Now back in Ireland, $10,000 loan in Australia—Advice Needed!

Sharpie1

Dear Boardsie’s,

I am writing as I am seeking your advice. I returned home from Australia four months ago. During my stay there, I took out a $10,000 loan. I was working full time, had 2 years remaining on the visa and I had the loan approved the next day.

At the time, I was on a 457 defacto spouse sponsorship visa and unfortunately my partners employment came to an end due to the economic down turn in specific industries and trades in Western Australia and this marked the end of our visa.

Since I returned to Ireland, I have not secured employment and I am living off my savings. As I was out of the country for 26 months I am not entitled to social welfare due to the habitual residence clause. I am now finding it extremely difficult to meet the demands of my loan back in Australia as my savings are running low and I have to bear the cost of general day to day expenses.

With so many people from Ireland going to Australia in search of work I am sure that there is somebody out there that this has happened to so I would really appreciate your advice. Very soon I will no money left to meet the repayments. This is a tough and stressful situation.

Is there any way that this can affect my credit rating here in Ireland? I do not intend on ever returning to Australia not even for a holiday. I really feel so anxious as I feel that this may one day catch up with me. Can the banks in Aus find me here in Ireland?

Due to unforeseen circumstances in Australia I had to get this loan but I just feel that it is hanging over me.

As it is such a low amount on the scale of things, will the Australian bank just write it off as bad debt? I presume they have no liaisons in Ireland that can recover the debt.

I welcome your opinions and thoughts.

Many thanks in advance,
Sharpie1

lab man

have you much to pay shapie

Peregrinus

Sharpie1 wrote: »

Can the banks in Aus find me here in Ireland?

Legally, yes, they can. And they can sue you. Whether they will or not is another matter. Probably not, for $10,000.

There is a second potential legal problem, which is that if you are ever seeking credit or a financial facility in Ireland, you may be called upon to say that you have no unsatisfied debts, and/or that you have never defaulted on a loan, or something of that kind. If you are dishonest in your answer, that’s a criminal offence, and quite a serious one - a much, much bigger issue for you than the initial problem of simply not having paid your debt. And the victim is the Irish bank to whom you have lied, not the Australian bank that you failed to pay, so if this comes to the bank’s notice, they could very well take action.

Now, it’s perhaps not very likely to come to the Irish bank’s notice that you defaulted on your Australian debt, and even if it does they may take no action unless you have also defaulted on your obligation to them. But, still, it’s a complicating factor.

Both to keep your options open with regard to returning to Australia, and to set your mind at rest about a default ever turning up on your Irish credit rating or causing you disclosure problems with an Irish loan, or simply to have the satisfaction of settling your debts rather than running away from them, you could contact your Australian bank and explain your situation, and ask for accommodation such as the extension of the loan and the acceptance of a fairly low payment until your financial circumstances improve. As long as you’re dealing with the bank, you’re not defaulting.

lab man

sorry , left to pay sharpie

john.co

I can't offer much advice on the legal/loan aspect of your situation but if I were you, I'd check out your social welfare entitlements again - there is increased focus on this "habitual residency" clause denying returning Irish emigrants access to social welfare.There's more to it than just flat out denying social welfare if you haven't been resident in Ireland for the past two years or whatever - if you've returned to live in Ireland permanently and can prove Ireland is now your main 'centre of interest' then you can be considered 'habitually resident in the state'.
I know there's been a few articles and commentaries about this recently, but can't find any offhand - but check out this page on Citizen's Information website as a start and get your situation reviewed:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/social_assistance_payments/residency_requirements_for_social_assistance_in_ireland.html

Batgurl

What happened the 10k? Can't you sell whatever asset you purchased to make the repayments?

I wouldn't exactly call $10k an insignificant sum of money.

An AU bank are currently pursuing someone I know for $1k in the UK...

Contact them, tell them your situation and organise smaller repayments over a longer term.

