Forum Shake Up

2011

Following a brainstorming session with Stoner we have come up with a few ideas to improve the Electrical Forum.

We are proposing the following:

The “Excellent Post”. Over the years posters have made some posts that have absolutley nailed the question asked by the OP. We will populate a locked sticky with these posts. We can then refer users to posts on this thread rather than constantly repeating oursleves. This sticky cold encapsulate the existing circuit diagram thread and it could be expanded to take in links to other resources and explanations to popular industry subjects like power factor correction, discrimination, cable sizing tools, earth fault loop impedance etc. This content could be collectively called a vault or library sticky, with videos, diagrams text threads and excellent posts.

New sub forum: We would like to launch a “Home Automation / Controls / Instrumentation” sub forum. Here we can discuss topics shuch as X10, media streaming, CAT5 / 6 / 7 installation, comms rooms, home audio video wiring, relay logic, interlocks, instrumentation, heating controls, home AV applications, PLCs etc.

Reduction of off topic posting. Many threads get dragged off topic leaving the OP more confused that ever! Replies are great but in some cases it would be preferable to start a new thread rather than dragging a thread off topic. If we feel that a thread is being dragged off topic we will be forced to delete posts in the interests of the OP.

Discussion relating to trade issues, industrial disputes, unions and pay rates will not be permitted on the Electrical forum.This topic can be discussed in the

Work & Jobs Forum.

From the 1st of October 2013 it will be illegal for a non-Registered Electrical Contractor to carry out most electrical work in domestic premises. This will result in the subject taking on a legal agenda; discussing the legal standing of this law will not be allowed on this forum. This isuse can be discussed in the

Legal Discussion Forum.

We have noticed that some forums on boards can be a little intimidating for someone in or out an industry to ask a question. I'm sure even regular posters have been a little hesitant to a question relating to something they should know or have forgotten. We are looking for suggestions to reduce the likelihood of this type of environment presenting itself on the electrical forum.

In light of the current legal position regarding the installation of electrical works, we are considering a sticky called "what would an electrician do" to help home ower get a better understanding of any work they intend to have carried out in their home.

The “Excellent Work” photo sticky. If you have seen some excellent electrical work that really impresses you start a thread, insert a photo of it with a brief description. If we feel the photo makes the grade we will insert your post (including photo) with your description in the new locked sticky. The intentions behind this sticky are positive, therefore negative comments regarding the quality of any posted work should be made to a moderator via PM not posted on the public forum, any questionable photographs will be removed without public notification.

Please let us know if you are in agreement with the suggestions listed in this post by using the thanks button. Suggestions / comments always welcome (PMs to Mods).

Stoner

HI all,

We have received some very good PMs, thank you. We've also had advice from other mods from different forums who have been down this road before.

One issue stuck out with respect to the possible changes was along the lines of people being restricted in asking basic questions.

So if we get to a stage where only certified electricians can do work in a house, a client may still want to know how an electrician would go about this work, therefore we see it as perfectly reasonable that a client would find out how an electrician would approach a project. This will result in them being better informed and confident when speaking to a trades-person.

We opened up this thread now for some more feedback and would appreciate any input from you guys please.

Thank you again.

cast_iron

2011 wrote: »

The “Excellent Post”. Over the years posters have made some posts that have absolutley nailed the question asked by the OP. We will populate a locked sticky with these posts. We can then refer users to posts on this thread rather than constantly repeating oursleves. This sticky cold encapsulate the existing circuit diagram thread and it could be expanded to take in links to other resources and explanations to popular industry subjects like power factor correction, discrimination, cable sizing tools, earth fault loop impedance etc. This content could be collectively called a vault or library sticky, with videos, diagrams text threads and excellent posts.

Great idea.

New sub forum: We would like to launch a “Home Automation / Controls / Instrumentation” sub forum. Here we can discuss topics shuch as X10, media streaming, CAT5 / 6 / 7 installation, comms rooms, home audio video wiring, relay logic, interlocks, instrumentation, heating controls, home AV applications, PLCs etc.

Great idea.

Reduction of off topic posting. Many threads get dragged off topic leaving the OP more confused that ever! Replies are great but in some cases it would be preferable to start a new thread rather than dragging a thread off topic. If we feel that a thread is being dragged off topic we will be forced to delete posts in the interests of the OP.

Rather than just deleting off topic posts, how about the Mods take a more proactive role in splitting off these posts into a new thread. When a topic goes off topic and an interesting discussion happens to follow, posters are rarely interested in starting a new thread themselves as it can be hard to tell the direction the thread will take. If most points have already been made, then why delete these posts and say "start a new thread" to repeat themselves. The discussion could continue freely by a Mod moving them to its own thread without any great hassle.

