Fairest way to split rent.

Potatoeman

Im sharing with a friend of mine for a few years and we were paying 400 each for double rooms in a three bed house with me paying an extea 100 for the box room as a computer room.
He recently moved in his girlfriend for two weeks but she is staying now and Im trying to figure out the fairest way to split things. Neither of them are working so I rarely get the place to myself. My flat mate wants to keep doing it by the rooms and split the bills three ways. This seems to me rather expensive for sharing with two other people. What would be the fairest way to split things?

djimi

Seeing as how it is more than the rooms that are now being shared between three, and there are more people using the kitchen, living room, bathroom etc, I dont see any reason why he thinks each person should not be paying a third each.

Potatoeman

djimi wrote: »

Seeing as how it is more than the rooms that are now being shared between three, and there are more people using the kitchen, living room, bathroom etc, I dont see any reason why he thinks each person should not be paying a third each.

I do think I should pay something more for the boxroom though. Im uncertain of how to slit it.

irritablebaz

that's an awkward one, i can see his side as he is not taking any extra space just having his girl move in. that said she will be using the rest of the house so should be paying something towards rent and not just the bills.

martineatworld

Your housemate is dreaming if he thinks the rent should stay as is. The only way to decide on it is for ye to argue it out, we can't see the house and room sizes so all it would be is guesses on our behalf. I wouldn't go as far as splitting it three ways seeing as they share a room. As it's 900pm, if you were paying 360-380ish, somewhere around that figure is what I'd consider fair. That's pure guesswork on my behalf though.

joeguevara

How about you pay €400 for your room, they pay €450 for theirs and you pay €50 for the box room and bills are split three ways? Seems reasonable to me.

D3PO

irritablebaz wrote: »

that's an awkward one, i can see his side as he is not taking any extra space just having his girl move in. that said she will be using the rest of the house so should be paying something towards rent and not just the bills.

id agree with this. A three way split isn't what id consider fair but there should be some payment

currently your paying 500 he's paying 400.

I think the 100 your paying for the box room should be flipped around.

So they pay 500 you pay 400 and you get to keep the box room. Bills to then be split 3 ways.

Expecting a 300-300-300 split is taking the piss IMO but so is him expecting it to remain the way it is currently.

Koptain Liverpool

I agree that you can't expect the rent split three ways as they are sharing a room.
I also think that you should pay 450 and they should pay 450 between them. Remember you have the use of two rooms and they have one between them. Your bills will obviously be cheaper also.

Potatoeman

Part of the problem is that they are not working and will be in the house more. Im at work five days and out training two nights too. I rarly get the place to myself now and it seems financially Im paying far too much at the moment for sharing with two others. Im wonder if any others have had similar issues.

Potatoeman

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

I agree that you can't expect the rent split three ways as they are sharing a room.
I also think that you should pay 450 and they should pay 450 between them. Remember you have the use of two rooms and they have one between them. Your bills will obviously be cheaper also.

The double rooms are the same size and the boxroom would barly fit a single bed. I am paying 100 for the box room but there seems very little incentive for me having an extra person in the house.

SUNDERLANDER!

Potatoeman wrote: »

The double rooms are the same size and the boxroom would barly fit a single bed. I am paying 100 for the box room but there seems very little incentive for me having an extra person in the house.

Who has control of the house,you or the couple,are you just living in your bed room and box room?

Or do you use the sitting room,after work will come home and watch TV with your room mate and his GF?

MurdyWurdy

When my bf moved in with me (a long time ago now!) we took €100 off my room mates rent and split the bills three ways. She was delighted with the rent reduction and that her bills were cheaper but and the two of us were still paying less rent then we were. We were all happy with the arrangement and it seems the fairest way to do it to me.

djimi

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

I agree that you can't expect the rent split three ways as they are sharing a room.
I also think that you should pay 450 and they should pay 450 between them. Remember you have the use of two rooms and they have one between them. Your bills will obviously be cheaper also.

They are sharing a room, but as far as the rest of the house goes they are still two people. That means another person using the kitchen, the bathroom, the shower, the living room etc. They are also a couple, and too often it cam become a case of "me vs them" when it comes to things like getting some private use of the living room, deciding what to watch on TV etc.

I had forgotten about the box room when I made my original suggestion. I would be inclined to leave that seperate and as is (continue to pay €100 for exclusive use of it), and split the remaining rent three ways. Certainly no less than 40/60.

