Pre-race craziness

conavitzky

Folks,
Have any of ye in the last two weeks before a key race felt your training getting stale, felt no zip in your legs and just started doubting yourself in general.
I have a half coming up in two weeks and have put in good solid training. Lots of miles, long tempo runs, PHMP miles, hard hills etc. over 10 week period having upped my mileage slightly from good base of training.
I went out last night for my last hard session before the race and did 2 miles w/u, 6 x 1 miles @ 10k pace (have been doing longer intervals at slightly faster than PHMP up til now (5-6 x 3k) - dont know why I changed last night!) with 3mins rest and 2 mile w/d.
Now before I started my half training I was rattling off 4-5 x 1 mile intervals at 5mins 45 secs. Last night I felt like I was really working to get my reps done between 5-55 and 6-05 and felt no zip.
The only faster stuff I have done recently was two sessions of 8x800m at 5k pace approx 4 weeks ago.
Is it the case that when you are training for a longer distances that you lose some speed but have greater endurance over slightly slower speeds.
I am hoping that the legs freshen up in the next few weeks/days! Any thoughts?

Krusty_Clown

6 x 1 miles @ 10k pace: You are essentially running 10k at 10k pace, which is never going to be an easy session. How much rest did you have between reps? You have just hit your training peak for your half-marathon, so some tiredness is very much expected. The two week taper before your race should see a return to form and leave you in peak shape.

I wouldn't rule out external influences either (weather, health, nutrition, hydration etc.). The week before last I really struggled with 8 x 1 mile with 30 seconds rest. A couple of days later, I ran a 10k PB. A few days later I comfortably ran 4 x 2 mile at the pace I struggled at the previous week (2 mins rest) and a few days later ran a half-marathon PB. So one bad session shouldn't be unexpected and may be unrelated to fitness.

wrstan

Here's my t'pence worth:

- focus on the fact that you have a really solid training behind you - that's in the bank now and nothing can take it away
- go back through your training log and pick out some killer sessions that were really tough but made you feel great, the one's where you were really motoring, the intensity was up, but you felt smooth and comfortable, where you really enjoyed the feeling of running hard and fast
- Think through every detail of those sessions, especially how you felt about them and why you felt like that, especially the sense of satisfaction you felt after them - they're in the bank too!

That is a now great foundation to build your confidence on.

Now that you've got your head right :P it's time to start thinking about your legs.

My advice is that you need to focus on gettign your legs feeling really fresh. IMHO it is always better to feel under cooked than over cooked. How you do this depends on lots of things, including your age, the amount of mileage you regularly run and what type of runner you are. But bear in mind that there is very little you can do to make yourself fitter between now and your race.

My approach is now to take the foot right off the gas in training before a key target race. My objective for an A goal race is to stand on the start line with my legs literally begging me to take them out for a hard, fast run!

If you can get yourself to this point (how you get there is really up to you), and you have a great training plan in the bank (which seems to be the case) you will do well for sure.

And don't forget to report back!

Rantan

conavitzky wrote: »

Folks,
, long tempo runs, PHMP miles, hard hills etc. over 10 week period having upped my mileage slightly from good base of training.

I'd say you are over trained - my half PB is 95 so maybe Im not the best to advise but on teh face of it I would take an extra couple of days rest in your taper...get a rub down whatever....

Krusty_Clown

Rantan wrote: »

I'd say you are over trained - my half PB is 95 so maybe Im not the best to advise but on teh face of it I would take an extra couple of days rest in your taper...get a rub down whatever....

What makes you think he/she is over-trained? The road to a good half marathon should include lots of long, hard and mileage. Perhaps the OP is over-trained, but it is impossible for you or I to diagnose the condition based on the 250 word initial post. My personal bug-bear is that the solution to any tough session is automatically to 'take a few days off', when in fact, the solution should be to 'self-diagnose' and act accordingly. Sometimes doing nothing isn't the right answer.

conavitzky

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

6 x 1 miles @ 10k pace: You are essentially running 10k at 10k pace, which is never going to be an easy session. How much rest did you have between reps? You have just hit your training peak for your half-marathon, so some tiredness is very much expected. The two week taper before your race should see a return to form and leave you in peak shape.

