Where to go for a PPL?

rat_race

Hi all -- surprised there's no sticky on this, but I am looking for advice/tips on the places to go to earn a PPL, for a small plane like a Cessna. Purely for self-development and because I love learning to tackle complicated machines.

I've no aviation related qualifications on paper; I'm a software engineer with an interest in engines & engineering, and I've always wanted to learn to fly.

So, any tips/recommendations on schools abroad that you can attend to fast-track the process? What type of license should an Irish guy planning to stay in Ireland, or at least Europe, be aiming for? And roughly how long does it take? Any other general recommendations?

I'd be willing to spend up to 20k max on it, including accomodation, etc. I think. Is that doable? But anymore than that and I would probably give up the idea...

I'd like to do the training/exams in as short a period as possible. No kids/wife/commitments, so can focus 100%. I could leave Ireland for up to 6 weeks.

I live in Ireland. My goal is to obtain a PPL and fly 4-5 times a year, or something, by renting a plane (I presume that is possible). I've done very little research, so maybe that is totally unrealistic. Any pointers in the right direction greatly appreciated.


Thank you.


EDIT: Sorry, my bad -- there is a sticky on this topic (thought maybe not about going abroad). Reading now...

alphaLaura

Hi rat_race, where are you based in Ireland?

rat_race

Living in Dublin City, originally from Wicklow Town!

lomb

Weston or preferably the Ulster Flying Club in Belfast. Only 2 hours from Dublin, 4 -5 newish servicable aircraft so no down time, very well organised, nice view of the Lough, youll never get lost on solo nav with the terrain features, tight circuits with several crossed runways so you will pick up the basics very quickly (no where else in Ireland can say that) and more importantly much more progressive and more positive with great instructors . You could do it in 4-5 weeks if you can fly most days there. With the winter now setting in may be a good time as you should be able to learn circuits now as the cloudbase is usually above 1000ft moving on to navigation, solo nav and test in the early Spring. Even in the worst months they statistically fly half the month.
Will cost 45x180 stg +allow another 500 for kit , 500 for ground exams and another 1k for extra tuition /test in the Cessna 172=12k euros.

basill

Rat I am a commercial pilot so haven't done any single engine GA stuff in years but a couple of things from your post stick out for me.

Your goal is to do a PPL but you want to fly only 4-5 times a year. I think you need to rethink your strategy for a number of reasons. Firstly the cost of flying in a club environment in Ireland is prohibitively expensive. Particularly if you only want to fly so little. There will no doubt be annual membership fees which spread out over only a handful of flights will make the effective hourly rate huge. As it is you are looking at something like €200 an hr to hire a beaten up warrior or Cessna before membership fees. The second reason is safety related. With the best will in the world the irish weather will conspire against you and you will only be rated to fly in vmc. Whilst you might plan to fly 4-5 times a year you might find that half of your flights are scrapped either due to weather or an aircraft not being available to hire. That will mean your currency drops and you might even find you lose confidence to get up in the air without an instructor (expensive).

With a brand new license to thrill your first goal should be to consolidate your training. Although I was focused on gaining my commercial licences so had very different goals to yourself I was fortunate enough to get over to the US and rent an aircraft early in my training. The US makes everything so simple. I would plan cross countries and bash circuits at various airports with no one else around. I lost count of the number of touch and goes I did. Must have been hundreds in the end. Unfortunately this option is probably not available without significant cost in Ireland as you tend to have to pay for everything.

Other challenges you will face are the training to standard requirements when you come back from the US or whereever it is you plan on dong your initial license. No club will let you just hop into their aircraft with your shiny new license until they have checked you out and shown you the local area.

You might find that joining a group is a better option although some will have minimum hours requirements. Other options are small flexwing or microlights.

There are a huge number of people that pass a PPL but are lost to the GA community as they allow the "barriers" i described above to get in their way and currency slips. Then it becomes ever more difficult to get back up to speed and more costly.

You might want to read up the stickies on the pprune website as the is a ton of information on that website. Good luck with what you decide.

lomb

Someone up in the UFC said 96% of PPL holders never renewed their licenses. Cost/ confidence seems to be the main barrier. Im thinking of buying a microlight shortly as I cannot see myself paying 200 euros an hour in the future. I dont mind paying for the PPL and will in due course do a multi IR in the States i but thats only for fun and again dont mind paying but in reality long term the cost takes the joy out of it frankly.
Someone I know who keeps it up has 800 single engine hours so that would be 160000 euros. Needless to say he is better paid than most but few have the means and will to keep it up. Even commercial pilots who are no longer paid to do it generally dont keep it up, what does that say?

basill

A instructor once told me that for many it was the challenge of passing the PPL that attracted many to the course. Once that is achieved there is nothing left for so people. Different strokes and all that I guess.

mickwaffle

I'm also thinking of doing a PPL in weston, has any got any suggestions on what flying school to use? I'm looking at flightwise of National flight centre.

Roblestone

mickwaffle wrote: »

I'm also thinking of doing a PPL in weston, has any got any suggestions on what flying school to use? I'm looking at flightwise of National flight centre.

Do a search of the first school you mentioned in the boards search box. A huge amount of people had problems with them getting a booking to redeem vouchers they bought. The so called manager was a rude pr**k when I was trying to redeem mine and promised the sun moon and stars, but never delivered. In my opinion I would steer clear of them completely. Read reviews here and on their Facebook page and decide for yourself.

NFC are good and are the biggest down there, which is good for availability. Most of the instructors are sound and they can bring you from 0 hours to being ready for the airlines if that's what your aim is. They have recently increased their prices though and it is now the most expensive down there at ~€245 an hour for a c152. It's ridiculous if you ask me I don't know what reason they can justify a ~€50 increase other than greed. I will finish my PPL there as I am nearly half way through it and then I'll look elsewhere. They have seemed to change from been a tight-knit school with good prices and connections with airlines to a greedy pilot factory and I reckon it will effect them in the long run.