If they pair of them are going to be in the house all of the time you need to consider the bills also. They are going to be using more of the electricity for example, and the bills will be higher because they are in the house all day compared to if it was 2/3 people working 9-5, so is it fair that it gets worked out with an even split?

Potatoeman

SUNDERLANDER! wrote: »

Who has control of the house,you or the couple,are you just living in your bed room and box room?

Or do you use the sitting room,after work will come home and watch TV with your room mate and his GF?

Both our names are on are lease but I paid the deposit and the bills are in my name.
I use the box room as a compter room so I do be in there abit and I dont watch too much TV. They do their own thing too. Though one of them is usually in the house. My housemate does seem to be out of the house more when his gf is there and frequently one will be in their room when the other is downstairs.

Michael D Not Higgins

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

Your bills will obviously be cheaper also.

Not necessarily, he says they're both not working. People hanging around the house all day tend to use more electricity and heating.

Potatoeman

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Not necessarily, he says they're both not working. People hanging around the house all day tend to use more electricity and heating.

The bills are 170 a month. So they went from 85 to 56 each. Not a huge difference.

zarquon

Agree on a value for the box room, €100 per month is far to low imo. If you all agree it is worth 100 p/m then the remain rent is 800 p/m which should be split 3 ways therefore they pay 533.34 and you pay 266.66 for the double room meaning you pay a total of 366.66

2 x double rooms and 1 x single room has a max capacity of 5 people. Therefore 900/5 = €180 per bed space p/m therefore €180 p/m is a fairer valuation of the box room. If you were to value the box room at 180 then the remaining 720 should be split 3 ways meaning you pay €240 for the double room. With the box room included your total would be €420.

€420 for you for the 2 rooms and 480 for them is the fairest way to split things up considering it's a 3 ways house share, not just the rooms.

Clearlier

First off, don't forget about the value of friendship. Is the argument/discussion/disagreement worth the cost of your friendship? Only you can answer that but keep it in mind whatever you decide to do.

It does seem to me like you have been getting a good deal on the boxroom, part of that's an opportunity thing in that I'm guessing your friend didn't value the loss of that room very highly. One way of valuing the room would be to imagine that somebody offered to come live in that room. What rent would you want to charge them? It's not exactly the same because another person would have the use of the house but it might give you a better idea as to a reasonable amount for you to pay for the room.

My instinct on the numbers is that you're not doing too badly @ €500 but €450 wouldn't be out of order. Given that a friendship is involved it may be worth considering the relative impact that €50 might have on you both. Given that he has been paying €400 I imagine that it doesn't have much of an impact but maybe he couldn't afford it, got into debt and that's part of the reason his girlfriend has moved in. Presumably you also have slightly less general cleaning to do too which might be a small benefit?

Potatoeman

Clearlier wrote: »

First off, don't forget about the value of friendship. Is the argument/discussion/disagreement worth the cost of your friendship? Only you can answer that but keep it in mind whatever you decide to do.

It does seem to me like you have been getting a good deal on the boxroom, part of that's an opportunity thing in that I'm guessing your friend didn't value the loss of that room very highly. One way of valuing the room would be to imagine that somebody offered to come live in that room. What rent would you want to charge them? It's not exactly the same because another person would have the use of the house but it might give you a better idea as to a reasonable amount for you to pay for the room.

My instinct on the numbers is that you're not doing too badly @ €500 but €450 wouldn't be out of order. Given that a friendship is involved it may be worth considering the relative impact that €50 might have on you both. Given that he has been paying €400 I imagine that it doesn't have much of an impact but maybe he couldn't afford it, got into debt and that's part of the reason his girlfriend has moved in. Presumably you also have slightly less general cleaning to do too which might be a small benefit?

When we moved in I said I would pay the extra 100 the room so we would not have to get someone else to move in and all the baggage that comes with that. Im not really happy about his gf moving in as even though he stays up late mid week he keeps it down. His gf is loud so I have to discuss this with him too. I work very early every second week so someone running up and down the stairs and banging doors at 2 or 3 in the morning is not acceptable. This is something we also need to work out. I wanted to know what other people
thought was fair before we had that talk. His gf is quite messy and forgetful too. Half doing something and walking away.

Mrs OBumble

Good luck with the flat hunting that I forsee in your future ....