At the end of the day, you took their money. It is only fair you pay them back.

Can't you use your tax return/super refund to offset part of it?

Sharpie1

Dear associates,

Many thanks for your replies.

Iab man- I currently owe a little over $8000 so the bulk of the loan is still outstanding

Peregrinus- Your reply was great. I dread to think of being sued! If it came to it, I would have no money to give them hence why I can’t meet the repayments with the loan but as you said they probably wouldn’t bother for such a low amount. Legal fees would more than likely outweigh the sum owed. I will contact the bank and tell them the situation and see what they come back with. My ideal situation is that the bank writes of this debt and I hear no more about it, but unfortunately I know that is not how it works.

John.co- Thank you for your informative reply. I have read the information on the citizen information website and it was very beneficial and worthwhile. I went into my social welfare office when I came home and the agent advised me that I was not eligible for anything because I was out of the country for 2 consecutive years but clearly the information on the website says otherwise. I am also aware that each individuals application in social welfare is on the discretion of the officer so maybe this man was having a bad day or just rude or both. I will go back into the office and follow up with this, I won’t give up on getting my entitlements. Prior to going to Australia I was on job seekers allowance which stole my sole so I decided to make the move to Australia to gain experience in my area.

Is there anyone who has been in this situation years ago and lived to tell the tale of what happened as time went on?

Sharpie1

Dear Batgurl,

Many thanks for your insight. Unfortunately there is no asset, I incurred medical expenses. You are right, 10k is not an insignificant sum of money but I am comparing that amount to what I could have got! I was surprised to read that a bank is pursuing someone for 1k, I wonder how they got in contact with that person having left the country?!

Peregrinus

Banks have pretty good access to international information-sharing networks; it's generally in their interests to do so. Even without access to specialist networks, locating somebody who isn't trying to hide is not very difficult. And of course tracing a former customer is easier than tracing a complete stranger, because you have a lot of information about them, e.g. the name and address of the bank to which they transferred their closing balance.

I'm not surprised that the bank was able to trace their former customer in the UK. I am surprised that they would bother doing so for as little as $1,000; there must be more at stake in the case than simply the amount of the debt.

The Aussie

Is the bill with Visa?

If so, they are Global.

Sharpie1

Peregrinus- Good point. Whilst I was over in Australia I was sending money home regularly to an Irish bank so they would have those records. I am as surprised as you are that they would follow up $1000 so it doesn’t really give me much hope of getting away with this Scott free!!!

The Aussie- My Aus bankcard has a MasterCard symbol but no this is not a credit card debt. I think all bank cards these days are debit cards.

Batgurl

Sharpie1 wrote: »

I am as surprised as you are that they would follow up $1000 so it doesn’t really give me much hope of getting away

I'm guessing she just got a b*tch of an underwriter assigned to her account.

In fairness, she took the loan knowing she would be leaving in a couple of weeks and wanted a little extra coin for doing the East Coast so its her own fault.

But I have heard of others being chased for small amounts also (not necessarily banks but ATO, phone companies etc). It seems to be coming more common.

sin_city

Sort out a payment plan with them of a small amount. Say 5 euros a week. If they don't take that, threaten non-payment. They'll take it.

No6

Sharpie

Have you reclaimed any of your Australian tax, and as you have left for good I believe you can get some of your super back (or your partners)

ifeelill

Have you thought of declaring bankruptcy ?

Cushie Butterfield

My advice is for you to contact the lender by letter. Acknowledge the debt. Explain the circumstances relating to you losing your right to remain in Australia & your difficulty in receiving an unemployment payment so far since you returned. Assure them that you have every intention of repaying the debt as soon as you gain employment. Ask them nicely if they would consider freezing all interest, fees & charges for the time being. Offer to pay a regular nominal sum for six months, after which time you will update them on your financial situation at that time.

