Rules Question

Almaviva

Fourball. You and your partner are both on the green but you are effectively out of the hole. But your partner has a very tricky curling putt and the line is not clear.
Can you putt to where his ball is, and then have a putt for the hole to help him see what will happen to his own putt ?

1) Are you breaking a rule (it feels like it should be, but am unaware of which one if so) ?
2) Are you guilty of bad sportsmanship ?
3) Are you guilty of bad golf if you dont do it to help your pairing ?

Jack Kyle

I don't see why you can't from a rules perspective but it would certainly be bad sportsmanship.

big_drive

I'd agree with previous poster. Allowed under the rules but would be bad form
to do it

Benny Cake

I've seen this exact scenario happen in club matchplay. Not a rule violation but poor sportsmanship....

Goldenjohn

Benny Cake wrote: »

I've seen this exact scenario happen in club matchplay. Not a rule violation but poor sportsmanship....

Why not just concede the putt?

slave1

Brutal way to play the game if that's what a team chooses to do, very poor IMHO

SnowDrifts

Think I would have the perfect solution if I came across this... walk in. They can't record their own scores

Almaviva

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Think I would have the perfect solution if I came across this... walk in. They can't record their own scores

You'd be a bit of trouble yourself if they werent breaking any rule. Its not as if they were jangling their keys in the middle of your backswing or something. And if it were matchplay you would lose.

SnowDrifts

Just curious Almaviva.. have you done this? Would you have any problem with players doing this consider there is no rule to forbidding it? (well so long as your partner doesn't stand directly behind your putt or an extension of the line of play)

DuckSlice

If you are good enough to put it to where your partner is then why not just give him/her a line for there putt? Very bad sportsmanship and if someone done it to me I would be watching them like a hawk on the rules after that. Horrible way to play golf.

Almaviva

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Just curious Almaviva.. have you done this? Would you have any problem with players doing this consider there is no rule to forbidding it? (well so long as your partner doesn't stand directly behind your putt or an extension of the line of play)

No never done it. Just occurred to me yesterday when playing a classic and helping someone see the line of putts. And wondering was there a rule against actually hitting a ball in demonstration/experimentation.

If it arose, and opposition or playing partners were doing it, having no knowledge of a rule prohibiting it, I would have let them carry on, either signing their card, or accepting the outcome if it were a match.

The rules can work against you a lot in seemingly unfair ways at times that dont have a material effect or punishment commensurate with the breach. But would be a very strong 'rules are the rules' type in my observation of them. The same tendency, if there is no rule against it, would probably have me consider it in the future if the opportunity arose though it would be a rare rather than regular occurence. I am hoping someone can let us know that it is indeed explicitly against the rules.

denishurley

Almaviva wrote: »

No never done it. Just occurred to me yesterday when playing a classic and helping someone see the line of putts. And wondering was there a rule against actually hitting a ball in demonstration/experimentation.

If it arose, and opposition or playing partners were doing it, having no knowledge of a rule prohibiting it, I would have let them carry on, either signing their card, or accepting the outcome if it were a match.

The rules can work against you a lot in seemingly unfair ways at times that dont have a material effect or punishment commensurate with the breach. But would be a very strong 'rules are the rules' type in my observation of them. The same tendency, if there is no rule against it, would probably have me consider it in the future if the opportunity arose though it would be a rare rather than regular occurence. I am hoping someone can let us know that it is indeed explicitly against the rules.

Very much the case that there's a rule against this, or rolling the ball to test the line

mike12

Golf relies on the integrity of each player. Putting away from the hole to show your partner the line is akin to cheating, and it violates the spirit of the game.

In match play, the player should be disqualified from the hole. In addition, since this action assisted her partner, the partner should also be disqualified from the hole

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In stroke penalty, the player should incur a two-stroke penalty. Her partner should also incur a two-stroke penalty because the player’s breach assisted her in her play

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This question is addressed in Decision 30-3f/6.
30-3f/6
Player Plays Away from Hole to Assist Partner

Q.In a four-ball competition, a player purposely putts away from the hole to a position slightly farther from the hole than the spot where his partner's ball lies and on the same line to the hole as his partner's ball. The player then putts towards the hole, and the roll of his ball is helpful to his partner in determining how much his putt will break, etc. Is such procedure contrary to the Rules?

A.Such procedure is contrary to the spirit of the game. In match play, in equity (Rule 1-4), the player should be disqualified for the hole and, since his action assisted his partner's play, the partner should incur the same penalty (Rule 30-3f).

In stroke play, the player should incur a penalty of two strokes and, under Rule 31-8, the partner should incur the same penalty.

Related Decisions:
· 2-4/6 Putting Out After Concession of Stroke.

· 30-3c/1 Player Plays Partner's Ball.

SnowDrifts

Well researched mike12 - common sense prevails.

Almaviva

Ah. The good old Decisions. Glad its somewhere.

Jack Kyle

Excellent.

Proper order.

saintastic

Someone mentioned it above but if you concede an opponent's putt as it will help their teammate, they are not allowed to putt it out.

So let's assume that both your opponents have a putt to halve the hole. Player A misses his, rolls four feet past which is where Player B has his putt for the half from.

You conceded the putt to Player A but he declines so that he can putt it out and Player B gets to see the line. Player A putts it into the hole clearly giving Player B the line.

Player B is disqualified from the hole. Player A had missed the putt for the half so you win the hole.

DuckSlice

saintastic wrote: »

Someone mentioned it above but if you concede an opponent's putt as it will help their teammate, they are not allowed to putt it out.

So let's assume that both your opponents have a putt to halve the hole. Player A misses his, rolls four feet past which is where Player B has his putt for the half from.

You conceded the putt to Player A but he declines so that he can putt it out and Player B gets to see the line. Player A putts it into the hole clearly giving Player B the line.

Player B is disqualified from the hole. Player A had missed the putt for the half so you win the hole.

It's worth noting that you cannot decline a concession.

saintastic

etxp wrote: »

It's worth noting that you cannot decline a concession.

Although if you ignore the concession and knock the putt in, there's no penalty assuming you are not helping your partner.

DuckSlice

saintastic wrote: »

Although if you ignore the concession and knock the putt in, there's no penalty assuming you are not helping your partner.

You cannot ignore or decline a concession. And therefore you lose the hole as you are in breach of the rules. You can wait till everyone has putted out and have a practice.