Clearly, if the off topic posting is of no relevance/interest at all to the forum, then it should be deleted.

Discussion relating to trade issues, industrial disputes, unions and pay rates will not be permitted on the Electrical forum.This topic can be discussed in the Work & Jobs Forum.

I don't really agree with this. Most people reading this forum won't be checking the work and jobs forum for trade issue discussion. If it's a case that Mods don't want that discussed here, I'm not sure why the Work and Jobs Mods would want it. either it's worthy of discussion on Boards or not.

From the 1st of October 2013 it will be illegal for a non-Registered Electrical Contractor to carry out most electrical work in domestic premises. This will result in the subject taking on a legal agenda; discussing the legal standing of this law will not be allowed on this forum. This isuse can be discussed in the Legal Discussion Forum.

Similar to the point above, I think it's a small bit of a cop out to send them off to that forum.

We have noticed that some forums on boards can be a little intimidating for someone in or out an industry to ask a question. I'm sure even regular posters have been a little hesitant to a question relating to something they should know or have forgotten. We are looking for suggestions to reduce the likelihood of this type of environment presenting itself on the electrical forum.

That's a difficult one to solve. One the one hand, we want expert advice on sometimes highly technical topics, but we also want to appear open to the most basic questions. I don't think anyone intends to be intimidating with their knowledge when they go into detail. I'm not sure how this one can be tackled.

In light of the current legal position regarding the installation of electrical works, we are considering a sticky called "what would an electrician do" to help home ower get a better understanding of any work they intend to have carried out in their home.

Great idea.

The “Excellent Work” photo sticky. If you have seen some excellent electrical work that really impresses you start a thread, insert a photo of it with a brief description. If we feel the photo makes the grade we will insert your post (including photo) with your description in the new locked sticky. The intentions behind this sticky are positive, therefore negative comments regarding the quality of any posted work should be made to a moderator via PM not posted on the public forum, any questionable photographs will be removed without public notification.

Great idea.

Please let us know if you are in agreement with the suggestions listed in this post by using the thanks button. Suggestions / comments always welcome (PMs to Mods).

I know these things can sometimes develop into an argument, but I disagree with original idea that all discussion of the development of the forum should be conducted via PM. I'm more than happy for people to disagree with the opinions I express and state why. No one is going to be right all the time. This is a discussion forum after all!

2011

cast_iron, thank you for the constructive feedback.

cast_iron wrote: »

I disagree with original idea that all discussion of the development of the forum should be conducted via PM.

Point taken.
The reason for suggestions by PM was because the thread was locked at the time, so it was not possible for people to post replies.
Once we felt that people had time to "digest" the suggestions the thread was unlocked.

Most people reading this forum won't be checking the work and jobs forum for trade issue discussion.

It is not necessary to check any forum to see where a topic is being discussed. The search can be used.

If it's a case that Mods don't want that discussed here, I'm not sure why the Work and Jobs Mods would want it.

...because they have a specific "Work Problems" sub forum.


I will have a chat with Stoner & respond to your other points in due course, thanks again.

liveandnetural

i agree with everthing that cast iron said .

seperating off work issues union stuff pay rates away off onto other sub boards is just pointless because it will just get lost in the fog
why not have a sub category if you want to split it for electrical work related items (there hasnt been that many over the last few years)

.G.

I was one of the people who originally wanted a trade issues discussion thread while the battle over the REA was ongoing which Stoner then facilitated for a while however since the REA is now defunct and we are all out on our own as far as wages and conditions are concerned there's probably little point in a thread discussing it.

liveandnetural

i know it heading of topic

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0919/475291-collective-bargaining/

not gone away yet if eamon has his way...(or is that frankfurts way)

there will always be issues that are stricly not "electrical" but that have a relationship to electrical industry and maybe there sould be room for them within forum

Stoner

superg wrote: »

I was one of the people who originally wanted a trade issues discussion thread while the battle over the REA was ongoing which Stoner then facilitated for a while however since the REA is now defunct and we are all out on our own as far as wages and conditions are concerned there's probably little point in a thread discussing it.

I think the thread is still there i just unstuck it

Stoner

Ok some good stuff again guys its mostly along the same lines.

As mentioned there were only a few trade related topics, as superg said we gave it a go and it got little attention, but there is no reason why we can't do the same thread again. We just have to watch it carefully, I'm sure most people understand that we are trying to avoid a situation where different individual or corporate situations are under discussion, its opens boards up to all sorts of issues, as mods here we cant give legal advice.

Most forums have grounds for users working in the industry to post there but it is nearly always pushed away, its not a pushing it away IMHO its keeping it on topic, the computer games forum is not a forum for games makers to talk about rates of pay, the food and drink forum is about food and drink, not how much tips someone gets. The facts are that there are people better placed to talk about employment issues on boards.