I wouldn't rule out external influences either (weather, health, nutrition, hydration etc.). The week before last I really struggled with 8 x 1 mile with 30 seconds rest. A couple of days later, I ran a 10k PB. A few days later I comfortably ran 4 x 2 mile at the pace I struggled at the previous week (2 mins rest) and a few days later ran a half-marathon PB. So one bad session shouldn't be unexpected and may be unrelated to fitness.

Thanks for reply KC,. I took 90 secs rest between reps. I forgot to say that I did a 4 x 150m m stride outs after these reps at 90% which felt easier on the body strangely enough. I know that I am going to find it hard over next few days not to go out and blast a few more intervals. Had planned on doing 3x2 mile at PHMP 9 days out with 2 steady miles either side, cutting back to shorter easy runs interspersed with slightly faster than PHMP bursts (kind of farltek) over remaining days. I suppose I have to listen to my body over the next few days. Will judge each planned session as I am doing it and cut my cloth to suit. If I feel overcooked better to cut back on the session and go in fresher I suppose than pig headedly finishing a session for the sake of ticking off the diary! All the harder stuff has been done really. No major gains to be made at this stage. Probably overthinking everything now! At least wrstan has sorted out my head.:D

P.S. Well done in Athlone!

conavitzky

wrstan wrote: »

Here's my t'pence worth:

- focus on the fact that you have a really solid training behind you - that's in the bank now and nothing can take it away
- go back through your training log and pick out some killer sessions that were really tough but made you feel great, the one's where you were really motoring, the intensity was up, but you felt smooth and comfortable, where you really enjoyed the feeling of running hard and fast
- Think through every detail of those sessions, especially how you felt about them and why you felt like that, especially the sense of satisfaction you felt after them - they're in the bank too!

That is a now great foundation to build your confidence on.

Now that you've got your head right :P it's time to start thinking about your legs.

My advice is that you need to focus on gettign your legs feeling really fresh. IMHO it is always better to feel under cooked than over cooked. How you do this depends on lots of things, including your age (36), the amount of mileage you regularly run (base of 40-60k/week for few years gradually upped to 70k average since march and 80-90k/week for last 12 weeks with odd rest week of 60k)and what type of runner you are (have done better at shorter distances 5k pb 17.52 this year, 10k pb 39.42 last year, havent broken 40 this year!) . But bear in mind that there is very little you can do to make yourself fitter between now and your race.

My approach is now to take the foot right off the gas in training before a key target race. My objective for an A goal race is to stand on the start line with my legs literally begging me to take them out for a hard, fast run!

If you can get yourself to this point (how you get there is really up to you), and you have a great training plan in the bank (which seems to be the case) you will do well for sure.

And don't forget to report back!

Thanks wrstan, I know where to go to now if I need a sports psychologist! If I could run the race in my mind now id be a shoe in for the rio olympics.:)
Although you have put the pressure right back on with your last comment!;)
I will spill the beans either way!

Rantan

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

What makes you think he/she is over-trained? The road to a good half marathon should include lots of long, hard and mileage. Perhaps the OP is over-trained, but it is impossible for you or I to diagnose the condition based on the 250 word initial post. My personal bug-bear is that the solution to any tough session is automatically to 'take a few days off', when in fact, the solution should be to 'self-diagnose' and act accordingly. Sometimes doing nothing isn't the right answer.

flip..sorry...just offering an opinion, based on the OPs words, he said he felt stale and had no zip in his legs....following longer and harder training thatn he had done previously..

by the way I never suggested "doing nothing" as a solution. you are putting words in my mouth - my only suggestion was maybe an extra day or twos rest during taper.

conavitzky

Rantan wrote: »

conavitzky wrote: »

Folks,
, long tempo runs, PHMP miles, hard hills etc. over 10 week period having upped my mileage slightly from good base of training.

I'd say you are over trained - my half PB is 95 so maybe Im not the best to advise but on teh face of it I would take an extra couple of days rest in your taper...get a rub down whatever....

