The effects of Meth being left out of the show?

Hazys

I love BB but if I have one criticism is that, it doesn't show the effects of the meth that the the kingpins are making and dealing have on society. At times you can mistake the show for a high school chemistry teacher just trying to practice some science (bitch) but he keeps getting interrupted by pesky drug lords and police.

My favorite show of all time is The Wire because it shows what impact the decisions of the drug lords and head honchos have on the users of the drugs, the low level dealers, the police chasing them and society as a whole. Its easier to be on Walter White's side after watching BB than it is to be on Avon Barksdale's or Stringer Bell's side after watching The Wire. Both sets of characters murdered innocent people but I think their evil is far more prevalent than WW's as you can see how lives they have destroyed outside of the obvious murders.

WW fought his conscience many times before he became fully Heisenberg but he never fought his conscience over what his drugs were doing to people. I find it hard to believe that in a rural town in New Mexico where meth is an epidemic, that WW never once came across what meth is doing to people in his town.

To me, you could easily switch the show to WW being a biology teacher who gets cancer and decides to grow weed to pay for his treatment because of this, he becomes evil trying to be top of the weed game. Weed has little or no negative impact on society while meth has a horrific impact on small town america and you see very little of this aspect on the show. If you didn't know any better, cooking meth is immoral as growing weed.

Do you think its a conscience decision to leave this aspect out of the show?


If you don't know how bad meth is, watch this Louie Theroux documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QppeXpxFyvo

ScumLord

Didn't we see Jesse's girlfriend overdose on it?

I doubt the kingpins do see the effects, they likely cocoon themselves from those stories. It's power and money to the big guys, it wouldn't matter if it was drugs, guns or toys, as long as it gives them the power to do what they want, it will attract psychos.

whatawaster

Jesse has been the one who has been exposed to the effects of Meth on ordinary people - Jane, Andrea/Brock, skank-woman/ATM man.

Walter has kept his hands relatively clean and his head firmly in the sand in that regard. I don't think the show has deliberately downplayed/underplayed those issues.

Dazzler0911

This scene alone would turn me off the stuff

jcsoulinger

I think generally its a fairly light hearted show, I know the themes of drug dealing and murder are serious, but the main concept is fairly out there, (ie teacher turned drug king pin). The majority of people realise this is not reality, so putting a lesson in there would be pointless and detract from the entertainment. The wire is based a lot more in reality so cannot be compared.

jcsoulinger

ScumLord wrote: »

Didn't we see Jesse's girlfriend overdose on it?

I doubt the kingpins do see the effects, they likely cocoon themselves from those stories. It's power and money to the big guys, it wouldn't matter if it was drugs, guns or toys, as long as it gives them the power to do what they want, it will attract psychos.

She oded on smack not meth.

Hazys

whatawaster wrote: »

Jesse has been the one who has been exposed to the effects of Meth on ordinary people - Jane, Andrea/Brock, skank-woman/ATM man.

Walter has kept his hands relatively clean and his head firmly in the sand in that regard. I don't think the show has deliberately downplayed/underplayed those issues.

Out of 5 seasons where the show is about cooking meth, you only see a handful of negative situations related to meth and even then its not completely obvious that WW's decisions even played a part in those situations.

I guess as a show BB is more of a story while The Wire is more of a social commentary, but i feel they are leaving out a big part of the story.

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

The show is not about realism.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well the whole point was walt wanted nothing to do with the street, it'd have just been shoehorned in and the show would have suffered

Penn

Walt purposefully distanced himself from the end users so as not see the effects of it. All he really cared about was making his money. We got glimpses of a few characters on it (Skank and Spooge, Wendy, the brothers who hadsome of Gus' meth that Jesse and Mike had to deal with), but anything further than that would have been putting it in for the sake of it. The Wire and Breaking Bad are very different shows. The Wire used the effects of drugs on society as storylines. Trying to do the same in Breaking Bad would have made it a completely different show, and it would have been worse because of it.

What the show never does however, is show meth in a positive light. Sure, Jesse, Badger, Skinny Pete and Combo did it from time to time, but they're always shown as being deadbeats with nothing better to do, and they definitely show signs of addiction to it.

Hazys

Penn wrote: »

Walt purposefully distanced himself from the end users so as not see the effects of it. All he really cared about was making his money. We got glimpses of a few characters on it (Skank and Spooge, Wendy, the brothers who hadsome of Gus' meth that Jesse and Mike had to deal with), but anything further than that would have been putting it in for the sake of it. The Wire and Breaking Bad are very different shows. The Wire used the effects of drugs on society as storylines. Trying to do the same in Breaking Bad would have made it a completely different show, and it would have been worse because of it.

