Buying for cash (cash in hand)

btcirl

Hi folks,

I've recently had a myriad of problems with my '98 Mercedes SLK R170 due to it being in a bit of a tip before I bought it and it doesn't make economical sense to repair, so I'm looking at getting the following Mercedes SL 500 in the next few days:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/SL-Class/SL-500-V/30113466717265710/advert?channel=CARS

2002, listed at €10,995, has 79,000 miles on the clock and - I hope - is raring to take advantage of me in every way possible!!

I'm just looking for advice from anybody that may have had experience paying for a similar car in cash - what kind of discount (if any) do you reckon I should be aiming for? My business is entirely cash based (yes, I pay my taxes :pac:) so I have the actual cash in hand.

I don't mind sorting out a bank transfer for the dealer if necessary, but I'm ideologically opposed to Irish banking and don't want to contribute a single cent to them, nor put any amount of funds into an operation working on a fractional reserve banking system. Different discussion for a different day, I suppose!

I know the buyer market for a 5L car is fairly slim these days so I reckon I've got that point working in my favour.

I'm going to get a full mechanic's report carried out before making the decision to buy but the dealer seems to be a reputable outfit so I'm comfortable enough dealing with them.

Any input on any level of discount / possible extras that I should be aiming for would be much appreciated!

Thanks guys!

ba_barabus

btcirl wrote: »

Any input on any level of discount / possible extras that I should be aiming for would be much appreciated!

I doubt you'll get much discount as it doesn't work like that any more. You'll get more of a discount if you don't trade your heap in

btcirl

ba_barabus wrote: »

I doubt you'll get much discount as it doesn't work like that any more. You'll get more of a discount if you don't trade your heap in

Thanks for the reply!

I won't be trading the SLK in - the repair costs (as quoted by Mercedes) are in the region of €4,500; that's new part prices and prohibitively expensive labour but once I have the SL on the road I'll consider whether to source second hand parts and fix the SLK up to sell it on or scrap it.

Any idea how much of a discount you'd generally be looking at for a €10,995 car, cash purchase and no trade in?

Scortho

I'd offer him 9, show 9 and if he fails to haggle with you, walk off and tell him where he can find you.
The market for this type of car is slim and he could be sitting on it in 3 months time.

There is always a cash sale price. For mine it was 15% less than trade in price.

ba_barabus

There isn't any golden rule really. It all depends how much the dealer paid for it and how much they want rid of it. I'd aim to pay 9500 but you'll really just have to ring and ask.

Alanstrainor

Maybe I've spent too much time in the bangernomics thread, where cl500's pop up for peanuts...but is that not mental money for one of them??

Scortho

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Maybe I've spent too much time in the bangernomics thread, where cl500's pop up for peanuts...but is that not mental money for one of them??

I thought the same alright.
A user sold his e39 m5 for half that price.

Del2005

A lot of garages won't take that much in cash, too much risk on their behalf. Either draft or bank transfer.

As for the discount that's why haggling was invented :-)

Mylow

A lot of dealers wont take cash because of counterfeit money. A lot ask for bank draft and will only accept during banking hours so they can verify the draft.

ba_barabus

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Maybe I've spent too much time in the bangernomics thread, where cl500's pop up for peanuts...but is that not mental money for one of them??

Yep

btcirl

Scortho wrote: »

I'd offer him 9, show 9 and if he fails to haggle with you, walk off and tell him where he can find you.
The market for this type of car is slim and he could be sitting on it in 3 months time.

There is always a cash sale price. For mine it was 15% less than trade in price.

Yeah the demand for a 5L car is fairly small these days, that's one of the points I was hoping to work with. 15% is a nice number - what were you buying, out of interest?

ba_barabus wrote: »

There isn't any golden rule really. It all depends how much the dealer paid for it and how much they want rid of it. I'd aim to pay 9500 but you'll really just have to ring and ask.

Thanks for that, so ball-park figure to aim for of €9000-9500, but possibly nothing at all!

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Maybe I've spent too much time in the bangernomics thread, where cl500's pop up for peanuts...but is that not mental money for one of them??

