Calling Deer

Cupid__Stunt

It seems from the wildlife act its illegal...???
35.—(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section, but subject to section 42, a person shall not—) use an electrical or other instrument or appliance (including recording apparatus) emitting or imitating birdcalls or the calls of wild mammals for the purpose of hunting a protected wild bird or a protected wild animal which is a mammal.

The Aussie

It was discussed by a few others a while ago here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057032519


BTW, I on the side of the fence that says it ain't cool, if you have to call them in because you can't go to them your not much of a Stalker, stick to paper maybe?













:pac:

Feidhlim Dignan

The Aussie wrote: »

It was discussed by a few others a while ago here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057032519


BTW, I on the side of the fence that says it ain't cool, if you have to call them in because you can't go to them your not much of a Stalker, stick to paper maybe?

I reckon a lot of so called stalkers in this country just wander around their permissions and sometimes happen across deer, then shoot the first or biggest they see. Maybe these are the guys that should be sticking to paper











:pac:

calling deer is as legitimate sport as any IMO. Never heard of it in this country but the in the uk and europe calling roe is big sport at certain times of the year, also on the other side of the pond the yanks and canadians call whitetail, elk and moose.

The Aussie

So much so they have MP3 downloads and species specific cards for electronic callers, is pushing a button what constitutes as a sport these days :rolleyes:

I still stand by my assertion of

The Aussie wrote: »

If you have to call them in because you can't go to them your not much of a Stalker.

FISMA

Hmm, lets see, hunting in Ireland

1. military grade scope... check
2. six month long hunting season... check
3. unlimited cull number... check
4. honor system reporting... check
5. rifle that rivals snipers... check
6. Lapua Naturalis or other superior ballistics ammunition, ... check
7. moderator... check
8. rangefinder... check
9. review of google Earth to source land... check
10. iphone ballistics ap... check
11. shooting sticks or bipod... check
12. back pack filled with Mars bars, Cidona, and Hula hoops... check
13. quad so I don't have to walk that far... check
14. car to get me where I keep the quad... check
15. Timney/Jewell trigger... check
16. Pillar bedded lightweight stock... check
17. cuppa... check
18. camo jacket, shirt, and hat, even though you're hunting deer and deer don't care about camo...check
19. blue jeans, even though deer do care and will spook... check
20. Glasses, preferably Oakley... check
21. anemometer... check
22. lens pen... check
23. flip-up see-through scope covers, in case you're not ready... check
24. drag bag, mat, or blanket, in case I need a shnuze... check
25. deer call...WHAT? How could you? Air-uh-shure, there's no sport in that!

:P

rowa

Hula hoops

tomtucker81

FISMA wrote: »

Hmm, lets see, hunting in Ireland

1. military grade scope... check
2. six month long hunting season... check
3. unlimited cull number... check
4. honor system reporting... check
5. rifle that rivals snipers... check
6. Lapua Naturalis or other superior ballistics ammunition, ... check
7. moderator... check
8. rangefinder... check
9. review of google Earth to source land... check
10. iphone ballistics ap... check
11. shooting sticks or bipod... check
12. back pack filled with Mars bars, Cidona, and Hula hoops... check
13. quad so I don't have to walk that far... check
14. car to get me where I keep the quad... check
15. Timney/Jewell trigger... check
16. Pillar bedded lightweight stock... check
17. cuppa... check
18. camo jacket, shirt, and hat, even though you're hunting deer and deer don't care about camo...check
19. blue jeans, even though deer do care and will spook... check
20. Glasses, preferably Oakley... check
21. anemometer... check
22. lens pen... check
23. flip-up see-through scope covers, in case you're not ready... check
24. drag bag, mat, or blanket, in case I need a shnuze... check
25. deer call...WHAT? How could you? Air-uh-shure, there's no sport in that!

:P

Thats what my pack mules carry so I can tread lightly.

natdog

Feidhlim Dignan wrote: »

also on the other side of the pond the yanks and canadians call whitetail, elk and moose.

ands that's why they are all fat fcuks they should try some stalking although they would probably do more damage to the fences than the deer.:D

The Aussie

FISMA wrote: »

quad so I don't have to walk that far... check

:pac:

pedroeibar1

It is not a question of what is skilful, acceptable or what happens elsewhere - it is what is legal in this country.

