Winter 2013 fuel thread!

An Ri rua

Ok folks, its time for another winter fuel thread!


Some good offers on firewood here on Donedeal

I priced around for kerosene about a fortnight ago and both Campus Oil and Deverells Portarlington were the best. Jones Oil, Texoil and Emo were dearer. We're talking 15-20 per 1000L fill. Well worth pricing around.

I was over in the Cash & Carry behind Aldi (in the old Aldi store) and their briquettes were 4.29. They're 4.50 in woodies IF you buy 2. Otherwise 4.99.

Ok folks, let's get the info going. No point in leaving money on the table now.

elvis jones

Might be off topic but i've been told Portlaoise is going/has gone smokeless !

We enquired from a supplier about coal as he did a great deal of 2 x40 kg bags for 25 euro last winter BUT we were told last Friday that he won'r be selling that coal this winter as Portlaoise is smokeless and he would be fined 3,000 if he was found selling it !!!

Anyway he said that if he was selling it the price would be 28 quid as the carbon tax had pushed up the price.

I'd be interested in any coal deals in Portlaoise or Portarlington ( 40kg bags )

SIX PACK

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elvis jones

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Rovi

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JR Ewing

Just saw your post & with years of experience in the oil industry I decided to offer you all some insight into where you could possibly go wrong buying oil this Winter.

Purchasing home heating oil, agri diesel, petrol or road diesel is a unique experience for any consumer as it is the only time:

1. You are buying something you cannot see
2. You are buying something you cannot measure or quantify yourself
3. You are buying something which you don’t know what it consists of
4. The only thing the consumer can compare is the price & “assumes” that all else is equal

It is this assumption which is being preyed upon by rogue and unscrupulous suppliers. Most consumers’ attitude to buying oil is to research and do price comparisons between local suppliers (as a Hillbloom has done) BUT in many cases the so called “cheapest” quotation is from a supplier who will use one of a number of methods to “short” the customer for profit. Price is only 33% of the equation as it is not representative of VOLUME or PRODUCT QUALITY.

The common methods which are available to an unscrupulous supplier include the following:

A. Short Measure
While all delivery trucks and service station pumps are supposed to have NSAI/Legal Metrology Service (LMS) certified meters how many don’t? How many have been tampered with or incorrectly set initially? How does the customer know either way? My employer has told me that since entering the business in the early 1980’s he has only had 2 “weights & measures” or LMS inspections and on both occasions when the inspectors saw “sealed” meters they assumed they were correctly calibrated without doing any further checks. It should be mandatory that all truck meters and service station pumps should be independently verified on an annual basis and that consumers should have the right to request copies of certification from suppliers or indeed that the certificate should be attached to each pump. This is a highly lucrative exercise for any rogue supplier without leaving the consumer vastly short- for example- a distributor or service station who can sell 5 million litres of petrol or road diesel per annum with a miscalibration of just 3% short can withhold 300,000 from his clients and with oil prices at current levels this equates to close to €450,000 while many customers will not notice a 3% volume deficit reduction. As a matter of interest if you check the terms & conditions of business (either on the website or delivery docket) of your supplier I bet you will find the following clause "the buyer accepts the sellers measure of quantity" and/or something like "the seller accepts no responsibility for quantity or quality reduction in the fuel after delivery is made"- both of these clauses essentiallly means that as soon as the oil hits the bottom of your tank then you have no recourse for any shortage or otherwise.
B. Air or Temperature Contamination
Even if the meter calibration certificate is available, and is correct, it is apparently not 100% security against deception. Rumour abounds that there are suppliers with perfectly sealed and calibrated meters which then have an air hose inlet retro fitted to the line prior to passing through the meter (most likely on trucks rather than at service stations). The science involved uses compressed air to create bubbles in the oil before it passes through the meter enhancing and overstating the volume put through. If the truck is due to be inspected they simply switch off the air valve and the meter reverts to perfectly correct calibration. Another reported possible scam is where a container of a cold liquid (e.g. liquid nitrogen flask or ice bank) is placed close to the temperature probe of a temperature compensated meter to make sure that it always reads less than the optimum 15 degrees also resulting in a loss to the customer. Neither of the above scams would be easily detectable by an inspector as they could be very well concealed.
C. Preprinted Delivery Dockets
Rumours also circulate that there are suppliers who issue “pre printed” delivery tickets to unattended deliveries. The theory here is that a supplier could run off vast quantities of different quantity tickets i.e. 300 litres, 500 litres, 1000 litres etc and then when they arrive at an unattended delivery put no meter ticket in the meter instead using a pre printed ticket and leaving the volume short. I would estimate that particularly in the home heating market approx 50-60% of deliveries would be unattended as people may be at work when the delivery is being made.
D. Washed/Manipulated Product
There has been much press dedicated to the fact that there is a mass volume of “washed” road diesel product available on the market but it still hasn’t stopped people from buying it and the fraudsters from staying in business. The cheaper price of this product is what attracts the customers and it is impossible to compete with.
E. Stretched Product
Allegedly there are also suppliers “stretching” road diesel, kerosene & agri diesel by adding cheaper bio diesel to the product to increase their potential margin while ethanol/alcohol is supposedly being added to petrol for the same purpose.
F. Illegally Imported Product
A significant volume of kerosene from Northern Ireland also appears to be making its way South and while it comes in as a “clear” colour it is then mixed with “red” kerosene in The South resulting in the whole mix being red but just not as red as it should be. The difference in duty and carbon tax is alleged to be close to €5,000 per articulated truck load. Feel free to check out sites such as www.cheapestoil.ie which offers “price comparisons” for the country- why are the cheapest suppliers all located close to the border? Why are no recognizable brand names or direct importers (whom have the lowest cost base as they land the products in the country and are the primary dealers) such as Topaz, Valero, TOP, Maxol, Texoil, ESSO appearing close to the top of the list?
G. Under Delivery- this is where you are quoted a cheap price for 1,000 litres but they delivery an amount less than this (even though your tank can take the full 1,000) and increase the per litre price to gain margin. For example if quoted €830 for 1,000 litres (83c per litre) and the bill comes with 937 litres cost €796.45 (85c per litre) would you cop it? How many people don't?

