Clocked BMW 320d Beware!

MichaelOBrien

I sold this car one month ago with 220,000 miles on it and now it has 126,000 miles on it. donedeal ad number 5675843

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2005-bmw-320d-full-service-history/5675843#

Supergurrier

Nice link

Esel

It would be interesting to know the odometer history on the other four cars too...

http://cars.donedeal.ie/find/all/for-sale/Ireland/?uid=3897

delly

Strange that that the ad includes a pic of the NCT sheet which will have the mileage on it when tested from the end of May. Hard to see how he could include this if it is clocked along with providing a FSH, unless it is fabricated.

MichaelOBrien

there was a full bmw service history up to 150,000 miles with the car when i sold it and the nct cert was with it also , I dont remember seeing the mileage reading on the nct cert , is it possible that it wasn't on the cert ? there were also loads of receipts of recent work done and receipts of all service parts since 150,000 miles .
The car was well looked after and driving perfect but taking 100,000 miles off the clock is really taking the piss .

biko

That's pretty serious allegations there OP. Do you have any proof?
A link to an old advert with images of the correct mileage on it? Did you enter car into the National Mileage Register before you sold it?

As delly said, if it NCTd while you had it then your mileage should be on the sheet in the pic in the advert so anyone looking would spot it.

Is it possible that when you sold it one moth ago it was 220K miles and now it's 226K miles, just a typo on the sellers advert? Can a person drive 6K in one month?

Esel

biko wrote: »

As derry said, if it NCTd while you had it then your mileage should be on the sheet in the pic in the advert so anyone looking would spot it.

I'm sure delly won't be happy to be confused with derry.

I know I wouldn't - I had derry on my Ignore List for years. Took him off recently for his Flightfest holographic planes mini-nuke plot thread on the 9/11 sub-forum of the CT forum.

biko

Ops, sorry delly I fixed my post.

MichaelOBrien

biko wrote: »

That's pretty serious allegations there OP. Do you have any proof?
A link to an old advert with images of the correct mileage on it? Did you enter car into the National Mileage Register before you sold it?

As derry said, if it NCTd while you had it then your mileage should be on the sheet in the pic in the advert so anyone looking would spot it.

Is it possible that when you sold it one moth ago it was 220K miles and now it's 226K miles, just a typo on the sellers advert? Can a person drive 6K in one month?

Do I have any proof ? No I Don't , I just logged in to donedeal but my ad is gone,
Do you really think that it was a typo ???? If you read newspapers you might find that up to 20% of second hand cars are clocked.
As for you questioning if what I say is true or not, Its entirely up to yourself whether you believe the "serious allegations" or not and if you decide to buy the car , well don't say that you weren't warned

MichaelOBrien

just check out one of the other cars this guy has for sale "2004 530d, 2.0d logbook, high spec". he really seems like an honest kind of a guy
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2004-530d-2-0d-logbook-high-spec/5722700

Wheres My ForkandKnife

It's strange that the car is advertised with a fsh. Was the history all in the one book? I imagine it is and as he has made it so prominent by showing the first page of the service book and mentioning it in the ad anyone looking at it would check. It would be fairly difficult to make stamps disappear.

I suppose it's equally as likely that a "typo" is used to draw people in as it would be difficult to even get people to view the car with 220k on it.

Unless someone actually views the car who knows what is going on here but I think if I check this thread this evening the link will come up as car sold or ad is gone.

Fair play to you for posting OP. Apart from everything else it looks a clean car, especially when you consider the mileage.

pippip

MichaelOBrien wrote: »

just check out one of the other cars this guy has for sale "2004 530d, 2.0d logbook, high spec". he really seems like an honest kind of a guy
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2004-530d-2-0d-logbook-high-spec/5722700

On cartel, the reg comes up as a BMW 530 D E60 SE with a engine capacity of 1995cc.

glic71rods46t0

OP
The car is a 2005 which should have a km odometer. Is it possible that you had 220,000 kms on the car and now the new seller converted it (badly) to miles? I know the correct conversion would be circa 136,000 miles but the seller could have made a genuine mistake in the conversion.

Just a possibility!

visual

As far as I know the NCT record the mileage when presented for test, its not validated or cross reference to past tests. So in theory a car could have decreasing mileage at every test.

If a cartell check is done I would expect to see mileage discrepancies if its been clocked.

And no I don't accept the mileage to kilometres errors as valid. Thars a clockers wet dream.

Its way way too easy with digitally recorded miles to set it to anything you want if you have a laptop with the right software.

I woukd suspect the claim 1 in 5 cars are clocked is underestimated that the real problem is much higher due to the lack of detection and enforcement.

Wheres My ForkandKnife

visual wrote: »

As far as I know the NCT record the mileage when presented for test, its not validated or cross reference to past tests. So in theory a car could have decreasing mileage at every test.

If a cartell check is done I would expect to see mileage discrepancies if its been clocked.