I dont think Im overtrained Rantan. The mood is good, eating well, sleeping well. Rub down planned this evening already to iron out few niggles! I will take anyones advice! At least I will have a pb for this one as long as I finish....

Rantan

cheers..good luck on teh day!,

you're prob just going taper crazy :eek:!!

wrstan

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

My personal bug-bear is that the solution to any tough session is automatically to 'take a few days off', when in fact, the solution should be to 'self-diagnose' and act accordingly. Sometimes doing nothing isn't the right answer.

I don't interpret any of the posts saying anything as simplistic as take a few days off because you've had a tough session, the views seem to me to be in specific relation to preparation for a race and are all fairly heavily caveated, infact the views are much closer to 'self-diagnose' and act accordingly!

And to be fair the OP did ask "Any thoughts?"

ecoli

2 weeks out from a goal race after coming off a solid training block sounds like you are in a good position going into a taper just to freshen up the legs.

In the build up to the race don't take days off but just give yourself a bit of reduced volume just to freshen them up.

One session will not make or break a race always look at your training from an overall perspective. You may lack a bit of speed but unless you are training for 800/1500 then strength will play the predominant roll and 6*1 mile @ 10k pace off that recovery shows that the strength is there and that that 10k will be revised soon (even if the reps were a little slower). The legs are probably just heavy from the cumulative training which is normal

Krusty_Clown

Rantan wrote: »

flip..sorry...just offering an opinion, based on the OPs words, he said he felt stale and had no zip in his legs....following longer and harder training thatn he had done previously..

by the way I never suggested "doing nothing" as a solution. you are putting words in my mouth - my only suggestion was maybe an extra day or twos rest during taper.

My personal bug-bear is more of a general comment rather than a response to your post (or wrstan's) and certainly was not meant to come across as a rant, so don't feel offended!

I just reckon (and this is my opinion), that when you are knocking out 2-3 quality sessions per week as part of a high mileage plan, some of 'em are not going to go to plan. Some of 'em may result in a mini-implosion and dent your confidence. If you don't have the tell-tale signs of over-training, I reckon the best thing to do is make sure that you're better prepared and have a training success the next time you hit the track/road, to get your confidence back. If taking a couple of days off (and I know you didn't suggest this) becomes the default reaction, then you won't necessarily be in a better position the next time you have a tough session in the schedule.

PVincent

How you deal with a poor or less than good session is purely down to phycology. In any sport you have to park the bad stuff( learn from it if you can) and move on. As Krusty says, one bad session is no reason to panic or worry. Two in a row may not even be a problem . There are so many things that can affect why we have bad sessions from stress to a poor nights sleep, poor eating choices on the day or the day before, etc etc ( you know the issues that can affect you). As krust says, park it , you have the training done. Trust in YOU , don't beat up YOU.

rom

This is why you need a detailed training log so you can look back and see that you are the same runner as you were 3 weeks ago.

conavitzky

conavitzky wrote: »

Folks,
Have any of ye in the last two weeks before a key race felt your training getting stale, felt no zip in your legs and just started doubting yourself in general.
I have a half coming up in two weeks and have put in good solid training. Lots of miles, long tempo runs, PHMP miles, hard hills etc. over 10 week period having upped my mileage slightly from good base of training.
I went out last night for my last hard session before the race and did 2 miles w/u, 6 x 1 miles @ 10k pace (have been doing longer intervals at slightly faster than PHMP up til now (5-6 x 3k) - dont know why I changed last night!) with 3mins rest and 2 mile w/d.
Now before I started my half training I was rattling off 4-5 x 1 mile intervals at 5mins 45 secs. Last night I felt like I was really working to get my reps done between 5-55 and 6-05 and felt no zip.
The only faster stuff I have done recently was two sessions of 8x800m at 5k pace approx 4 weeks ago.
Is it the case that when you are training for a longer distances that you lose some speed but have greater endurance over slightly slower speeds.
I am hoping that the legs freshen up in the next few weeks/days! Any thoughts?

