NTA to Close Sligo, Waterford, Wexford & Galway Rail Passenger Services (Speculation)

LivelineDipso

Just told by a friend in the department.

Cork, Belfast, Westport, Limerick and Kerry to be retained.

these are Inter-City services only. Commuter services will remain untouched.

LivelineDipso

dozens of towns to have their stations closed too.

TheBandicoot

This would be absolutely explosive, can't wait to see a proper source back up these claims.

corktina

looks like JD was right!

God that's even worse than I feared. Can rail survive at all with all that gone?

Westport is an odd survivor, is that because there is freight to run anyway I wonder?...can't be, that would apply to Waterford too

monument

Since this isn't the first such claim and I'm going to take the OP at face value, lett's keep this open for now.

OP is not likely to grass his friend up, so while you can feel free to ask, he is not obliged to give up the source.

corktina

i'm minded of the Harcourt St closure when they added HS in to the list of lines to go, to have something they could row back on and when no one objected too much, they let it go ahead ( I'm told) . Could this be the case here? will Galway or Sligo or Waterford get a reprieve?

monument

So the cuts are mostly where travel times by road have massively improved or are better than rail?

LivelineDipso wrote: »

Just told by a friend in the department.

Cork, Belfast, Westport, Limerick and Kerry to be retained.

these are Inter-City services only. Commuter services will remain untouched.

Has the friend said how likely it is to happen? Or put another way: Is this just being floated as an idea or is there a firm plan?

markpb

corktina wrote: »

Westport is an odd survivor, is that because there is freight to run anyway I wonder?...can't be, that would apply to Waterford too

Normally I shy away from stuff like this but all the other lines terminate outside the Taoiseachs constituency...

monument

corktina wrote: »

i'm minded of the Harcourt St closure when they added HS in to the list of lines to go, to have something they could row back on and when no one objected too much, they let it go ahead ( I'm told) . Could this be the case here? will Galway or Sligo or Waterford get a reprieve?

Galway or Sligo and I'd side with Galway. It'd be bloodly regardless.

Given my insight into west of Ireland politics it seems like an insane time to try to cut Galway or Sligo, with everybody gearing up for the local elections.

Gussing the "everybody is using the bus or can drive" point will be used if this is more than chatter.... Ok for Galway? Will that work of Sligo?

end of the road

i'm nearly certain i wrote on this board ages back that such full scale closures would happen, sounds possible i could be proven right after all?

GTE

Yeah, it has been floating around the board for the past while now. Its almost exciting that some momentum of the story is building.

Almost exciting. . . :pac:

davidlacey

What sense would this make, we have seen how in certain circumstances that closingnlines have been short sighted and poor decisions

corktina

we haven't really with the exception of the aforementioned Harcourt St line.

I can't think of another line that would fall into the description you use.

GTE

corktina wrote: »

we haven't really with the exception of the aforementioned Harcourt St line.

I can't think of another line that would fall into the description you use.

I would imagine a lot of the lines that would have served communities that would otherwise be cut off or given very poor choice of transport would fall under the category of a poor decision.

That said, with the way things are going now I can understand why the lines would be closed.

That said (again :pac:) , a distinction and possible a condition of discussion should be made that closing for passenger traffic could just mean cancelled services and not ripped up lines/falling into disrepair. The latter being another decision that would have to be made.

Interesting.

davidlacey

The midleton/youghal line was closed and reopened costing the taxpayer unessecary extra cost which would never have happened if it wasnt closed in the first place, simply closing lines is not the solution, making them work is. I am sure the lines mentioned in the supposed closures have a demand and i do not believe this news unless there is some concrete evidence and if not it should be put in a rumour mill thread as I could basically just put up that a driver said that the cork line is due to close.

noelfirl

If this does turn out to be substantially bollocks, it would be nice if there could be a couple of days rest before the next "my mate Dave down the station heard" thread.

GTE

noelfirl wrote: »

If this does turn out to be substantially bollocks, it would be nice if there could be a couple of days rest before the next "my mate Dave down the station heard" thread.

If it turns out to be, then there wont be any. But the more that crop up, the more a confirmation of d'craic would be nice from IR.

Anyway, I doubt these kinds of threads really ruin your interwebbing experience.