Scortho wrote: »

I thought the same alright.
A user sold his e39 m5 for half that price.

I'm not mad into the CL class and they do seem to go for a fair bit lower, but any SL 500's that I've seen pop up have been in or around 10k, with the SL 350's usually going for a slightly higher price - probably due to the larger market for a sub 5L car. The SL has a generally higher spec though as well as superior handling and ride comfort so I don't mind paying a couple of grand premium for that over the CL.

Del2005 wrote: »

A lot of garages won't take that much in cash, too much risk on their behalf. Either draft or bank transfer.

As for the discount that's why haggling was invented :-)

Mylow wrote: »

A lot of dealers wont take cash because of counterfeit money. A lot ask for bank draft and will only accept during banking hours so they can verify the draft.

As mentioned, bank transfer is a possibility but I want as little to do with the thieving banks as possible on a moral level. I'd be more than happy to add a clause to the bill of sale stating that ownership wouldn't be transferred until they have deposited the cash at their branch which should solve counterfeit concerns.

You're probably right about them saying 'no' regardless, but with the slim market for a 5L car and a Cartell report showing the garage as having taken it in on 03/12/2012 I'd be hoping those points could work in my favour. I'm a terrible haggler though - any tips there would be great!

Thanks for all the replies in any event!

colm_mcm

I'd sooner be on an sc430 for 5k

serious3

offer 8k and wait for his reaction

colm_mcm

serious3 wrote: »

offer 8k and wait for his reaction

He might batter you

btcirl

colm_mcm wrote: »

I'd sooner be on an sc430 for 5k

I don't know what it is about the styling of the SC430 but it just doesn't do anything for me. It's too "rounded" or something, just not a fan of it at all.

The SL 500 is a car I've had in the back of my mind for a few years and it's something I'm finally in a position to afford to buy and run so that's what I really want to go for. Appreciate the suggestion though!

serious3 wrote: »

offer 8k and wait for his reaction

colm_mcm wrote: »

He might batter you

Haha, indeed!

colm_mcm

Replacing the standard massive alloy centre caps for the alternative ones does wonders, in a light colour they look a lot better.
Its not cool to like them, but I think they're a great cruiser.

They're also unbelievably well built.

serious3

colm_mcm wrote: »

He might batter you

and he just might say thanks very much!

BohsCeltic

I don't know if its just me but paying €10k for an eleven year old car seems mental

colm_mcm

serious3 wrote: »

and he just might say thanks very much!

Think that reference went over your head!

bazz26

You'd get a decent BMW 645i for that sort of money.

Supergurrier

Seems like alot for what it is tbh

George Dalton

The 645ci is a fine car but the SL500 is in a different league IMO.

€10000 for an 11 year old car might seem like a lot of money but how much did that car cost when new?

OP I would say you will buy that car for somewhere between €9500 and €10000, probably closer to €10k unless they have had it for a while and just want rid of it.

People saying offer €8000 aren't really in touch with reality. How much margin do people actually think dealers make on cars that they reckon they could afford to knock €3k off an €11k car, just because you walk in acting the hard man and "show them" the cash? :pac:

btcirl

colm_mcm wrote: »

Replacing the standard massive alloy centre caps for the alternative ones does wonders, in a light colour they look a lot better.
Its not cool to like them, but I think they're a great cruiser.

They're also unbelievably well built.

I've never driven one but I don't know, just seeing them around the place they don't give me that 'spark'. I couldn't imagine walking out of the house every morning and stepping into it, put it that way!

bazz26 wrote: »

You'd get a decent BMW 645i for that sort of money.

The BMW 645Ci is actually the alternative that I'd consider! I'm looking at a 2004 model with relatively low mileage, but I also want a convertible. The hard-top convertible aspect is what does it for me with the SL 500. Having had the Vario roof on the SLK, I can't really put a price on the the peace of mind that comes from the security of having a retractable hard-top as opposed to the soft-top 645Ci convertible. I'll be honest, I would consider a regular ol' hard-top 645Ci but the SL 500 is the more desired of the two.