Section 35 of the 1976 Wildlife Act, as amended by the Wildlife amendment Act of 2000 clearly states that calls for deer are illegal. I would include rattling antlers in that. There are exceptions for some birds - geese and duck - and there also are [URL="[url]http://www.npws.ie/media/npwsie/content/Declaration for May 2013 - April 2014 All States.pdf[/url]"]derogations [/URL]under the EU Birds directive pertaining to some corvids and pigeons.

Updating Section 35 of the original Act with the 2000 Act amendments gives:-

35.—(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section, but subject to section 42, a person shall not—
“(a) use, for the purpose of hunting, repelling or scaring any wild bird or any wild animal—
(i) any live wild bird or live wild animal which is tethered or secured by braces or other similar appliance or which is confined in a cage or pen or which is blind, maimed or injured, or
(c) use a stuffed or artificial decoy in the form of any bird for the purpose of hunting any protected wild birds, other than wood pigeons wild duck and wild geese, or
(d) use an electrical or other instrument or appliance (including recording apparatus) emitting sound, for the purpose of hunting any wild bird or any wild animal.

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to the use of a whistle or similar instrument or appliance imitating, or emitting calls similar to, the calls of plover, wild duck or wild geese, which is operated (whether wholly or partly) manually or orally, for the purpose of hunting any of those wild birds.

(3) Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this section, the Minister may by order prohibit throughout the State or in any particular area thereof—
“(a) the use for hunting, repelling or scaring any wild bird or any wild animal of a species specified in the order of any stuffed or artificial decoy or any device, whistle, instrument or appliance which is of a particular type, class or description specified in the order, or
(b) the use of any orally or manually operated whistle or other instrument or appliance (not being recording apparatus) which imitates, or emits calls similar to, the calls of plover wild duck or wild geese or emits recorded such calls.

(4) Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this section, a decoy, vehicle or an instrument or appliance, including electrical or other recording apparatus emitting sound for the purpose of repelling, scaring or capturing any wild bird or any wild animal, may be used, pursuant to and in accordance with a licence granted in that behalf by the Minister, for scientific research or for another purpose approved of by the Minister.

(4A) Nothing in this section shall be construed as restricting—
(a) the practice of falconry lawfully carried out in accordance with a licence or licences granted in accordance with section 41 of this Act, or
(b) the taking, killing or use of a wild animal, which is not a protected wild animal, for the purpose of, or while engaged in the practice of fishing.”,
and the said subsections (1) (other than paragraphs (a), (b) and (d)) and (3) (other than paragraph (a)), as so amended, are set out in the Table to this section.

TABLE
(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section, but subject to section 42, a person shall not—
(c) use a stuffed or artificial decoy in the form of any bird for the purpose of hunting any protected wild birds, other than wood pigeons, wild duck and wild geese, or
(3) Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this section, the Minister may by order prohibit throughout the State or in any particular area thereof—
(b) the use of any orally or manually operated whistle or other instrument or appliance (not being recording apparatus) which imitates, or emits calls similar to, the calls of plover, wild duck or wild geese or emits recorded such calls.

strangles

natdog wrote: »

ands that's why they are all fat fcuks they should try some stalking although they would probably do more damage to the fences than the deer.:D

ha ha ha 100% correct

The Aussie

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

It is not a question of what is skilful, acceptable or what happens elsewhere - it is what is legal in this country.

Section 35 of the 1976 Wildlife Act, as amended by the Wildlife amendment Act of 2000 clearly states that calls for deer are illegal. I would include rattling antlers in that. There are exceptions for some birds - geese and duck

So, using Calls for Deer are illegal and all talk of their use should be banned from this forum?

Could I surmise from the above that a person who uses a Call for Deer is no better than a person who uses a Spotlight for Deer after dark and is in fact a Poacher?

rowa

(d) use an electrical or other instrument or appliance (including recording apparatus) emitting sound, for the purpose of hunting any wild bird or any wild animal.