And no I don't accept the mileage to kilometres errors as valid. Thars a clockers wet dream.

Its way way too easy with digitally recorded miles to set it to anything you want if you have a laptop with the right software.

I woukd suspect the claim 1 in 5 cars are clocked is underestimated that the real problem is much higher due to the lack of detection and enforcement.

Based on what? I suspect that 17.34% of cars are clocked based on a figure I plucked out of the air:pac:

I will agree that it is far too easy to clock a car and I'm sure manufacturers could stop it if they had a mind to.

As for buying a second hand car while I don't think that every seller is dishonest I would carry out every other check on the car first and then see if it tallies with the odometer.

In the case of the OP's car it has a full bmw service history up to 150km which means there is at least one stamp in the book after 120km and probably more.

I can't see how the seller can make these stamps disappear.

Chippy01

MichaelOBrien wrote: »

I sold this car one month ago with 220,000 miles on it and now it has 126,000 miles on it. donedeal ad number 5675843

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2005-bmw-320d-full-service-history/5675843#[/QUOTE]



220,000 kms is 136,000 miles. Could it be just a typo???

Lex Luthor

I just checked my latest NCT cert and it has the odometer reading recorded
As your car is a UK import, you are obviously sure that the odometer reads in miles and not km.
Is the person selling the car now the person you sold it to?

Only one way to find out..call them and ask the mileage over the phone

dantastic

Idunno...

I've never seen a BWM 203f with a 0.4l engine advertised.

The mileage is considered one of the most important pieces of information when it comes to selling a car. I find it very difficult to believe all these sellers making *genuine mistakes*.

visual

Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »

Based on what? I suspect that 17.34% of cars are clocked based on a figure I plucked out of the air:pac:

I will agree that it is far too easy to clock a car and I'm sure manufacturers could stop it if they had a mind to.

As for buying a second hand car while I don't think that every seller is dishonest I would carry out every other check on the car first and then see if it tallies with the odometer.

In the case of the OP's car it has a full bmw service history up to 150km which means there is at least one stamp in the book after 120km and probably more.

I can't see how the seller can make these stamps disappear.

Real world most used cars in dealers that dont sell new cars are bought at auctioned. There is plenty of guys with laptop in hand at each of these auctions both here and in UK.

There is also a good on line market for service books for any car. So you can put in anything you want. But as its common for most cars only to have service history for first few years once warranty is out and its changed hands car serviced in indy garage the stamps aren't updated as most just get receipt for work done.

Now if your a dealer and a beautiful high mileage car sells cheap with 200k plus on clock you known it wont sell in a month of sundays.
Mileage adjusted will have punters beating a path to the car. Thats a big motivation and because car is going through so many middle men its be very difficult to proof who clocked the car and when.

Thats why all these car check companies are doing so well and they are saying from their information that the numbers are in access of 20%. I believe its even higher as irish cars don't have as good a recorded service history as else where.

Plus the authorities here don't or rarely follow up with clocked cars.

Anan1

dantastic wrote: »

I find it very difficult to believe all these sellers making *genuine mistakes*.

Not all, some.

Tea 1000

Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »

Based on what? I suspect that 17.34% of cars are clocked based on a figure I plucked out of the air:pac:

I will agree that it is far too easy to clock a car and I'm sure manufacturers could stop it if they had a mind to.

As for buying a second hand car while I don't think that every seller is dishonest I would carry out every other check on the car first and then see if it tallies with the odometer.

In the case of the OP's car it has a full bmw service history up to 150km which means there is at least one stamp in the book after 120km and probably more.

I can't see how the seller can make these stamps disappear.

I'd be curious about this too. Also the NCT certs. You could check those. And the Dealer stamps from the last service at 120k or whatever would have been a number of years ago.
If he falsified a whole new book out of it then he'd need a stamp himself, but all the services would be in the same handwriting with the same stamp. Typically there is two or three types of stamps used in genuine ones where the dealer either changed stamps over the years or where they used a different dealer.
Also it'd be hard enough to try and falsify the NCT document and have the tear-out still there.
But while most cars are easy to clock, some have kind of defence mechanisms built in. Like the E39 had a decimal point appear in the odo if the clock was changed and now didn't tally with the info stored in other places like the headlight module.

Wheres My ForkandKnife

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I'd be curious about this too. Also the NCT certs. You could check those. And the Dealer stamps from the last service at 120k or whatever would have been a number of years ago.
If he falsified a whole new book out of it then he'd need a stamp himself, but all the services would be in the same handwriting with the same stamp. Typically there is two or three types of stamps used in genuine ones where the dealer either changed stamps over the years or where they used a different dealer.
Also it'd be hard enough to try and falsify the NCT document and have the tear-out still there.
But while most cars are easy to clock, some have kind of defence mechanisms built in. Like the E39 had a decimal point appear in the odo if the clock was changed and now didn't tally with the info stored in other places like the headlight module.