Supergurrier wrote: »

Seems like alot for what it is tbh

I get you on that one, but I think it's very much an "each to his own" situation here. :P

serious3

offer 8 is just that, an offer, he'll then counter with another figure, and then you'll counter that offer, so and so forth and then you'll both be at the point where both of you think your getting the better deal, that's the point you need to get to.

Supergurrier

I understand completely im just biased and a cheapass in most things.

Sometimes it leads you off the beaten path where you find unexpected fun

bazz26

This one is a year younger asking €1k more:


http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Mercedes-Benz/SL-Class/500-V8/36613736724302040/

btcirl

George Dalton wrote: »

The 645ci is a fine car but the SL500 is in a different league IMO.

€10000 for an 11 year old car might seem like a lot of money but how much did that car cost when new?

OP I would say you will buy that car for somewhere between €9500 and €10000, probably closer to €10k unless they have had it for a while and just want rid of it.

People saying offer €8000 aren't really in touch with reality. How much margin do people actually think dealers make on cars that they reckon they could afford to knock €3k off an €11k car, just because you walk in acting the hard man and "show them" the cash? :pac:

I fully agree with you there, the SL 500 and the 645ci are completely different machines.

A Cartell report shows that the garage has had it since early December, 2012 so it's been there almost a year with no movement. I can't really see the market for that kind of car picking up any time soon so I would imagine the dealer would be more interested in making a sale with marginal profit than making no sale at all.

I'm meek and thoroughly agreeable - walking in acting the hard man and showing them the money will be an exercise in futility for me! They'd probably end up getting more money out of me than the asking price. :pac:

btcirl

bazz26 wrote: »

This one is a year younger asking €1k more:


http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Mercedes-Benz/SL-Class/500-V8/36613736724302040/

Yeah I saw that one but I don't think there's much point in throwing an extra €1,000 in for an SL 500 that's a year younger. It's got 3,000 more miles on it than the one I'm looking at, and I don't plan on attempting to shift the SL 500 for a few years so by the time that rolls around the 1 year age difference would have a neglible impact on the asking price.

€1,000 would go some way to a decent set of tyres too! :P

Supergurrier

Im a salesman by trade and am also a horrible haggler, alot is how you approach it.

If this dealership is like many other in order to give them a chance against unreasonable jackasses they have added 1k to the price, the old "you have to go up to come down" approach and they can probably do a little better than that if they want it out of the yard as liquid money is better than a car just sitting up that looked like a great deal to shift on back in december.

€9500 would be right on the money i reckon.

lomb

10k is a bargain for a sl500. Your looking even without VRT at the best part of 100k there.
Only problem with that car is the 20mpg youlL get on average, probably 13 or 14 in the city , 26 on runs.
On average miles that will cost 3600 a year to fuel, add tax in at 1800 and insurance in at 700, your looking at base costs without depreciation/servicing and tires at 6100e.

George Dalton

btcirl wrote: »

I'm meek and thoroughly agreeable - walking in acting the hard man and showing them the money will be an exercise in futility for me! They'd probably end up getting more money out of me than the asking price. :pac:

I wasn't suggesting that you would do that, just disagreeing with the other posters advocating this approach

lomb

Has the newer one conventional suspension though?Id run a mile from air suspension. Will cost you 800 a corner to fix when it goes wrong. Thats when not if. Black looks classier also also so thats subjective.

Del2005

btcirl wrote: »

I fully agree with you there, the SL 500 and the 645ci are completely different machines.

A Cartell report shows that the garage has had it since early December, 2012 so it's been there almost a year with no movement. I can't see the market for that kind of car picking up any time soon so I would imagine the dealer would be more interested in making a sale with marginal profit than making no sale at all.

I'm meek and thoroughly agreeable - walking in acting the hard man and showing them the money will be an exercise in futility for me! They'd probably end up getting more money out of me than the asking price. :pac:

A car in the yard is potential profit, unless their stuck for cash they may hold out. I can't see them adding to much fat to a car with an engine that size, that may even be their cash price, so there may not be much room to haggle.

Edit..
The reason garages won't take that much cash is security. They'd need a lot of insurance to keep that amount of cash and everyone knows what The General did after getting his bank draft.