Hopefully you will be able to get a job in the near future. As regards social welfare, did you actually submit an application for a jobseeker's payment? If not you should do so ASAP. If you are refused you can go through the appeals processes. As has been mentioned already on the thread, it's not so much the two years out of the country aspect but moreso the fact that Ireland is now your main centre of interest. You have stated that you will never return to Australia, so if that's the case then you should be highlighting this fact to social welfare. I wouldn't be relying on purely the say so of an employee at an enquiries desk. Even if you are not entitled you should still be signing on for credited contributions in order to preserve your PRSI record for the future.

Ireland has a bilateral arrangement with Australia regarding social insurance credits, so your time being employed & paying social insurance in Australia can be added to your record here, which, again could be of benefit to you in years to come, so you should look into signing on for credits anyway, even if you are refused a jobseeker's payment.

I realise that this debt isn't very high on your list of priorities at the moment, but life is strange - sometimes things can come back to bite you in the face, & it would be a shame to ruin any future opportunities that might present themselves to you in the future.

res ipsa

Try MABS for advice on drafting a letter to the bank.

Mr Jake

Sharpie1 wrote: »

Dear Boardsie’s,

I am writing as I am seeking your advice. I returned home from Australia four months ago. During my stay there, I took out a $10,000 loan. I was working full time, had 2 years remaining on the visa and I had the loan approved the next day.

At the time, I was on a 457 defacto spouse sponsorship visa and unfortunately my partners employment came to an end due to the economic down turn in specific industries and trades in Western Australia and this marked the end of our visa.

Since I returned to Ireland, I have not secured employment and I am living off my savings. As I was out of the country for 26 months I am not entitled to social welfare due to the habitual residence clause. I am now finding it extremely difficult to meet the demands of my loan back in Australia as my savings are running low and I have to bear the cost of general day to day expenses.

With so many people from Ireland going to Australia in search of work I am sure that there is somebody out there that this has happened to so I would really appreciate your advice. Very soon I will no money left to meet the repayments. This is a tough and stressful situation.

Is there any way that this can affect my credit rating here in Ireland? I do not intend on ever returning to Australia not even for a holiday. I really feel so anxious as I feel that this may one day catch up with me. Can the banks in Aus find me here in Ireland?

Due to unforeseen circumstances in Australia I had to get this loan but I just feel that it is hanging over me.

As it is such a low amount on the scale of things, will the Australian bank just write it off as bad debt? I presume they have no liaisons in Ireland that can recover the debt.

I welcome your opinions and thoughts.

Many thanks in advance,
Sharpie1

Ignore it. No way they will chase for it here. They can afford it. All banks are scum anyway

danotroy

Mr Jake wrote: »

Ignore it. No way they will chase for it here. They can afford it. All banks are scum anyway

Banks can and will Chase loans. A likely scenario is that the Australian bank would sell the debt to an Irish debt collector.

The Aussie

Mr Jake wrote: »

Ignore it. No way they will chase for it here. They can afford it.

Worst advice so far, congratulations...
As said above they can and will go after their money, if they have your old address here in Ireland, an Irish Debt Collector will find your new one.

Mr Jake wrote: »

All banks are scum anyway

But good enough to go to in the first place for money.

Are you not acting worse by advising defaulting, what's worse than Scum???

rugbyman

I would tend to agree with mr Jake, I would say that most people would, but theres a fair few ,"hell rub it in to you types " around

The irish debt collector who could get money off an irish person who HAS NO INCOME, NOT EVEN S.W. would be some guy.

The op may well get a job rather than s.w , and become targetable by the financial world, but a deal could be done for a score a week. Banks know of the old blood from a stone rule, they will go some of the road in trying, and they are right to do so.......
Certainly at this moment, they, the bank would be at nothing , chasing someone who is not even getting s.w.

Last comment though, the current savings referred are really the banks money., even if it was taken from a different pocket, or was REALLY saved from income

Mr Jake

danotroy wrote: »

Banks can and will Chase loans. A likely scenario is that the Australian bank would sell the debt to an Irish debt collector.