All that said the stuck thread went reasonably well so why don't we just stick it again and we can keep an eye on it, i don't think we had to do anything with it anyway while it was stuck before.'

2011

As per Stoner's post above:

Due to popular demand posters are permitted to contribute to the "Trade Issues" thread.
However posters must comply with the rules outlined by Stoner in post #1.

Link:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73233522

cast_iron

liveandnetural wrote: »

seperating off work issues union stuff pay rates away off onto other sub boards is just pointless because it will just get lost in the fog

I agree. They come up so rarely, a casual discussion on this forum would receive alot more replies than directing people to work and jobs. I suppose if it got heated and too technical on work law technicalities etc., it could be moved to work and jobs. There probably isn't enough discussion of it to justify a sub-forum.

Stoner wrote:

All that said the stuck thread went reasonably well so why don't we just stick it again and we can keep an eye on it, i don't think we had to do anything with it anyway while it was stuck before.'

That's probably the best solution.

From the 1st of October 2013 it will be illegal for a non-Registered Electrical Contractor to carry out most electrical work in domestic premises. This will result in the subject taking on a legal agenda; discussing the legal standing of this law will not be allowed on this forum. This isuse can be discussed in the Legal Discussion Forum.

Just to expand a little on this point. For a start, I understand the reasoning behind sending topics to the appropriate forum, but I don't see these issues to be common enough or overly technical not to be discussed casually on this forum. To make a comparison, if someone on the Motors Forum said they crossed a white line while driving, and another poster said that's dangerous and illegal, this proposal is a bit akin to saying "None of that talk, off to Legal Discussion to argue that point".

I don't see the recent legal changes as too highly technical that it can only be discussed with Legal Forum Mods overlooking it. For now, I don't see floods of threads with these sorts of causing issues. If these discussions become overly technical or too frequent for the Mods to handle here, then perhaps sending those sort of threads to Legal Discussion may be necessary. Until that happens though, I feel it will only stifle casual discussion on this forum.

2011

cast_iron wrote: »

I don't see the recent legal changes as too highly technical that it can only be discussed with Legal Forum Mods overlooking it.

...and I am sure that plenty of people in the legal forum would be able to advise how to connect a 13A plug top, but that does not make it the appropriate forum for that type of discussion.

From the 1st of October only a Registered Electrical Contractor can complete electrical work in domestic premises, with the exception of Minor Works. Regardless of the motives or how people feel about it that it is the now law, simple as.

Debating the rights, the wrongs, the enforcement and the practicalities of this piece of legislation has been done to death here already and is not the direction that we want to take the Electrical Forum in.

However this position may be reconsidered in the future. If someone feels that they have a compelling reason / persusaive argument feel free to PM the mods.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

...and I am sure that plenty of people in the legal forum would be able to advise how to connect a 13A plug top, but that does not make it the appropriate forum for that type of discussion.

There is far more of a link between a change in the legality of electricians being criminalised for doing electrical work, and an electrical forum, than there is between wiring of plugs, and a legal forum.

cast_iron

I agree with Robbie. There isn't a reason in the world a thread about wiring a plug should be left in the Legal forum, but a change in the regulations that effects electricians' work place would be worthy of casual discussion on this forum. I have bolded the word casual as I feel anything too technical on a legal point doesn't belong here. I do think the effects and tales of this legislation on electricians should be discussed here.

In any case, it's probably not going to be a huge issue as the forum is hardly over-run with it anymore.

Stoner

cast_iron wrote: »

I agree with Robbie. There is n't a reason in the world a thread about wiring a plug should be left in the Legal forum, but a change in the regulations that effects electricians' work place would be worthy of casual discussion on this forum. I have bolded the word casual as I feel anything too technical on a legal point doesn't belong here. I do think the effects and tales of this legislation on electricians should be discussed here.

In any case, it's probably not going to be a huge issue as the forum is hardly over-run with it anymore.

Thanks for all the comments.

WRT the legal stuff we can address that by discussing how work would be completed by a tradesperson .

I don't want us to return to these old agruements please. Discussing wiring a plug is not and never will be what we are calling legal issue.

The legal position an electrician finds him or herself in with respect to carrying out electrical work the legal issue we are trying to avoid, not the work itself, nor is someone's qualifications in question.

As cast iron has indicated, it has died down anyway. I'm sure there will be plenty of threads started on the issue by Joe soaps anyway and we will address them.

We are simply trying to avoid the forum being a source of legal advice, if we allow that we could be site banned. The reality of the situation is that there will most likely be grey areas that we will have to address.