Well since my confidence shattering session of Tuesday night I have done two sessions.
On Wednesday I did 8k easy at 5.10/k at lunch. The legs were dead and only started to come around towards the end. That evening I went for a rubdown. Had a few knots in my calves and my left hipflexor was welded tight. I think it was badly needed.
Tonight I was in doubt as to what to do. I had planned to do 2mile w/u, 3x2 mile, 2 mile w/d.
It was a brutal windy night but I felt good enough doing the intervals and ended up doing 4x2. Splits were (6.36, 6.30) (6.26,6.22) (6.27,6.30) (6.29,6.25). Was happy enough with the nights work. Had to have a talk to myself not to do a 5th interval. Legs felt fresh and generally felt re-invigorated.
Crisis of confidence over for now! Thanks to everyone for your tuppenceworth.

conavitzky

wrstan wrote: »

Here's my t'pence worth:

- focus on the fact that you have a really solid training behind you - that's in the bank now and nothing can take it away
- go back through your training log and pick out some killer sessions that were really tough but made you feel great, the one's where you were really motoring, the intensity was up, but you felt smooth and comfortable, where you really enjoyed the feeling of running hard and fast
- Think through every detail of those sessions, especially how you felt about them and why you felt like that, especially the sense of satisfaction you felt after them - they're in the bank too!

That is a now great foundation to build your confidence on.

Now that you've got your head right :P it's time to start thinking about your legs.

My advice is that you need to focus on gettign your legs feeling really fresh. IMHO it is always better to feel under cooked than over cooked. How you do this depends on lots of things, including your age, the amount of mileage you regularly run and what type of runner you are. But bear in mind that there is very little you can do to make yourself fitter between now and your race.

My approach is now to take the foot right off the gas in training before a key target race. My objective for an A goal race is to stand on the start line with my legs literally begging me to take them out for a hard, fast run!

If you can get yourself to this point (how you get there is really up to you), and you have a great training plan in the bank (which seems to be the case) you will do well for sure.

And don't forget to report back!

Well Wrstan, Rantan, Clown, Ecoli just reporting back. Did the half in 1-29-45. Goal at start was to beat 1-30 but as training progressed was hoping to be sub 1-27 or possibly better. As it turned out on the day I was delighted to break 1-30. A few things (excuses!) that went against me on the day were. 21 degree heat. Terrible 2 lap course that had a few 180 degree cone turns.

I went out steady (maybe too steady! - note to self for 2nd HM) Went through first 10k in 41.38, picked up the pace between 10-16k and felt very strong (possibly rookie mistake number 2!). Turned back into the breeze and died a death between 17-20k did 4k in around 4-25 average with 19th k @4-38. Lungs were fine but legs felt shot! Picked it up from here after having a big argument with myself and did a quick last k. Passed 4 in the final 450m @3-35pace.
Positives to take - passed approx. 20 runners during race as it settled down and was only passed by one.

Lessons learned for again - respect the distance and start more conservatively. racing 4-05/k for first 5 k looking back now probably a mistake.
Run the middle section more steady rather than attack.
Adjust expectations for hot weather.
Need to develop more mental toughness for final third!

Raced again yesterday (only second race in two months) in local 10k. Managed to knock 90 secs of my 10k pb to finish in 38.23. The bit of disappointment I felt from last weekend was put to bed yesterday. Only my second time under 40 mins. All the longer HM specific training defo made me stronger. Went through 5k in 20 mins and pushed on to do second 5k in 18.23. Very happy to finish road season with Pb's at every distance for the year (Ok Hm was my first one so was going to be PB as long as I finished!)
Thanks for all great advice and reassurance here. Brilliant addictive viewing!

PVincent

The power of the mind never ceases to amaze people. Of all the lessons you learnt from this experience , this is the one that will serve you well in the years of running ahead. There will of course be the odd crisis of confidence but memories like the positive outcomes from these last two races will be firmly banked and recalled when needed. Well done .

Rantan

well done - thats a great time! and your first HM too..I'm looking to maybe get to 90mins or close for waterford later this year so will take all the leasons you've learned on board!