That's bull and you know it

rugbyman

Looking back over this thread Cushies advice is spot on.

Batgurl

Mr Jake wrote: »

That's bull and you know it

Shall I let my mate know that the letters and calls she is receiving are a figament of her imagination? After all Mr Jake couldn't possibly be wrong!?!

+1 on Cushies advice.

Mr Jake

Batgurl wrote: »

Shall I let my mate know that the letters and calls she is receiving are a figament of her imagination? After all Mr Jake couldn't possibly be wrong!?!

+1 on Cushies advice.

<snip by mod>

hfallada

OP as far as I know the only credit rating banks use in Ireland is ICB which is based in Ireland and only a certain amount of financial institutions here report credit defaults. In other words the Irish banks probably won't know about a defaulted foreign loan as it wasn't reported to ICB.

If the loan in oz was unsecured, I would tell the banks to go **** themselves. I know it's probably not the right thing to do. But when you give out loans, you take into account the risk of defaults and banks can't expect 100% of their customers to pay. If you really wanted to pay the loan back. I would tell the bank are in Ireland, with no savings or source of income. And that you want a write down of 80-90% and call the loan finished. But I would try not to pay the loan. The bank should have understood the risk of giving a loan to a non national on a short term visa

danotroy

Im going through something similar at the moment albeit in the opposite direction. I took out a loan for 13,000 with an Irish bank in 2008. I regularly missed payments as I could not find a job but I did manage to keep paying off bits and pieces. I moved to Oz in november 2011 and by august 2012 I was able to send home 4000 euros which brought my debt down to about 7500 euros. However since then I have not paid a cent against the loan. I was being naive in thinking that I could avoid it. Three weeks ago I received correspondence to my home address and my last known address from an international debt collector. The bank knew I was out of ireland so they appointed this specific debt collector. To cut a long story short I decided to tell the debt collector I was dealing with the bank and I pleaded with the bank to let me pay them directly. They refused my pleas numerous times until I called and acted in a professional manner and stated that I wanted to clear the loan immediately and if I could do this how much would I have to pay. On the spot the bank offered me 30% off my loan and with this admission that they would and could accept money off me I negotiated a lump sum payment and a payment plan over the next 24 months. I did not receive the 30% discount as I was not paying that large a sum upfront but I did get a good deal (16.5% off with interest frozen). When talking with the debt collector he said that my credit rating in Ireland is shot but if the bank sold the entire debt to him it could affect my credit rating where ever he operated. I'm not to sure if this is the truth but it sure did make me settle with the bank asap.

In short my advice would be to much akin to Cushies. Talk to the bank explain your situation, tell them you fully acknowledge the debt and you are willing to pay when you can. also don't let SW screw you around they are merely trying to dodge paying you under that habitual stipulation.

kfc1210

Here are some actual facts from my solicitor, not fears or pub stories....

Your credit rating in Ireland will not be affected by Australian credit, they are calculated on different basis and dont transfer - it would not be accurate, different economies and all that.
You may be asked did you default on a loan if your going for one in Ireland, that answer is up to you.
Go to Australian and try buy a house when you land with 5 years savings in Ireland, it wont happen no credit score same works in reverse.

It is not a criminal offence (relating to credit cards) but a civil one, if you end up in court in Ireland for it you will get an installment order e.g. 100 per month for 10 years. You will have no criminal record.
Someone said 5 per week, thats crazy sure it would cost that to transfer it every week...

There is statute barred for debt in Oz 5 - 7 years depending on whats owed, if you pass this your grand its written off, but if you admit to it in year 5 it starts again. That includes responding to an email anything really.

What can a debt collector do, send threating letters... ring your mobile....

Curious about your medical expenses, you are covered by the reciprocal care agreement between Ireland and Oz so you should no bills.
The residency qualification information you were given is wrong, its all about your intention to stay and not having property etc in another country. If you are Irish you will get it