But could you have your mate up the other end of the field with a call , calling ? He isn't hunting , you are, as you have the rifle. He just happens to be there looking to count deer numbers ?

pedroeibar1

rowa wrote: »

But could you have your mate up the other end of the field with a call , calling ? He isn't hunting , you are, as you have the rifle. He just happens to be there looking to count deer numbers ?

Try to prove that ..... ah ye see yer honour, I was just out for a walk like and was counting deer like and this fella who coincidentally was me mate like just happened to be up the the field with a rifle like and whatdoyaknow like he just upped and shot the creature like......

Not legal advice – my take is that both shooter and caller would be charged as principals in the crime, rather than the ‘caller’ being charged separately as an ‘accessory’ or for ‘aiding and abetting’. Legal quibbles aside on aid & abet or accessory (it is quite complex), it boils down to the caller with the iPhone and speakers would be treated in the same way as if he had actually shot the deer himself. Ass + sling.

It will be interesting to see (if what was posted earlier is true) how the Deer Assoc. handle this at their next show – I guess that they will vet the vendors and the products on offer more carefully.

pedroeibar1

The Aussie wrote: »

So, using Calls for Deer are illegal and all talk of their use should be banned from this forum?

Discussing where to get them and how to use them would incur the wrath of the Great Masters with the infraction cudgel.

rowa

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Try to prove that ..... ah ye see yer honour, I was just out for a walk like and was counting deer like and this fella who coincidentally was me mate like just happened to be up the the field with a rifle like and whatdoyaknow like he just upped and shot the creature like......

Try to prove it ? its not up to you to prove anything (apart from your innocence), its down to whoever catches you to prove your guilt, isn't it ? I asked about that particular situation because in the video below it seems to be exactly whats occuring.

http://youtu.be/y45RlnlzU9Y

about 10 mins in, one calling one shooting.

FISMA

The Aussie wrote: »

So, using Calls for Deer are illegal

Sounds like it Aussie, pun intended!

Note: I apologize in advance to Aussie, locals, and mods if this post sounds a bit antagonistic, it is not meant to be.

I, as many of you, watched Ireland get fished out during the heydays of the Celtic tiger. Places we fished as kids gone, perhaps, for good. Even after a decade of trying to restock, no luck.

Concisely: I hope Ireland's deer don't go the way of the fish.

Anyhow, I do not condescend on hunters in the States using calls. Mostly, because I have experienced what they have to go through.

When it comes to calls, you have to understand that in the States hunters might be bow hunting (which is illegal in Ireland). Where a 50yard shot is a long range shot, if not unethical and traipsing around a field with a bow trying to stalk a deer is not going to work too often.:P You have to get them in, stalking is not a realistic option. Especially, when your let may only be a few acres.

Also, don't forget that nowhere in the States is deer hunting with a big bore rifle legal for half the year. In some places, it is totally illegal to hunt deer with a big bore rifle.

This is where I question Irish deer hunting laws. A call is illegal, however, it is perfectly legal to cull a doe in February when the chances are high that she will be with a calf? A well developed, easily recognizable calf in utero? To me, that is far less sporting than a call.

Back to the States. Most rifle deer hunters will get one or two tags a year, if they are lucky. They often face zones that are sold out. Others will have to enter a lottery to shoot in their home state. In many states you might want to consider seeing a lawyer before you shoot so you do not wind up in jail with all the rules and regulations.

Cross state lines, and you need a new license and there are a whole new set of regulations. You'll probably want to see an out of state lawyer too!

Then, most open hunting seasons with rifles will be short. Maybe two weeks, if you are lucky. Other seasons are more generous like shotgun and bow. Sure there are longer specialized large bore rifle seasons, however, they are the exception. I doubt any State allow more than a month for open season large bore deer hunting. Have a look at PA's rules and regulations.

But don't forget, bow and shotgun often come first so the deer are already skitterish before the rifles get their shot.

So, if you have finally, often literally, won the lottery, sourced land, figure out how not to go to jail, and have a few days to shoot. If a call helps you put meat on the table, so be it.