The general public are unaware of much of the goings on within the industry but it is now so bad that Revenue/Customs require all suppliers to submit monthly ROM1 returns of stock movement. This will solve the problem but will take years for them to build up enough mathematical/paperwork evidence to root out the rogues many of whom will have "dummy" companies already set up to go again the following day.

Hope this gives you some food for thought when buying any oil products either from a truck or service station. It pays to be very careful rather than chasing what looks like the cheapest price as I would hazard a guess that the lowest price in any given area is more likely to be a rogue at the moment!! Always remember you are buying an "invisible" & "immeasurable" product so you better trust the supplier himself and not just his price.

There are 100s of genuine legitimate and honest suppliers out their but there are now a serious number of rogues as well so becareful - the cheapest may not always be best.

An Ri rua

@JR Ewing Great post. I've posted similar info elsewhere but not to this level of detail. Much appreciated.

I worked in oil distribution for a number of years also. OT, but I hauled a service station of a well-known distributor over the coals a few years ago. I had just received 75 litres of diesel into a 65 litre capacity tank. After an hour of testing and arguing, he claimed he had actually given me 80 litres as his metres were shortchanging him! I called Revenue and they advised they had to give ADVANCE notice to inspect him. And tell him WHICH EXACT pump they wished to check!!! End result? He got off.

Consumers beware. Know your tanks, know your capacities. Home tanks generally take 10% more than their stated capacity. To avoid spills. Car and vehicle tanks DO NOT.

ps you stated that you'd better trust the supplier himself and not just the price. Totally true. In my years of professional sales (commodities, solutions etc), its always been clear, and been elucidated to customers by me, that you are buying the product, the company and the person doing the selling. You must be happy with all three or you will come a cropper.

An Ri rua

I constantly research simple technologies that improve fuel efficiency and also frugal living.

If any of you are using oil stoves or wood stoves, make sure you research and check out www.ecofan.ie. An Irish supplier of an internationally acclaimed product. See them on Amazon, on Youtube etc.

If you have an open fire and don't want to install a stove, then you must look at ways to improve the efficiency. The current technology on show in recently built Irish housing stock is despicable and primitive. The art of chimney building to ensure good draw is definitely lost also.
But if you have some money to spare, and like the raw flame of the open fire versus a stove, and don't want to have to invest in a chimney liner also, then research www.jetmaster.co.uk Hundreds of thousands have been installed worldwide over the last 40 years and some Irish retailers do stock them. I think they're upwards of 1500 though. Was watching one sell secondhand in Wiltshire for €500 collected. That's a bargain.
But, having lobbied Dan Boyle repeatedly in 2009 (no gain for me; just seeing common sense win out) and now Joan Burton, to install stoves wherever fuel allowance was being paid (the 80/20 rule applies to stoves versus open fires also re fuel used and heat released), I now see that a Galway company has approached Credit Unions and there is now a loan scheme available to install their version of what I would consider similar to Jetmaster. So where government could have spent welfare aids more wisely, improved people's (often old folk) comfort, created dozens of fit-out jobs for the construction sector, and had the project earn out after perhaps 3 years, instead its left once again to the private and voluntary sectors to lift this country out of its inefficiency stupor. See http://www.ecograte.ie/creditunion.html Although take note that, if I am correct, they advise a chimney flue installation in the fine print. Jetmaster do not, as far as I know.

An Ri rua

Anyone near Mountmellick looking for a very cheap load of firewood tonight (ASAP) should have a look at

http://www.adverts.ie/building-materials/firewood-in-mointmellick-for-immediate-sale/4149736#comment_20523799

It would suit someone who wants cheap firewood and is willing to put a bit of work into cutting it up into usable firewood. But its shed-saved for a year or two as far as I know.
Ring the guy tonight though as he wants it gone to free up his trailer.