Water Main Question

reilig

It's 15 years since i worked with water mains and i used to know them like the back of my hand. I recently inherited the caretaker job for our small group water scheme which is fed from the council main. We have a 4 inch pipe as a main line and we have saddles of 1", 3/4" or 1/2" off that and in recent weeks, it is obvious that we have a leak or that the private scheme adjoining ours is "borrowing" water from us. The scheme is old and has no meters other than the main meter where we T off the council main.

I have spent several weeks searching for the leak and last night I think I found it. It's at the very end of the 4" line. There is a small flow of water constantly coming up through a valve concrete chamber.

Here's where the confusion lies. The last caretaker of the scheme is adamant that this chamber that is leaking used to contain a scour valve but this was swapped out for a stop valve a number of years ago to prevent water from flowing into the neighbouring scheme.

The valve has been tampered with by someone. The nut on the top of it for turning it on and off has been removed.

Can anyone tell me what direction a valve like this should be turned in order to turn it off??

My instinct tells me that its clockwise for off and anti-clockwise for on. When I turn it clockwise, it sounds as if I am building up pressure in the line and closing it. however, after a few seconds, a load of water comes up through the chamber at high speed and about 5 meters back up the line, clean water can be seen coming up through the ground. I suspect that the valve has been open all of the time and when i close it, the pressure builds and the water flows out even more through the leak in the pipe.

Is there any possibility that it could be anti-clockwise for off and that I am mistaken???

Sharpshooter82

you sound about right there reilig. im not an expert by any means but the auld way of righty tighty and lefty loosey seems to be the case there esp when the water comes up through the ground after the pressure builds up. Thats a sure sign that its closed. American threads are the only ones that tighten to the left to my knowledge.
The nut being removed seems a little odd to me aswell, i wonder did the neighbours to a midnight commando raid on that valve or something

reilig

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

you sound about right there reilig. im not an expert by any means but the auld way of righty tighty and lefty loosey seems to be the case there esp when the water comes up through the ground after the pressure builds up. Thats a sure sign that its closed. American threads are the only ones that tighten to the left to my knowledge.
The nut being removed seems a little odd to me aswell, i wonder did the neighbours to a midnight commando raid on that valve or something

We have to pay for anything that we use above our allowance so water theft is possible.

bbam

Your right on the direction to close/ open.
I'd say someone did an on the fly connection attempt and maybe it didn't go too well.
Sounds like you need to strip back the line and then shut the valve and see what's happening.
Some of these old schemes are a bit crazy, and that's being kind.

Sharpshooter82

The water rising looks like your problem. see if you can patch that up and see how it goes but you def turned the valve off and built pressure if its rising through the ground. could you remove the valve altogether and just block off the end of the pipe completely

Lu Tze

I've come across anticlockwise closing valves in Ireland before, so it could well be one.

reilig

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

The water rising looks like your problem. see if you can patch that up and see how it goes but you def turned the valve off and built pressure if its rising through the ground. could you remove the valve altogether and just block off the end of the pipe completely

That's the plan. Not my job though. Contractor is coming in to do it.

Kevhog1988

i dpnt know if you have them in ireland but in the uk we use a repair seal called a band seal which should be fine to stop the leak. Also maybe turn off the water at the entry to the scheme and then take a look at the valve?? Pics may help??

reilig

Lu Tze wrote: »

I've come across anticlockwise closing valves in Ireland before, so it could well be one.

I have seen them too, but they were on schemes greater than 20 years old. This one was installed 3 or 4 years ago.

grazeaway

we had to put in one of these in work a few months ago, might be of use for you.

reilig

theemigrant wrote: »

i dpnt know if you have them in ireland but in the uk we use a repair seal called a band seal which should be fine to stop the leak. Also maybe turn off the water at the entry to the scheme and then take a look at the valve?? Pics may help??

We have band seals here too. I think that the best course of action is to cut off the pipe at the leak and just put a stopper on it which might save future conflict!

razor8

Lu Tze wrote: »

I've come across anticlockwise closing valves in Ireland before, so it could well be one.

Agreed seen them too, cause a lot of head scratching

longgonesilver

As you have already worked out the pressure rises when you close the valve and the leak gets worse. There must be a considerable leak/water usage beyond the valve. The pipe is leaking the valve is also damaged. When the contractor is there replace the valve with a lockable one, close it and see who turns up looking for water as their tap is gone dry.

lakill Farm

Reilig, cousin of mine is rep with IPL and they do all them values and use to be with Philmac (Polygrip). They do all them values and im sure he could set you right. Ill send you his number and email. He is based just outside mullingar so maybe if you had a picture he could advice.

poor farmer

Lu Tze wrote: »

I've come across anticlockwise closing valves in Ireland before, so it could well be one.

Same here ,I have seen both types on the same scheme.