The American hunter does not have the generous season that the Irish hunter does, nor are they allowed to cull at will, cull for profit, and report on the honor system. In many States when you get a deer, you must report to a station. Some stations require proof of sex be left on animals, others require the heads be in tact.

That's a stark contrast to all the headless deer coming out of fields or turning up at the butchers in Ireland in February. Some truly massive does they have in Ireland...

Show up at a station with anything wrong or out of place and you'll find yourself: without a license, fined heavily, and maybe in jail.

In some states where you can get two tags, you must shoot one at a time and fix the tag after the shot.

Suppose you have a pass through and get two at one time. Or shoot one, have a looker, and shoot the second. Good-bye license! Again, you must shoot one, fix tag, then shoot the other.

What if you shoot one and find it riddled with TB, CWD, or parasites? Sorry! Fix tag and report that day! Granted the Rangers are understanding and accommodating. You'll probably get a new tag. But, day lost, you may have just wasted 10-20% of the hunting season. If you have to go to work the next week, the season just may have ended for you.

Pegging a culled deer in to the ditch without reporting? You may just find yourself charged with Wanton Waste.

Think the Rangers aren't around? Well, maybe not always, but do it often enough and just roll the dice. You'll get better odds in Vegas.

I could go on, but I don't think begrudging a hunter in the States a call, given what they have to go through, is fair, knowing the plethora of rules and regulations that go against them.

Aussie, if you are familiar with the in's and out's of hunting deer in the Land Down Under, please advise. Would appreciate knowing what goes on in Australia or New Zealand. Plan to hunt there...

The Aussie

FISMA wrote: »

Note: I apologize in advance to Aussie, locals, and mods if this post sounds a bit antagonistic, it is not meant to be.

Nah, no need to apologise. In fact it was a well write post, unlike most of my semi-literate dribble...

FISMA wrote: »

This is where I question Irish deer hunting laws. A call is illegal, however, it is perfectly legal to cull a doe in February when the chances are high that she will be with a calf? A well developed, easily recognizable calf in utero? To me, that is far less sporting than a call.

I know where you are coming from regarding Does in February, I'm of the same feeling of Stags before the Rut, the 3 other blokes I would have dealings with have only taken one Pricket between the 4 of us for the freezer, after the Stags/Bucks have done the deed we will have a chat with them then. But unlike Calls, Does in February and Stags before the Rut is down to personal constraints, Calls are a Legal v Illegal debate.


Just for the record, and because I can (:pac:) I have been with a over priced guide in New Zealand who used a Call for my Sambar Deer, but unlike here in New Zealand Calls are perfectly legal and to be honest I feel it lessened the achievement of getting the Sambar, instead of taking pride of place.

Regarding Hunting in Oz and NZ I can answer most questions by PM if you want.

DEMOLISHER

FISMA wrote: »

Sounds like it Aussie, pun intended!

Note: I apologize in advance to Aussie, locals, and mods if this post sounds a bit antagonistic, it is not meant to be.

I, as many of you, watched Ireland get fished out during the heydays of the Celtic tiger. Places we fished as kids gone, perhaps, for good. Even after a decade of trying to restock, no luck.

Concisely: I hope Ireland's deer don't go the way of the fish.

Anyhow, I do not condescend on hunters in the States using calls. Mostly, because I have experienced what they have to go through.

When it comes to calls, you have to understand that in the States hunters might be bow hunting (which is illegal in Ireland). Where a 50yard shot is a long range shot, if not unethical and traipsing around a field with a bow trying to stalk a deer is not going to work too often.:P You have to get them in, stalking is not a realistic option. Especially, when your let may only be a few acres.

Also, don't forget that nowhere in the States is deer hunting with a big bore rifle legal for half the year. In some places, it is totally illegal to hunt deer with a big bore rifle.

This is where I question Irish deer hunting laws. A call is illegal, however, it is perfectly legal to cull a doe in February when the chances are high that she will be with a calf? A well developed, easily recognizable calf in utero? To me, that is far less sporting than a call.