Idbatterim

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/car-for-sale/5714645

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz-cl-class-cl500/5613014

there are two 5L mercs, one year older for a third of what that SL is looking for. Whats your budget? I'd like to see what you can sell it for privately the day after you buy it if you have to put it up on donedeal etc...

lomb

The CL is for a rich business man who has made it and wants everyone to know. It only has its effect when new. No one wants one second hand which is why prices are near zero.
The S is a luxury saloon that is a technological showcase again for the rich business family man who has made it and wants everyone to know. Used they are near worthless. Just look at what a 3 year old S commands relative to new. Its probably close to 30% due to the game effect of new wearing off.
An Sl is a classic GT convertible sought after long after its rolled out of the dealership. The lowest that car is worth is what its UK value would be which is 7k stg or around 8500 euros. Id pay more for a car with history/condition/good tires etc.
If anything its too cheap for what it is.
Old Pagoda Sls are fetching 50k these days. I think the gullwings are into the millions. Obviously these Sls arent worth that but they are worth 10k all day long in good nick.

qapmoc

lomb wrote: »

10k is a bargain for a sl500. Your looking even without VRT at the best part of 100k there.
Only problem with that car is the 20mpg youlL get on average, probably 13 or 14 in the city , 26 on runs.
On average miles that will cost 3600 a year to fuel, add tax in at 1800 and insurance in at 700, your looking at base costs without depreciation/servicing and tires at 6100e.

not a bargain so. You would be mad to buy it. Try to sell it yourself on adverts.ie and see how hard that would be.

lomb

qapmoc wrote: »

not a bargain so. You would be mad to buy it. Try to sell it yourself on adverts.ie and see how hard that would be.

I wouldnt sell anything on adverts except maybe a mobile. If someone wants something enough they will pay. Carzone or done deal will sell the SL for what its worth. You get alot of gamesters ringing but hold firm on the price or state that in the ad. True in this country the road tax limits the market but that car can be reexported to the UK.
Today all over Ireland people will hand over 20- 100 grand for new cars that are worth nothing. Its called the economy,,
Have a look at piston heads forums in the UK for an example of petrol heads purchases unconstrained by the warped road tax in Ireland.
I am not up on late exact SL prices as I looked at them a while ago but I would research the UK market to determine what it would get there.

Henry Ford III

George Dalton wrote: »

The 645ci is a fine car but the SL500 is in a different league IMO.

€10000 for an 11 year old car might seem like a lot of money but how much did that car cost when new?

OP I would say you will buy that car for somewhere between €9500 and €10000, probably closer to €10k unless they have had it for a while and just want rid of it.

People saying offer €8000 aren't really in touch with reality. How much margin do people actually think dealers make on cars that they reckon they could afford to knock €3k off an €11k car, just because you walk in acting the hard man and "show them" the cash? :pac:

I agree George.

If you assume there's say 15% discount available on every car you're in cloud cookoo land.

What's available depends on 2 things:

1/. What the dealer paid for the car.

2/. How badly they want to move it on.

The important thing is to establish what exactly the car is worth. Do your homework.

Consider 2 blokes going to look at 2 identical cars worth €8500 wholesale.

Buyer 1 likes the car which is priced at €10500. He haggles a bit and settles at €9250. He's of the view that he gotten €1250 off.

Buyer 2 also likes the other identical car that got a sticker price of €9250 on it. He's done his research and buys for €8875. He's only gotten €375 off the asking price, but he's paid €375 less for an identical car.

Contrary to what some are suggesting offering to produce cash "today" does help secure a better deal, but only at the sharp end of the negotiations.

"So €8875 is where you're at. If I got cash to you by 3pm today would you accept €8500?".

Many would as they could bank it immediately.

dantastic

btcirl wrote: »

A Cartell report shows that the garage has had it since early December, 2012 so it's been there almost a year with no movement. I can't really see the market for that kind of car picking up any time soon so I would imagine the dealer would be more interested in making a sale with marginal profit than making no sale at all.

How do you check that? That it's been with them that long?
Or do you need to buy the full report?