What the show never does however, is show meth in a positive light. Sure, Jesse, Badger, Skinny Pete and Combo did it from time to time, but they're always shown as being deadbeats with nothing better to do, and they definitely show signs of addiction to it.

How Walt managed to distance himself from it, is a bit unrealistic. Meth is an epidemic in small towns especially in middle american, it would have been well publicized and prevalent in his community. If one of his former students was cooking meth, how many of his former students were using meth in the community?

My two issues are:

• Walt was never really conflicted about the morality of cooking meth
• The full impact of Walt being a drug lord outside the direct impact he had with people was never explored or shown, so his actions look less evil

I understand that the show is not the same as The Wire, where they had characters to represent each part of society, it wouldn't make sense to have a character like Bubbs the drug addict in BB as he never really interacted with the head honchos of the drug business. But it does seem that this aspect has been looked over by the show.

TeddyTedson

As Dazzler posted above the effects of meth are seen earlier on in the show.
I guess that since WW rose to the top of the industry he's so far away now from dealing with users. There are so many tiers that filter down to the addicts they're no longer in view. As he says himself, he's no in the meth business, he's in the empire business.

A Primal Nut

I agree that Breaking Bad doesn't need to do social commentary like the Wire for example.

Nevertheless the moral dilemma of someone Walt is close to being addicted to the meth Walt makes would have made for a great storyline. It could have been a family member or even a former student who was at the top of the class. They had 5 series, I think it''s a shame that it was never covered at all.

Walt or Jesse never once considered the morals of making meth. I find it strange considering the moral dilemmas they have over every other aspect of the drug business, yet producing meth for addicts and the lives it destroys is never an issue.

It was the first storyline that came to mind when I heard what Breaking Bad is about, but then again the writers have never done the obvious thing.

Wacker The Attacker

Quick question here.

Who thinks getting involved in the meth business is a good idea?

SimonQuinlank

Jesse was in rehab over it was he not?or was that the smack too?

And Skinny Pete and Crazy 8 used to go to those NA meetings where Jesse met Andrea,herself a former user.

And Walt sort of rationalized that at least the meth they were producing was purer and not as bad as the regular stuff on the street.

thisonetaken

Hazys wrote: »

Its easier to be on Walter White's side after watching BB than it is to be on Avon Barksdale's or Stringer Bell's side after watching The Wire. Both sets of characters murdered innocent people but I think their evil is far more prevalent than WW's as you can see how lives they have destroyed outside of the obvious murders.

What innocent people did Walt murder? As far as I recall everyone he murdered was an evil scumbag.

A Primal Nut

thisonetaken wrote: »

What innocent people did Walt murder? As far as I recall everyone he murdered was an evil scumbag.

What about the 10 people he murdered at the end of season 5 part 1. Yes they were caught up on the trade but you can't say they were all evil scumbags.

He was also indifferent to the murder of the boy after the train robbery.

SimonQuinlank

thisonetaken wrote: »

What innocent people did Walt murder? As far as I recall everyone he murdered was an evil scumbag.

He got Jesse to kill Gale,he definitely wasn't an evil scumbag.

Hazys

thisonetaken wrote: »

What innocent people did Walt murder? As far as I recall everyone he murdered was an evil scumbag.

He tried to kill Brock also.

I think that's besides the point i was making.

Smartguy

Jane??

thisonetaken

A Primal Nut wrote: »

What about the 10 people he murdered at the end of season 5 part 1. Yes they were caught up on the trade but you can't say they were all evil scumbags.

He was also indifferent to the murder of the boy after the train robbery.

From what we know of the 10 people we can assume they were scumbags who were a drain on society.

He had no part in the murder of the boy at the train robbery, why would he care about it, a lot of bad things happen in the world, Walt recognises that and accepts it.

thisonetaken

SimonQuinlank wrote: »

He got Jesse to kill Gale,he definitely wasn't an evil scumbag.

Gale made meth which a lot of people would say makes him an evil scumbag (not me though). Also Walt didn't murder Gale. Anyway you can't blame Walt for wanting Gale dead since it was either Gale or Walt who was going to be murdered.

thisonetaken

Smartguy wrote: »

Jane??

He didn't murder Jane, she died from a self inflicted overdose. If he had of saved her she would of turned Jesse into a full blown heroin addict and destroyed his life, so in a way Walt saved the life of Jesse by not intervening.

thisonetaken

Hazys wrote: »

He tried to kill Brock also.

I think that's besides the point i was making.

no he didn't try to kill Brock, he knew exactly how much of the poison to give him so that he wouldn't die or have any lasting ill effects

Penn

thisonetaken wrote: »

From what we know of the 10 people we can assume they were scumbags who were a drain on society.