HeidiHeidi

Potatoeman wrote: »

When we moved in I said I would pay the extra 100 the room so we would not have to get someone else to move in and all the baggage that comes with that. Im not really happy about his gf moving in as even though he stays up late mid week he keeps it down. His gf is loud so I have to discuss this with him too. I work very early every second week so someone running up and down the stairs and banging doors at 2 or 3 in the morning is not acceptable. This is something we also need to work out. I wanted to know what other people
thought was fair before we had that talk. His gf is quite messy and forgetful too. Half doing something and walking away.

You sound like a man in need of a place of his own......

foggy_lad

You should change all the bills from your name now and start looking for a place to live because you don't like the girlfriend and that is unlikely to change and I can see the spare room being an issue for her when she gets moved in fully. It may become a situation of you and them fighting for supremacy in the same house and two trumps you on your own.

SUNDERLANDER!

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

You sound like a man in need of a place of his own......

Agree'd i couldnt share a house either unless its with my kid.

But having to deal with other people issues and conduct...no thanks,id have booted them both out by now,even thought they arnt being that bad.

Clearlier

Potatoeman wrote: »

When we moved in I said I would pay the extra 100 the room so we would not have to get someone else to move in and all the baggage that comes with that. Im not really happy about his gf moving in as even though he stays up late mid week he keeps it down. His gf is loud so I have to discuss this with him too. I work very early every second week so someone running up and down the stairs and banging doors at 2 or 3 in the morning is not acceptable. This is something we also need to work out. I wanted to know what other people
thought was fair before we had that talk. His gf is quite messy and forgetful too. Half doing something and walking away.

It might be worth noting that he was part subsidising the cost of not having anybody else in. In respect of all the other issues you have they all seem perfectly reasonable complaints. As others have since said it doesn't really sound like the rent (although an issue) is the main issue here. You'll need to either sit down and work them all out and/or plan to move on whenever your lease is up.

Good luck!

Potatoeman

Well I am looking at buying at the moment but its a long road. My main issue would be noise at night and how we split rent. The rent is not a huge issue just something I feel is not split fairly.
There seems to be good value in certain areas of Dublin where it is a good chunk cheaper to buy than to rent.

housetypeb

Divide the cost of the two rooms by three,and keep paying 100 for the box room.

Potatoeman

foggy_lad wrote: »

You should change all the bills from your name now and start looking for a place to live because you don't like the girlfriend and that is unlikely to change and I can see the spare room being an issue for her when she gets moved in fully. It may become a situation of you and them fighting for supremacy in the same house and two trumps you on your own.

I dont dislike her. I did pay the deposit though and its my and my flatmates name on the lease.

foggy_lad

Potatoeman wrote: »

I dont dislike her. I did pay the deposit though and its my and my flatmates name on the lease.

Then you can block her staying there at any time that it doesn't suit you but if her name goes on the lease there is nothing you can do.

I am pie

Living with a couple is a nightmare. You will fall out with him, her or both of them.

I would find a new flat.

If you're staying, take the 100 off the top for the box room, split the 800 250+250+300 and then if you want rent the box room thats an extra 100 for you. Ends up 500/400. They are not renting a room, they are sharing a house, if they want to rent a room let them go look for a bedsit.

Gally05

would you not continue to pay 100 for the box room as you were and then split every thing else 3 ways ? ie the remaining 800 and the household bills ?

Potatoeman

Potatoeman wrote: »

He recently moved in his girlfriend for two weeks but she is staying now ... My flat mate wants to keep doing it by the rooms and split the bills three ways.

I don't like the sound of that ... the old "ah it's just for a couple of weeks, no longer, I swear" trick.

If it's not too late you should agree the finances side of things before you agree to her moving in permanently and his assumption is not fair. Did you even get the option to discuss her moving in?

Potatoeman wrote: »

This seems to me rather expensive for sharing with two other people.

I think the "box bedroom" is a bit of a red-herring here.

In an area where renting a 3 bedroom house is €900 per month, €500 for a house share with two others does seem expensive.

It's difficult to say without knowing exactly where you are, but if that's the going rate for a 3-bedroom house, you might be just as well off in a 1 bedroom flat/apartment. I would seriously consider it at this stage, both for your lifestyle in general and as a way out of this situation.

Potatoeman wrote: »

one of them is usually in the house. My housemate does seem to be out of the house more when his gf is there and frequently one will be in their room when the other is downstairs.