I accept this but people who clock cars are generally not criminal geniuses or master forgers. When a car is clocked the service history usually gets "lost".

The car which the OP sold had 220km and bmw s/h to 150km. I doubt the current seller has maunfactured a whole new service history. I'm not saying its not possible, just that its unlikely.

The fact that the ad is so upfront with nct and service history would make me think that just maybe an error (accidently or not) but unless someone actually sees the car with 126km on it then nobody knows what is going on.

bmstuff

It is a lot more difficult to change the mileage on the cluster of those cars, I dont know about this particular car, but e60, e90 etc is lot more involved that previous cars.
You need some serious equipment, not just a 300 eeprom flasher from china and a blank chip.
Some programs can do it but they are very pricey.

MichaelOBrien

tbkarv3xqhgy0w wrote: »

OP
The car is a 2005 which should have a km odometer. Is it possible that you had 220,000 kms on the car and now the new seller converted it (badly) to miles? I know the correct conversion would be circa 136,000 miles but the seller could have made a genuine mistake in the conversion.

Just a possibility!

I imported the car from the uk in March 2010 and it had 150,000 MILES on it and I put 20,000 MILES per year on it for 3.5 years which brought it up to circa 220,000 MILES when i sold it 3 weeks ago , there are no mistakes

WIZE

Call the seller and ask him. Im too Lazy:pac:

mgbgt1978

delly wrote: »

Strange that that the ad includes a pic of the NCT sheet which will have the mileage on it when tested from the end of May. Hard to see how he could include this if it is clocked along with providing a FSH, unless it is fabricated.

Bet you anything the NCT Report sheet will be 'missing' when somebody goes to view the car.

MichaelOBrien

On another note , I bought a car a few weeks ago and the first 3 cars that I was looking at showed up a mileage discrepancy on cartell.ie . I have heard of people ringing the dealer to confirm if the service report is genuine or not , does anyone here have experience of that ? and did the dealer mind giving up their time ?

Tea 1000

MichaelOBrien wrote: »

On another note , I bought a car a few weeks ago and the first 3 cars that I was looking at showed up a mileage discrepancy on cartell.ie . I have heard of people ringing the dealer to confirm if the service report is genuine or not , does anyone here have experience of that ? and did the dealer mind giving up their time ?

I have seen mileage discrepancy's come up on cars in the past that I knew from when they were brand new so I don't know where the discrepancy came from, but more often than not they seem to be on the ball.
I've called dealers plenty of times, they're all happy enough to oblige once they find out that you're polite enough!

bazz26

On the E90 the mileage is recorded in 3 different places:- the key chip, the odometer and the ECU.

Esel

Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »

I accept this but people who clock cars are generally not criminal geniuses or master forgers. When a car is clocked the service history usually gets "lost".

The car which the OP sold had 220km and bmw s/h to 150km. I doubt the current seller has maunfactured a whole new service history. I'm not saying its not possible, just that its unlikely.

The fact that the ad is so upfront with nct and service history would make me think that just maybe an error (accidently or not) but unless someone actually sees the car with 126km on it then nobody knows what is going on.

Ah here, will ya feckin' stop with the 220km, 150km and 126km - especially in this thread where some posts have been about whether the odometer reading was given in miles or kilometres (km.....).

Let's keep it to 220k miles or 220k kms or even better 220,000 miles etc.

Glad to get that of my chest. :pac:

Edit: Interesting that someone said 1 in 5 cars here are clocked, and this dealer is selling 5 cars...

colm_mcm

MichaelOBrien wrote: »

just check out one of the other cars this guy has for sale "2004 530d, 2.0d logbook, high spec". he really seems like an honest kind of a guy
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2004-530d-2-0d-logbook-high-spec/5722700

Doesn't a garage gave to stamp that and make a declaration when the change is submitted?
They should throw the book at any garage that assists false declarations.

Then again, who's to say they don't forge the garage stamp.

thecomedian

Esel wrote: »

It would be interesting to know the odometer history on the other four cars too...

http://cars.donedeal.ie/find/all/for-sale/Ireland/?uid=3897

Do they all seem very cheap? Or is it just me. The A4 2.0t Quattro at that price!!

pippip

thecomedian wrote: »

Do they all seem very cheap? Or is it just me. The A4 2.0t Quattro at that price!!

its an 8yr old car with large...ish petrol engine and 117miles. I would say that price is about right. High mileage on a petrol puts alot of people off. Plus that interior cloth looks awful and cheap.

andrew1300r

And the chocolate gearbox just waiting to give its new owner a 3k rebuild bill

andrew1300r

pippip wrote: »

its an 8yr old car with large...ish petrol engine and 117miles. I would say that price is about right. High mileage on a petrol puts alot of people off. Plus that interior cloth looks awful and cheap.

And the chocolate gearbox just waiting to give its new owner a 3k rebuild bill