Lets play FORUM =D

corktina

The Midleton line closed when Midleton was only a shadow of what it is now, there's been massive development there since, it's a satellite town for Cork City. I'm not that convinced that it needed the line reopened though, with a parallel dual carriageway, and that's the crux of the matter. Rail is losing out to road , is it desirable to fund both a coach and a train service?, what has been said time and time again is we should invest in whichever mode does the job best.

JeffK88

Can't see this happening TBH its too extreme. If it is true the NTA should be immediately be shut. Instead of closing more railways how about thinking of ways of making them more profitable, I thought that Vision 2030 that IE released talked about doubling line to galway and improving service. Since the IMF came to this country every single thing is been eroded before our eyes. Ireland the land who promotes the car and nothing else while pretty much every other country in the world is about public transport first. What has IE to say about this matter ?? Also does this not mean millions wasted on improving the said lines and new trains and the stations and cutting off cities and towns from rail services. ? I can see massive opposition to this ........ ohh wait this is Ireland.

Banjoxed

corktina wrote: »

The Midleton line closed when Midleton was only a shadow of what it is now, there's been massive development there since, it's a satellite town for Cork City. I'm not that convinced that it needed the line reopened though, with a parallel dual carriageway, and that's the crux of the matter. Rail is losing out to road , is it desirable to fund both a coach and a train service?, what has been said time and time again is we should invest in whichever mode does the job best.

So, as a rail enthusiast you prefer dead railways to real ones? I see.

corktina

Please don't attribute opinions to me.

Ben D Bus

I presume the WRC will be staying open as well. At least as far as Athenry. :pac:

end of the road

corktina wrote: »

I'm not that convinced that it needed the line reopened though, with a parallel dual carriageway, and that's the crux of the matter. Rail is losing out to road , is it desirable to fund both a coach and a train service?, what has been said time and time again is we should invest in whichever mode does the job best.

absolutely it needed the line, just because good roads exist is no excuse for places like middleton not to have a railway, it cuts down on congestion and other factors, people should be able to choose the method of public transport they use and taking away one form (rail) is just not good enough and should not be allowed, for example if the line to wexford closes am i going to use the bus? no, i'l either stop traveling outside wexford or get a lift from a friend. coach services shouldn't be funded where their is a railway unless they feed from towns where their isn't a railway to the nearest railhead (which if i had my way BE would be doing just that) which ever does the job best is also subjective, for me as you and everyone else knows i will only use rail to travel where i can, if i go to dublin i might use the bus (as most likely i will be going somewhere where their isn't rail) but when it comes to long distances, if i have to go somewhere where their isn't a railway but a long bus haul i will get the train to the nearest railhead and get the bus from there (even if the journey takes longer) it feels like sometimes nobody thinks of people like me (fair enough i'm probably not in a majority so its understandable)

end of the road

Banjoxed wrote: »

So, as a rail enthusiast you prefer dead railways to real ones? I see.

i don't agree with some of his opinions but in fairness he didn't say that

corktina

Ben D Bus wrote: »

I presume the WRC will be staying open as well. At least as far as Athenry. :pac:

Well if it does, then the only bit closing would be Athlone to Athenry.... that doesn't make sense.

Losty Dublin

My mate Willie told me once the two things that the railway runs on are Diesel and rumours. This thread ain't running on diesel, that's for sure.

corktina

end of the road wrote: »

absolutely it needed the line, just because good roads exist is no excuse for places like middleton not to have a railway, it cuts down on congestion and other factors, people should be able to choose the method of public transport they use and taking away one form (rail) is just not good enough and should not be allowed, for example if the line to wexford closes am i going to use the bus? no, i'l either stop traveling outside wexford or get a lift from a friend. coach services shouldn't be funded where their is a railway unless they feed from towns where their isn't a railway to the nearest railhead (which if i had my way BE would be doing just that) which ever does the job best is also subjective, for me as you and everyone else knows i will only use rail to travel where i can, if i go to dublin i might use the bus (as most likely i will be going somewhere where their isn't rail) but when it comes to long distances, if i have to go somewhere where their isn't a railway but a long bus haul i will get the train to the nearest railhead and get the bus from there (even if the journey takes longer) it feels like sometimes nobody thinks of people like me (fair enough i'm probably not in a majority so its understandable)

Absolutely, as I said, investment should be in whatever mode does the job best. In some instances that will be rail.

