could it mean? Quote Shakespeare to you? :-)

Sorry. Even though I live here for good few years, I'm still not fully fluent with all the slang used. I honestly didn't know what "book someone" meant.

CiniO

slimjimmc wrote: »

He can seize the car under S.I. No. 89/1995 if the driver is too young for a licence (RTA 1994 Sect 41.1a).
He can arrest the driver on the spot if he fails or refuses to give the Garda his true name, address and date of birth RTA 2010.

Hmmm.

So does that mean, that anyone who is 18 and over (and can prove it on the spot), can drive a car without holding a driving licence at all (never passed a test) and in case of road check when garda asks for licence and he fails to produce it, he can keep on driving further.
IMHO it's madness, but it looks like that's how it works according to your links.

cython

CiniO wrote: »

They should if your don't have a licence at all.
Like why someone driving unlicensed should be allowed to drive any further after a garda check?

Only problem here for gards here is to distinguish those who don't have licence at all, from those who just forgot to take document with them.

Let's not forget those who have sent off a licence for renewal and have yet to receive it back. I know they may have a receipt as a backup (depending on whether they renewed in person or not) or an email stating the renewal was received, but this was an issue I saw coming a mile off when they were introducing the requirement to carry the licence at all times when driving.

Ultimately there are several scenarios where you may legitimately not have a license, nor be able to present within 10 days (what's the current backlog, or has it settled?) so the Gardai have to exercise discretion/best judgement in many cases.

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

Hmmm.

So does that mean, that anyone who is 18 and over (and can prove it on the spot), can drive a car without holding a driving licence at all (never passed a test) and in case of road check when garda asks for licence and he fails to produce it, he can keep on driving further.
IMHO it's madness, but it looks like that's how it works according to your links.

I expect the Garda could radio back to the station for a check on Pulse if so inclined, but as you say that's the way it looks. Could work for a 17 year old too (minimum age for a B licence).

CiniO

cython wrote: »

Let's not forget those who have sent off a licence for renewal and have yet to receive it back. I know they may have a receipt as a backup (depending on whether they renewed in person or not) or an email stating the renewal was received, but this was an issue I saw coming a mile off when they were introducing the requirement to carry the licence at all times when driving.

Ultimately there are several scenarios where you may legitimately not have a license, nor be able to present within 10 days (what's the current backlog, or has it settled?) so the Gardai have to exercise discretion/best judgement in many cases.

But to be honest, that's not a problem with Law or garda, but with way motortax offices work.

AFAIK Irish law has completely no leeway for this. So at least in theory, when you leave your licence in motortax office for exchange/renewal/etc. and keep driving (whether you have receipt or confirmation printout), then you are driving illegally. And if garda asked you to produce licence within 10 days and you wouldn't, then they could summons you and whether way you look at it, in court it would be clear that you didn't carry licence neither produced it in 10 days, which is an offence - so you could plead guilty.

Obviously in practice it's not going to happen, as garda and courts are aware how things are done in this country, and they don't enforce the laws which can't be obeyed.

But to be honest, the biggest culprit here is the way motortax offices issue the licences. I honestly can't understand why it couldn't be organised in a way that you only need to submit your old licence when new one is ready, so you don't end up without a licence at all.

cython

CiniO wrote: »

But to be honest, that's not a problem with Law or garda, but with way motortax offices work.

AFAIK Irish law has completely no leeway for this. So at least in theory, when you leave your licence in motortax office for exchange/renewal/etc. and keep driving (whether you have receipt or confirmation printout), then you are driving illegally. And if garda asked you to produce licence within 10 days and you wouldn't, then they could summons you and whether way you look at it, in court it would be clear that you didn't carry licence neither produced it in 10 days, which is an offence - so you could plead guilty.

Obviously in practice it's not going to happen, as garda and courts are aware how things are done in this country, and they don't enforce the laws which can't be obeyed.

But to be honest, the biggest culprit here is the way motortax offices issue the licences. I honestly can't understand why it couldn't be organised in a way that you only need to submit your old licence when new one is ready, so you don't end up without a licence at all.

It's not just the way the tax offices operate though, as even at the end of next month the license system will be taken out of their hands and centralised at which point I can only imagine that postal service or maybe online (doubtful though!) will be the only option. And as for submitting your old license when the new one is ready under the current system, for many people this would result in an extra trip to the office (assuming that you go in to renew, and then again to exchange) which is an unnecessary overhead too.

It was ok when it was possible to get the license issued over the counter (as I did when I passed my test) but under the current/new system and the lead time it has introduced as well as the ultimate removal of motor tax offices from the process such submissions are less than straightforward, as you either leave someone without a license, or trust them to return it upon receipt of the renewed one, at which point there is little incentive or rationale for them to do it, since they have their renewed license already.

CiniO

cython wrote: »

It's not just the way the tax offices operate though, as even at the end of next month the license system will be taken out of their hands and centralised at which point I can only imagine that postal service or maybe online (doubtful though!) will be the only option.

