RYR LPL-DUB Go Around in Progress

dm09

Ryanair on second approach to DUB after first approach aborted, anyone listening to tower? Cross Winds?

airman737

dm09 wrote: »

Ryanair on second approach to DUB after first approach aborted, anyone listening to tower? Cross Winds?

If it is weatrher related it must be fog, looking at the latest metar. But it could be traffic still on the runway!

dm09

airman737 wrote: »

If it is weatrher related it must be fog, looking at the latest metar. But it could be traffic still on the runway!

Ye, sounds like the most reasonable explanation! I bet there was a few pax sh*ting themselves:pac:
I was only ever on one flight that proceeded a 'Go around', as it was my first experience I was a bit shaky especially as there was no explanation from flight deck either!

pclancy

Remember Flight crew are a bit too busy during a go around to put out a PA...

Jhcx

Fog was very bad at 21:00 couldnt see our plane meters from the gate.

notuslimited

Landed tonight at 21:30 from AMS. Mist all the way down to about the last 50 feet.

andy_g

Vis was below minimums this evening that flight was not the only go round

Suasdaguna1

andy_g wrote: »

Vis was below minimums this evening that flight was not the only go round

Mins for Cat1.

Hovered around 350m during the night, which is well above CatIII limits

basill

No idea if the following explanation is relevant to the FR go around at all but here is some background to low viz ops in Dublin. Essentially both the airport operator (DAA) and ATC want as high a possible flow rate as possible and to minimise delays. Going into low viz ops greatly reduces this. It also slows down the entire airport as specified taxi routes must be taken. Most maintenance around the field has to stop so as not to interfere with the protected areas of the ILS. In other words its a pain in the butt for all concerned. RT workload increases as ATC often cannot see you so position reports are required and progressive taxi instructions issued.

When the viz and/or cloudbase drops they won't go into low viz procedures as a general rule until the cloudbase goes below 200ft and the met viz less than 800m or RVR less than 550m.

There will of course be a point where the current weather is right on Cat 1 minimums but continuing to drop before you get to the runway. The airport will still be in cat 1 ops and inevitably a go around will ensue as you don't get the required visual reference for landing. At this point ATC will instigate low viz operations. But it will take time and whilst in this change over period some aircraft may need to divert as a result depending on how much holding fuel they have.

hidinginthebush

If the fog is too thick, is the procedure not to let autopilot land the plane? Or are there varying degrees of fog thickness that would prompt such a decision?

basill

If the airport is still in cat 1 then its a manual only landing. Can do either a manual or an autoland in cat 2 but higher minima for manual. Cat 3 is fully automatic. It's down to the airfield to specify whether low vis procedures are in force or not. If they haven't changed over then there is not much the crew can do if they don't get the required visual references.

IngazZagni

Yep the airport refused to put the airport into low vis ops despite aircraft reporting cloud base lower than reported. The Aer Lingus EI167 from Heathrow diverted to Belfast and didn't seem happy that low vis ops were not implemented.

urajoke

IngazZagni wrote: »

Yep the airport refused to put the airport into low vis ops despite aircraft reporting cloud base lower than reported. The Aer Lingus EI167 from Heathrow diverted to Belfast and didn't seem happy that low vis ops were not implemented.

Blame the lads flying desks for this one they wanted the requirements for LVPs reduced(weather wise) before LVPs were initiated so there would be less delays. ATC are only doing what the operators want but the people at the coal face don't agree. The messenger in this case ALWAYS gets shot.

andyoc

FR 7033 FAO DUB diverting to SNN

dm09

pclancy wrote: »

Remember Flight crew are a bit too busy during a go around to put out a PA...

Yes, I would imagine so! Perhaps a Cabin attendant could do the PA to alleviate concerns of nervous passengers. Most likely frequent fliers would have experienced more than one go arounds but the guy who goes to Spain once a year is probably clutching his rosary beads and hyperventilating!:D

ShanE90

Why cant a full auto land be carried out in fog if they have CAT III?

urajoke

dm09 wrote: »

Yes, I would imagine so! Perhaps a Cabin attendant could do the PA to alleviate concerns of nervous passengers. Most likely frequent fliers would have experienced more than one go arounds but the guy who goes to Spain once a year is probably clutching his rosary beads and hyperventilating!:D

Would you believe a CA if they did a PA considering they wouldn't know what was happening sitting on the cabin.

Growler!!!

dm09 wrote: »

Perhaps a Cabin attendant could do the PA to alleviate concerns of nervous passengers.

The cabin attendant won't know the reason for the go around. Unless they've spoken to the flight deck. Who are already busy with the go around.

After the Aviating bit and the Navigating bit comes the Communicating bit:D

dm09

Growler!!! wrote: »

The cabin attendant won't know the reason for the go around. Unless they've spoken to the flight deck. Who are already busy with the go around.

