Self-Esteem: Fact or Fiction

Cranky1966

Something thats bothered me for a long time is the idea of self-esteem. Its a term used a lot and seems to be at the root cause of many psychological issues but from a philosophical point of view, what basis is there to give any credibility to the idea of self-esteem....

Peregrinus

Well, a humanist philosophical position is that all humans have inherent, intrinsic value. Is that not a sufficient philosophical basis for self-esteem?

Black Swan

David Hume discusses the importance of self-esteem in A Treatise of Human Nature. Self-esteem was built upon a track record of successes in facing life's challenges. It allowed a person to show courage in the face of adversity.

He did caution that growing self-esteem should be balanced with such virtues as compassion and friendship, or self-esteem carried to its extreme could produce a tyrant.

Joe1919

I think questions about the 'self' ( or our 'sense of self') and what it is and how we value ourselves has always been an important discussion in philosophy. Many philosophers have made 'self esteem' in some form or other, the centerpiece in their discussions on ethics. e.g. Plato (Thumos), Aristotle (The magnanimous man), Diogenes (who tried to remove self esteem entirely by living like a dog), Cicero (honor), Hume (pride), Hegel (recognition), Alain de Botton (status anxiety)......

In the Christian philosophical discussions, discussions on 'Pride' (the worst sin) and humility are important. (e.g Kierkegaard, Niebuhr).
Having low self esteem for a Christian could be considered a sin because you have judged yourself.(judge not that ye be not judged) I think its ok to judge ones actions. (incidentally, many non religious would agree and see 'shame' (as a judgement of the self) as destructive whereas 'guilt' (as a judgement of ones actions) is useful.
I guess that one can always make changes to ones actions but we are stuck with our own imperfect self that we should accept.

Interestingly, I think humility plays a large part in many skeptical and eastern philosophies also. (by not getting attached to 'ideas' as well as the 'self' and taking a low key, non dogmatic approach to life).

Cranky1966

Its certainly been a kind of boogeyman for me down through the years. As an amateur armchair thinker for many years, this concept has exercised me more than most. The idea of self-esteem seems like some kind of internal need to prove something to someone about something....all very vague and intangible....yet powerful. But is it proving to someone else or myself ? That intrinsic value that Peregrinus mentioned is an excellant idea (new to me...probably not to most).....the idea of a kernal of strength, a rock to build on...it must get lost or covered over as we grow....but still exists....how do you get back to it ?

MaxWig

Cranky1966 wrote: »

Its a term used a lot and seems to be at the root cause of many psychological issues but from a philosophical point of view, what basis is there to give any credibility to the idea of self-esteem....

Hi Cranky, I'm kinda confused too.

Can you expand on your assertion that philosophically there might be no credibility in the idea of self-esteem?

I genuinely don't understand your premise.

Are you saying 'Philosophically, it doesn't exist'? Or what?

Cranky1966

You know what MaxWig....that is an excellant question. I was never sure where to seek out a discussion on this topic...so philosophy seemed to me to be a good place to start. I am hypothesising, philosophically about the possible non-existence of self-esteem....do you think I am in the wrong space here ? As a non-scholar of philosophy, maybe its not a philosophical discussion.....

Joe1919

Self esteem (as a feeling) could be said to have no objective existence as such. As a feeling, it is purely subjective. i.e it exists only as an opinion I have of myself. Its existence is purely subjective. However, there may be objective signals (my head held up high etc.)

Incidentally, a similar type of view is held of 'pain' by the expert group in their definition of pain. Very few people would deny that pain exists but nevertheless, its existence is subjective in that I am only in pain when I feel pain. (Similarly, I have self esteem only when I feel esteemed by myself, I am proud when I feel proud etc.)
http://www.iasp-pain.org/Content/NavigationMenu/GeneralResourceLinks/PainDefinitions/default.htm

Cranky1966

Wouldnt self-esteem have to be relative and not subjective i.e how I feel about myself in relation to something else...my significance (watch the spelling there) reflected off others...if we had no other human contact in our formative years, would self-esteem still become an issue ?

Joe1919

It could could be argued that self-esteem is part of a family of self evaluation emotions (along with pride, guilt, shame, embarrassment, shame, etc.). Along with the other emotions (e.g Anger), there are three elements or aspects involved. i.e. 1.Judgement, 2 Feelings, 3.Bodily/physical response.

Because there is a judgement or some type of measurement involved, there must exist some external reference or standard that we use to compare ourselves to.(if we go down this road of self evaluation). Philosophers like Nietzsche were critical of most people for using the 'herd' (or mob) as a source of values. The alternative is to use a mentor or sage or hero of some type; or have some type of objective laws or standard or religion to measure themselves against: or possibly to just follow our natural inclinations and feelings and intelligence. All the above have their problems.

The other alternative is to limit our self evaluation altogether as possibly suggested below.
http://davidmills.net/index_files/Overcoming-Self-Esteem.pdf

PS Pride is often considered a 'social' emotion.(It benefits the group but not the individual.)Some have argued that we would have no self consciousness (or language for certain types of conceptualization) if we had no other human contact in our formative years.

Incidentally, Charles Darwin writes a lot about 'pride' in the 'Decent of Man' and is fascinated by the apparently flamboyant displays that the peacock uses.

mathepac

That's a good article and I like Ellis' contribution regarding the REBT way out for self-obsessed self-esteemers.

I think poor old self-esteem has suffered badly at the hands of the pop-psychologists. Everyone is supposed to have one and she usually lives in the current wallet or hand-bag. She gets dragged out from time-to-time and is subjected to intense (or cursory) examination by people who don't know her very well and don't understand her role or function.

"She seems low today" is a comment I hear and I'm unsure if this signals the onset of a depressive episode or if she's sprung a leak. Others comment that she is high or in fine fettle today and again I'm unsure if this relates to amphetamine use or a week-end in a health spa.

I like Ellis' closing sentence "Your goal can be to enjoy, rather than to prove yourself, for the rest of your unself-esteeming life!" REBT is your only man!

Joe1919

Sometimes we observe what looks like selfishness in others but mistake this for self love. This can be mistake. Instead of loving themselves, the person can be preoccupied with themselves in a very painful way. Existential thinkers say that this self hate comes about when a sort of despair sets into our relation to ourselves; often because we idealize ourselves and expect perfection of ourselves.

The consequence of self hate can be tragic as the person often engages in self-punishment and self destructive and self-avoidance behavior.

“Surveying self-hate and its ravaging force, we cannot help but see in it a great tragedy, perhaps the greatest tragedy of the human mind. Man in reaching out for the Infinite and Absolute also starts destroying himself. When he makes a pact with the devil, who promises him glory, he has to go to hell—to the hell within himself.” (Karen Horney: Neurosis and Human Growth)

Torakx

Very nice to read these posts.
I think many people are misunderstood for many of the reasons above.

If we are not in touch with and aware of ourselves(being selfish)
How are we to know how we really feel about our relationships with others or ourselves.
To me it's like looking through multi coloured filters over the eyes.

Better to put a mirror up there and just listen.

Cranky1966

Not been around for a while....

Good to see thread still alive....although barely


Torakx....can you expand on "Better to put a mirror up there and just listen"

Torakx

Sure
I think people focus too much on those filters and not enough on just listening to the person.
Looking at ourselves when reflecting on their words in my view helps us to stay grounded.
Everything we experience is more or less taken from our own point of view.
If that makes any sense.

When someone is speaking to me, I am usually applying everythng i "see "/visualze to myself first.

biko

Carl Rogers also deals with self esteem and ties it in with self worth.
Both of course as part of his main theory on self image vs ideal self.