Indeed. With new system where everything will be done remotely either online or over the post, such possibly can no longer be that case.
But at least they should come up with some solution, and not just leave people without document for months for the hope that garda and courts will not enforce reguations requiring people to carry licence at all times.
Because it's ridiculous IMO.

And as for submitting your old license when the new one is ready under the current system, for many people this would result in an extra trip to the office (assuming that you go in to renew, and then again to exchange) which is an unnecessary overhead too.

I'm not saying that this should be obligatory way to make 2 trips.
For those who don't mind being without a licence for some time, they could leave old licence at application time, and wait for new one on the post.
For those who need their licence at all times, there should be an option to keep licence until new one is ready, and then pick up new one over the counter.
And I think even when motortax offices are completely taken off responsibility of dealing with driving licences, there still should be an option to keep licence and be able to pick new one when it's ready, even if this was to be available only in RSA headquarters or something.
There are genuinely people who drive abroad and need their licence for everyday, and just can't afford to be without for few months, or even weeks.
Last year I was in such situation, where I had to exchange licence, but could be without a document for more than few days. There was no option for me really, as waiting times was about 10 weeks.
If I had option to keep my licence, and pick new one when it's ready even in Dublin which is 300km away from my place, I would go for it.

It was ok when it was possible to get the license issued over the counter (as I did when I passed my test)

Hahhaha.
It was possible only if you smiled nicely to person in motortax office, or had a friend or uncle working there.
Otherwise it was not possible.
Me - as foreign national - I have no connections here in motor tax offices, and I couldn't get my licence over the counter.
But even fact that motor tax offices work like that is disgusting.

but under the current/new system and the lead time it has introduced as well as the ultimate removal of motor tax offices from the process such submissions are less than straightforward, as you either leave someone without a license, or trust them to return it upon receipt of the renewed one, at which point there is little incentive or rationale for them to do it, since they have their renewed license already.

No. Allowing people to keep licence and hoping they will post it back once they receive new one is not an option.
But as I proposed earlier - there should be at least one office in the country, where you will be able to pick up your new licence when it's ready while submitting the old one. So those who can't afford to be without a document for extended period of time, could sort out their problem there.

keithclancy

Do you have a scanned copy of your license ?

That's enough over here anyway, quite common when waiting on a renewal or exchange.

CiniO

keithclancy wrote: »

Do you have a scanned copy of your license ?

That's enough over here anyway, quite common when waiting on a renewal or exchange.

Surely it's not accepted by rental companies to rent a car.

Besides - would you drive abroad with photocopied driving licence?

2012paddy2012

Denis322 wrote: »

Its one of the most basic questions in the driver theory test. If you don't have your license on you, you have 10 days to produce your license at the garda station. They aren't going to arrest you or seize your car just because you don't have your license.

Incorrect: you ARE obliged to have your driving licence with you at ALL times::D

keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

Surely it's not accepted by rental companies to rent a car.

Besides - would you drive abroad with photocopied driving licence?

Rental Company no way.

But in General on the Continent if your stuck a Photocopy of your Passport is sufficient at a random control in the Schengen area (e.g. German/Dutch border, I've done it)

Also for your driving license if you have a photocopy the Police will accept this, unless of course you have done something wrong in which case they will nail your balls to the wall.

CiniO

keithclancy wrote: »

Rental Company no way.

But in General on the Continent if your stuck a Photocopy of your Passport is sufficient at a random control in the Schengen area (e.g. German/Dutch border, I've done it)

Also for your driving license if you have a photocopy the Police will accept this, unless of course you have done something wrong in which case they will nail your balls to the wall.

Heh maybe between Germany/Netherland/Belgium etc it works.
But I wouldn't advise trying it anywhere further East.
In Poland if you are in foreign registered car without your original licence on you (not photocopy), and with foreign passport, you will most likely end up walking down the road and looking how your car is being towed away.
The same probably is Eastern part of Germany closer to border with Poland, Czech republic, etc...

keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

Heh maybe between Germany/Netherland/Belgium etc it works.
But I wouldn't advise trying it anywhere further East.
In Poland if you are in foreign registered car without your original licence on you (not photocopy), and with foreign passport, you will most likely end up walking down the road and looking how your car is being towed away.
The same probably is Eastern part of Germany closer to border with Poland, Czech republic, etc...

Same in the Netherlands, however if you are in a Dutch Registered car then there is no problem as they can verify its your car.

Germans can verify the same.

However if say you were on Eastern European/Irish/UK plates your car would be up on a transporter and held in a depot until you could prove who you are and where you live.

CiniO

keithclancy wrote: »

Same in the Netherlands, however if you are in a Dutch Registered car then there is no problem as they can verify its your car.

Germans can verify the same.

However if say you were on Eastern European/Irish/UK plates your car would be up on a transporter and held in a depot until you could prove who you are and where you live.

See so that's my point.
Once you leave your Irish licence for exchange, you are without the document for few weeks or months.
And this literally makes you unable to drive anywhere abroad, maybe except from NI and possibly UK if you carry photocopy and police officer is nice.

ma88

does somebody know how long it takes to exchange an foreign license,and what details are needed/fees?
thanks.