After the Aviating bit and the Navigating bit comes the Communicating bit:D

Yes, fair enough they might not know the reason for the go around but maybe they could make an announcement just to say a go around is in progress, a standard procedure etc.
A senior cabin attendant would probably have a fair idea judging by the visibility or stability of aircraft on approach for reason, Just a thought.. I've no problem with go around having been through several but I've witnessed people panic.

Maybe its something they could mention in the pre-flight briefing, there may be possibility of a go around, Do not panic! :P

basill

Why cant a full auto land be carried out in fog if they have CAT III?

I think you need to reread a few posts above you. It can. But they weren't.

McNulty737

ShanE90 wrote: »

Why cant a full auto land be carried out in fog if they have CAT III?

Ryr 737-800's are equipped for CATIII A, which means you still require 200 meters visibility and 50 feet cloud base....sometimes in thick fog its still impossible to land even with CATIII.

LXFlyer

dm09 wrote: »

Yes, fair enough they might not know the reason for the go around but maybe they could make an announcement just to say a go around is in progress, a standard procedure etc.
A senior cabin attendant would probably have a fair idea judging by the visibility or stability of aircraft on approach for reason, Just a thought.. I've no problem with go around having been through several but I've witnessed people panic.

Maybe its something they could mention in the pre-flight briefing, there may be possibility of a go around, Do not panic! :P

That's exactly what the senior cabin crew did on any of the flights that I've been on that had a go around (Bmi and Aer Lingus). They said, that a go around was in progress, it was standard procedure, and in due course the captain would inform us of what the reason was, which he duly did.

I don't see the need however for a pre-flight announcement about it.

Fagashlil

Growler!!! wrote: »

The cabin attendant won't know the reason for the go around. Unless they've spoken to the flight deck. Who are already busy with the go around.

After the Aviating bit and the Navigating bit comes the Communicating bit:D

The FR SOP for go arounds is that the CC, usually #1, does make a reassurance PA after a specified time, if no communication from the FD, and is followed up by a PA from the FD.

dm09

Fagashlil wrote: »

The FR SOP for go arounds is that the CC, usually #1, does make a reassurance PA after a specified time, if no communication from the FD, and is followed up by a PA from the FD.

This sounds like a good process! A lot of Airlines are excellent at passenger comms, some not so much!

Suasdaguna1

Pee soup here in south dub.....I see forecasting 400m fog later for Dublin airport. Prepare for some delays folks and yes I think it is an excellent idea that the cabin crew say something after a missed approach as passengers can be very anxious after such an event.

For us up front, no we are not grappling with the machine but to get the machine skyward again is a little dynamic, pitch attitudes, correct flap settings, raising the gear, ensuring the aircraft is following the correct missed approach procedure as believe me this is critical, changing over to another atc freq.....just lots going on and in the old aviation adage ...".aviate, navigate, communicate"

By the time we are ready for a PA could be 5mins plus after so a cabin crew giving a reassuring pa is a great settler for some.

n0brain3r

I was on a flight into Dublin once and we had to go around I think it was explained after that the previous flight didn't clear the runway in time or something like that. Anyway once it started A flight attendant came on and said there was nothing to worry about that the captain spotted a stand closer to the airport and we where going back for that one . The info doesn't have to be anyway accurate just reassuring that everything is normal it got a bit of a chuckle and changed the atmosphere in the cabin instantly.

andy_g

Suasdaguna1 wrote: »

Mins for Cat1.

Hovered around 350m during the night, which is well above CatIII limits

As already mentioned in the thread DAA were changing over. Plus DH was reached and no runway lighting to be seen from the said aircraft.

keith16

Suasdaguna1 wrote: »

Pee soup here in south dub.....I see forecasting 400m fog later for Dublin airport. Prepare for some delays folks

Do you think it could be an "interesting" evening to rival the high winds back in April with a high number of go-arounds?

Mech1

keith16 wrote: »

Do you think it could be an "interesting" evening to rival the high winds back in April with a high number of go-arounds?

Don't worry I'm following this, if it gets interesting I will "tighten up" the feed to suit.

urajoke

keith16 wrote: »

Do you think it could be an "interesting" evening to rival the high winds back in April with a high number of go-arounds?

No, it's routine enough. Winds make for unstable approaches whereas with fog pilots know what to expect and have latest weather from ATC.

Suasdaguna1

andy_g wrote: »

As already mentioned in the thread DAA were changing over. Plus DH was reached and no runway lighting to be seen from the said aircraft.

Andy....I'm not questioning the actions of any crew. Fog is fog, you roll with punches and the cards one is dealt. Lay off being sensitive.

andy_g

Suasdaguna1 wrote: »

Andy....I'm not questioning the actions of any crew. Fog is fog, you roll with punches and the cards one is dealt. Lay off being sensitive.

No sensitivity was within my post im posting fact. If there is a problem with my posts report them as my co-mod will deal with me as i would him with unbias, if theres reason for bias take the next step up to the cmods etc.