There are two other schools there that teach PPL, I have no real experience with them but from what I have heard they are both very good, nice aircraft, sound instructors and well priced. They are East Coast Flight Training and Skyways Aviation. Either of them would be my first choice if I was to start again, followed by NFC and I would rather go fly a kite than go with the other crowd you mentioned.

Best thing to do is take a trip down to Weston one day and ask for a look around each school, meet the instructors and tell them your plans. You should have a fair idea what school is for you after seeing all of them. When you have one picked do an introductory flight and see how you like it. Best of luck with it.

phonypony

€245 for an hour in a C152 is fairly disgusting for PPL training alright. There's a club there with voluntary instructors; there's a membership fee involved but an hour in your logbook on a C172 (not including membership or landing) will cost you €130. Check Weston's 'Flight Schools' webpage.

Xpro

phonypony wrote: »

€245 for an hour in a C152 is fairly disgusting for PPL training alright. There's a club there with voluntary instructors; there's a membership fee involved but an hour in your logbook on a C172 (not including membership or landing) will cost you €130. Check Weston's 'Flight Schools' webpage.

€245 per hour is off the richter scale big time.:(


Most flying clubs in Ireland charge around 120 to 180 euros per hour, which is cheap if you fly a lot and that will justify the monthly membership fees, but without exaggeration, expect at least 2+ years to finish your PPL when doing it that way. Limited instructors, part timers and you only fly when they are available.

Friend of mine is flying in one of the clubs, SPL student and just over 2 years at it. His head is fairly wrecked that is taking him so long, but thats the pros and cons of it.

And Flightwise, they do have a pretty bad feedback in relation to their vouchers and intro flights, but if you enrol in their PPL training as a full time student, they have very good results and no problems that way. You fly when you book in and no questions asked. Im sure any of their ex-ppl students will confirm that.

Ps: I forgot to add, US will be the cheapest place to obtain your ppl. Even with all the factors included (transport,accommodation, course fees, etc) it still works out to be the cheapest place to go. Thats providing you can take a few weeks off and have sufficient funds to do it in one go.

Roblestone

+1 on the flying club. If you just wanted a PPL for enjoyment purposes and didn't plan on going further a flying club is really good. As Xpro mentioned it can take longer, but it is a more friendly/sociable and relaxed environment and You will get to ride shotgun for free on a lot of flights and see some cool airfields that flight schools don't even know about.

Yeah NFC are charging €195 p/h solo, that's how much dual instruction was when I started my PPL. It's pure greed really.

If Flightwise treat their students half as bad as they do their voucher customers I would stay well away. I just had terrible experience with them and I am definitely not the only one, they have seemed to, quote, "inadvertently deleted" the posts from people complaining on their Facebook about the treatment received. Each to their own, but if you want my 2 cents... Stay away.

As mentioned above if you can get time to go to the states that's the cheapest option, a lot of schools over there are EASA approved so no need for conversions etc. when you arrive home. It will be intense training and may be less enjoyable that doing a lesson a week here, but you could be over and back in 2-3 weeks with your license in hand.

That skyways place in weston is €185ph dual and €160ph solo... Pretty good rates for a flight school.

Xpro

Thats a pretty good price for Skyways aviation.

Anyone know how much Atlantic in Cork charge?

Roblestone

Xpro wrote: »

Thats a pretty good price for Skyways aviation.

Anyone know how much Atlantic in Cork charge?

Researched them about 6 months ago and their prices were €198 for C172 and €157 for hour building in the Grob.

Catspaw

Excellent instructors in the air and the Ground School. Thoroughly recommmend them

logie101

Can anyone please clarify the prices with NFC on a C152.

I thought they are €187 solo and €217 under instruction. (Inclusive of landing fee)

Surely they haven't been increased again???

Skyways is a lot cheaper but make sure and add on the landing fee.

No doubt flying at a club or buying hours is cheaper.

Roblestone

logie101 wrote: »

Can anyone please clarify the prices with NFC on a C152.

I thought they are €187 solo and €217 under instruction. (Inclusive of landing fee)

Surely they haven't been increased again???

Skyways is a lot cheaper but make sure and add on the landing fee.

No doubt flying at a club or buying hours is cheaper.

NFC's price is NOT inclusive of landing fees and you are correct with your prices, I just picked up the most recent receipt I could find and it was €246, it actually included touch and go's on that day so that's how it was up from €217.

€217 is still very expensive for a c152!

Nforce

Xpro wrote: »

Ps: I forgot to add, US will be the cheapest place to obtain your ppl. Even with all the factors included (transport,accommodation, course fees, etc) it still works out to be the cheapest place to go. Thats providing you can take a few weeks off and have sufficient funds to do it in one go.

Any recommendations on who to train with in the US?

lomb

One of the main reasons to do it in the States is the can do attitude/ good weather/ plenty of aircraft no tech issues/ get the job done in a few weeks/lower cost . Ireland cant compete with that by a long way.

Blanca83

Hi there..NFC is a totally a no go!! Unfriendly and looking to squeeze every last cent from you..Charge EUR100 for "groundschool" which consists off upstairs to the restaurant with the instructor scribbling down the odd thing on a piece paper whilst eating his lunch ( and with a chat with whoever walks by).
Atlantic Flight Centre is the benchmark..They have Turkish and Lydian cadets currently training down there an d there fleet is 2nd to none. Newcastle, which I believe wont be too far from you, is an ideal place to start too and possibly the most sensible option. Dont know much about that school but haven't heard anything bad with it. Easily get it done with 20K if your flying a 152.