That's not true. One of them was simply a lawyer who helped funnel the money. And one was the manager of the laundry place above the superlab. He was being paid off to help be a cover, but there's no evidence he was involved in anything that could label him a scumbag. In fact, if he'd had some sort of criminal record or anything, he wouldn't have been a good cover to act as manager of the laundry, so he must have been legit. All he was being paid by Gus to do was manage the laundry and ignore the meth side of things. Walt probably would have seen him most days he was passing through the laundry to go to/from the lab.

D-FENS

Penn wrote: »

That's not true. One of them was simply a lawyer who helped funnel the money. And one was the manager of the laundry place above the superlab. He was being paid off to help be a cover, but there's no evidence he was involved in anything that could label him a scumbag. In fact, if he'd had some sort of criminal record or anything, he wouldn't have been a good cover to act as manager of the laundry, so he must have been legit. All he was being paid by Gus to do was manage the laundry and ignore the meth side of things. Walt probably would have seen him most days he was passing through the laundry to go to/from the lab.

Do you mean Mike’s lawyer, who was putting his granddaughter’s money in the safety deposit boxes? He wasn’t killed, he was arrested by Gomez.

Chet T16

D-FENS wrote: »

Do you mean Mike’s lawyer, who was putting his granddaughter’s money in the safety deposit boxes? He wasn’t killed, he was arrested by Gomez.

And sent to prison...

D-FENS

Chet T16 wrote: »

And sent to prison...

Yep, my bad, sorry.
Must have somehow missed his death is that charming Monkeys montage

Cienciano

The scene of Jessie in the mess of a house with the 2 meth heads trying to break into the ATM was brilliant. This disgrace of a house that looked like a crack den, but the 2 people who lived there had a little boy that had to get up himself, get his breakfast and sit down and watch TV in the middle of all this mess. With 2 parents that hardly knew he existed. Heartbreaking stuff. Would have been good to see a few more scenes like this, but as Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother said above, the show isn't about realism. That's why it'll never be as good as The Wire imho.

SUNDERLANDER!

If the show were to focus on the reality of meth.it would be 60 minutes of diarrhea and sex crime.

Penn

D-FENS wrote: »

Yep, my bad, sorry.
Must have somehow missed his death is that charming Monkeys montage

First one killed (the guy on the phone). And the manager of the laundry (the one who was going to confess everything to Hank and Gomez) was the guy set on fire in his cell.

Penn

SUNDERLANDER! wrote: »

If the show were to focus on the reality of meth.it would be 60 minutes of diarrhea and sex crime.

Or as it's more commonly known, a double bill of How I Met Your Mother

duploelabs

Tucker!!! Tucker!!!!! that ring any bells??

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

Cienciano wrote: »

Would have been good to see a few more scenes like this, but as Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother said above, the show isn't about realism. That's why it'll never be as good as The Wire imho.

I disagree with the theory that the more realistic a film, TV show etc is, the better it is. "Realism" in art is a construction; and anyway, the more "real" something like this is, the less scope there is to bring a fresh perspective to it (and even a new way of looking at the drug problem, if you really want to do that).

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

wire fans always talk about how realistic it, as if season 3 and 5 just didn't happen

Quixoticelixer

Breaking Bad and The Wire; apples and oranges. Breaking Bad is the story of Walter White, not a social study/commentary.

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

Yes, I would't say The Wire is better than Breaking Bad because it is more realistic. I'm a person who thinks Joe Dante's Small Soldiers has more to say about war than Steven Spielberg's Saving Private Ryan, so whadda I know?

expectationlost

which film or tv show has shown the effects of drugs,that's not a doc

duploelabs

Requiem for a dream or basketball diaries for starters

bidiots

expectationlost wrote: »

which film or tv show has shown the effects of drugs,that's not a doc

Trainspotting:)

Big Game

Cienciano wrote: »

The scene of Jessie in the mess of a house with the 2 meth heads trying to break into the ATM was brilliant. This disgrace of a house that looked like a crack den, but the 2 people who lived there had a little boy that had to get up himself, get his breakfast and sit down and watch TV in the middle of all this mess. With 2 parents that hardly knew he existed. Heartbreaking stuff. Would have been good to see a few more scenes like this, but as Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother said above, the show isn't about realism. That's why it'll never be as good as The Wire imho.

Been plenty of other scenes depicting the down side of using, that hooker Wendy had scenes in the first 3 seasons including a montage of her with multiple johns for example. Plus the madhouse that Jesse's place turned into in season 4 across a number of episodes , the 'Tucker' scene etc.

And season 5 of the wire was pure fantasy stuff, big let down compared to the first 4.