Back to the States. Most rifle deer hunters will get one or two tags a year, if they are lucky. They often face zones that are sold out. Others will have to enter a lottery to shoot in their home state. In many states you might want to consider seeing a lawyer before you shoot so you do not wind up in jail with all the rules and regulations.

Cross state lines, and you need a new license and there are a whole new set of regulations. You'll probably want to see an out of state lawyer too!

Then, most open hunting seasons with rifles will be short. Maybe two weeks, if you are lucky. Other seasons are more generous like shotgun and bow. Sure there are longer specialized large bore rifle seasons, however, they are the exception. I doubt any State allow more than a month for open season large bore deer hunting. Have a look at PA's rules and regulations.

But don't forget, bow and shotgun often come first so the deer are already skitterish before the rifles get their shot.

So, if you have finally, often literally, won the lottery, sourced land, figure out how not to go to jail, and have a few days to shoot. If a call helps you put meat on the table, so be it.

The American hunter does not have the generous season that the Irish hunter does, nor are they allowed to cull at will, cull for profit, and report on the honor system. In many States when you get a deer, you must report to a station. Some stations require proof of sex be left on animals, others require the heads be in tact.

That's a stark contrast to all the headless deer coming out of fields or turning up at the butchers in Ireland in February. Some truly massive does they have in Ireland...

Show up at a station with anything wrong or out of place and you'll find yourself: without a license, fined heavily, and maybe in jail.

In some states where you can get two tags, you must shoot one at a time and fix the tag after the shot.

Suppose you have a pass through and get two at one time. Or shoot one, have a looker, and shoot the second. Good-bye license! Again, you must shoot one, fix tag, then shoot the other.

What if you shoot one and find it riddled with TB, CWD, or parasites? Sorry! Fix tag and report that day! Granted the Rangers are understanding and accommodating. You'll probably get a new tag. But, day lost, you may have just wasted 10-20% of the hunting season. If you have to go to work the next week, the season just may have ended for you.

Pegging a culled deer in to the ditch without reporting? You may just find yourself charged with Wanton Waste.

Think the Rangers aren't around? Well, maybe not always, but do it often enough and just roll the dice. You'll get better odds in Vegas.

I could go on, but I don't think begrudging a hunter in the States a call, given what they have to go through, is fair, knowing the plethora of rules and regulations that go against them.

Aussie, if you are familiar with the in's and out's of hunting deer in the Land Down Under, please advise. Would appreciate knowing what goes on in Australia or New Zealand. Plan to hunt there...

excellent post

Feidhlim Dignan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y45RlnlzU9Y

skip to 10 mins there using a sika call in donegal.

pedroeibar1

rowa wrote: »

Try to prove it ? its not up to you to prove anything (apart from your innocence), its down to whoever catches you to prove your guilt, isn't it ? I asked about that particular situation because in the video below it seems to be exactly whats occuring.
http://youtu.be/y45RlnlzU9Y
about 10 mins in, one calling one shooting.

Those words are loved by hungry lawyers; they’re loved almost as much as ‘It’s because of the principle!’
It does not work like that in real life. Get found with a caller in a field next to/near a shooter and you would most likely be successfully prosecuted. What you would expect to be your 15 minutes of fame would turn into a 5 minute case sandwiched between drunks, pub license business, speeding fine, etc. Then you have the option of arguing with the judge (who is already stressed with an overload of cases) and who will be mightily pi$$ed off by your position and probably will increase whatever penalty he had in mind for you. Next step is an appeal to the Circuit Court where even if you win you just MIGHT get your costs and if you lose you are looking at a bill of €15-20k.

Feidhlim Dignan wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y45RlnlzU9Y
skip to 10 mins there using a sika call in donegal.

There are many clips on YouTube that show idiots doing stupid things in cars, right now there are people driving at 130+ kph on the motorsways or people reading this while in traffic but that does not make it legal.
The law is clear – calling is illegal - – how/if/when/where it is enforced is down to local decision.
My guess is that we already have senior bods in the Deer associations asking ‘Did we allow a stallholder sell callers at our last show?’ and I expect that we will not see callers at their next show.