Potatoeman wrote: »

the boxroom would barly fit a single bed. I am paying 100 for the box room but there seems very little incentive for me having an extra person in the house.

Potatoeman wrote: »

When we moved in I said I would pay the extra 100 the room so we would not have to get someone else to move in and all the baggage that comes with that

Potatoeman wrote: »

I rarly get the place to myself now and it seems financially Im paying far too much at the moment for sharing with two others.

You need to think very carefully about the change in dynamic as well as the financial aspects. So far this smacks of rail-roading and one side suiting themselves.

mad turnip

look at it this way, you see those advertisements on daft.ie that say no couples? Thats there for a reason it VERY rarly works out.

PhoenixParker

There used to be a formula for this floating around that worked quite well.

It was something like you measure all the areas that everyone shares (kitchen, bathroom, hallways, sitting room). Then you measure all the areas you have for your exclusive use (in your case bedroom + boxroom, in their case : half a bedroom each). Then everyones rent is a portion based on what they have access to. It was something like

Shared areas - 500sqft
bedroom 1 - 120sqft
bedroom 2 - 120sqft
bedroom 3 - 50sqft

P1 - (you) 670
P2 560
P3 560
Total - 1790

You - (670/1790) * E900 - E337
Him and Her - (560/1790) *E900 - E281 each

Or if measuring the house is a bit over involved, maybe try this: http://splitwise.com/calculators/rent

Potatoeman

foggy_lad wrote: »

Then you can block her staying there at any time that it doesn't suit you but if her name goes on the lease there is nothing you can do.

I dont want to be nasty about it. Hes still my friend I just want a fair deal and less noise at night which is not too much to ask for. We got a pretty good deal with the house so I would not be to happy being forced out.

Potatoeman

PhoenixParker wrote: »

There used to be a formula for this floating around that worked quite well.

It was something like you measure all the areas that everyone shares (kitchen, bathroom, hallways, sitting room). Then you measure all the areas you have for your exclusive use (in your case bedroom + boxroom, in their case : half a bedroom each). Then everyones rent is a portion based on what they have access to. It was something like

Shared areas - 500sqft
bedroom 1 - 120sqft
bedroom 2 - 120sqft
bedroom 3 - 50sqft

P1 - (you) 670
P2 560
P3 560
Total - 1790

You - (670/1790) * E900 - E337
Him and Her - (560/1790) *E900 - E281 each

Or if measuring the house is a bit over involved, maybe try this: http://splitwise.com/calculators/rent

I had a quick look at that. It does not factor in that there is one person in two rooms. Ill chat with them tonight and hammer something out.

subway

from experience, move out now while you're all still mates.

petecork

Potatoeman wrote: »

I had a quick look at that. It does not factor in that there is one person in two rooms. Ill chat with them tonight and hammer something out.

i think it does,

if it was 2 people in 2 rooms your total would be 500+500+120+50 but instead you are just paying for 1 persons use of the shared areas (500+120+50)

Potatoeman

petecork wrote: »

i think it does,

if it was 2 people in 2 rooms your total would be 500+500+120+50 but instead you are just paying for 1 persons use of the shared areas (500+120+50)

I mean the site. There is an option for people sharing a room but no option for one person with two rooms.

petecork

Potatoeman wrote: »

I mean the site. There is an option for people sharing a room but no option for one person with two rooms.

sorry i misunderstood

mathepac

I think the notion of reversing the rent allocation is very fair, you pay 4/9 ths including the box-room, they pay 5/9 ths.

On the utilities though, if they are in the house most of the day every day, with winter coming in I think they need to pick up 75-80% of the utilities (electricity, heating, broadband, TV licence, etc.) as they will be making greater use of them than you.

I don't know the food arrangements, but I suggest you might consider flying solo on that front.

PhoenixParker

Potatoeman wrote: »

I mean the site. There is an option for people sharing a room but no option for one person with two rooms.

Treat it as a two bed house, with your bedroom as a very generously sized room with a large walk in closet.

(Effectively that's what the box room is kinda doing for you)

sunnysoutheast

subway wrote: »

from experience, move out now while you're all still mates.

Either this, or put your foot down and say that if he wants to share with his girlfriend they can get their own place and you get someone else in.

When a couple is involved they tend to commandeer the common areas and kitchen, and it won't be long before the "can you stay out until late on Friday, we're having a night in" and "can you wash up we need that pan" etc. starts.