Markcheese

It's the same story as always , if it's not used enough it'll be axed ...
I know iarnrod eireann aren't the most efficent company in the world but does anyone think a private crowd could actually make it work??
A coach with 50 -70 seats is cheaper,faster ,more flexible...
Says it all really ... It'd be great if someone could find a role for rail in Ireland ... But what....

Don't get the who-ha over lines like midleton , it closed cos it was loosing money .... When the chance came it was reopened and upgraded.... It would have had to be upgraded anyway so you just saved the money it would have lost over 30 years...

Jamie2k9

It's amazing how many people have "friends" who work for IE, NTA or whoever related to trains there is.

Only a few weeks ago the CEO of IE commented how well the Galway line is doing however there is one problem that they are trying to improve and that's journey time.

Just a comment on the Westport route, the IE CEO also said it has being preforming very well and only had a service increase a few months ago.

Of course the CEO of IE would have all his facts wrong and the friend within the NTA would be 100% correct!.

One thing that will happen is DART freq will be cut from 15 min service to 30 min service before any intercity route closes. So ask your friends within IE or the NTA when this will be happening.

end of the road

Markcheese wrote: »

A coach with 50 -70 seats is cheaper,faster ,more flexible...

cheeper yes, faster depending on the route, more flexible yes and no and depends on what you mean by flexible

Markcheese wrote: »

Says it all really

it does, the fact a bus, yes thats right a bus, is faster then a train on some routes says it all, it says irish rail and the government didn't do enough to improve speeds, the railway could offer speeds that a bus could never offer if it got the right investment on the right things, sure having the youngest fleet in europe is all fine and dandy but if its crawling around the place at speeds slower then when the railway opened then it isn't good enough

Markcheese wrote: »

It'd be great if someone could find a role for rail in Ireland ... But what....

ehh, its current one? carrying passengers around in comfort

Grandeeod

Not an ardent IE/CIE supporter, but the word that springs to mind for anyone seriously contributing to this thread is gullible.

Aard

LivelineDipso wrote: »

dozens of towns to have their stations closed too.

This is more likely than wholesale closures of lines imo.

strassenwo!f

Ah, so it sounds from the thread title like they're planning to keep the Rosslare - Wexford bit open.

Future passengers on the ferry from Fishguard will thus still be able to partake in one of the time-honoured traditions of railway service in Ireland, which is watching the train depart just as the ferry gets in.

Markcheese

"it does, the fact a bus, yes thats right a bus, is faster then a train on some routes says it all, it says irish rail and the government didn't do enough to improve speeds, the railway could offer speeds that a bus could never offer if it got the right investment on the right things, sure having the youngest fleet in europe is all fine and dandy but if its crawling around the place at speeds slower then when the railway opened then it isn't good enough"
I dunno , I think that mainly the whole speed thing is a red herring .... It's price and timetableing that affects a lot of people , and to be fair to IR their timetable has got way better..(cork-Dublin anyway)...20 mins extra (in comfort wouldnt) put me off,
Rail does point to point mass transit, we don't really have mass population....

kingshankly

Grandeeod wrote: »

Not an ardent IE/CIE supporter, but the word that springs to mind for anyone seriously contributing to this thread is gullible.

Thanks for your contribution

Cookie_Monster

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

One thing that will happen is DART freq will be cut from 15 min service to 30 min service before any intercity route closes. So ask your friends within IE or the NTA when this will be happening.

why would that be? Does the DART not make more than any other route, it's the busiest by a country mile and should be the last remaining line viableif it came to it.

Markcheese wrote: »

It's the same story as always , if it's not used enough it'll be axed ...
I know iarnrod eireann aren't the most efficent company in the world but does anyone think a private crowd could actually make it work??
A coach with 50 -70 seats is cheaper,faster ,more flexible...
Says it all really ... It'd be great if someone could find a role for rail in Ireland ... But what....

intercity is ideal, the NTA shouldn't be allowing bus and rail to compete side by side, it's a monumental waste of resources and energy. buses should be feeding the trains that cover long distance routes. But that will never change as there is no will to tackle this kind of waste against some minor flexibility costs.

corktina

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Ah, so it sounds from the thread title like they're planning to keep the Rosslare - Wexford bit open.

Future passengers on the ferry from Fishguard will thus still be able to partake in one of the time-honoured traditions of railway service in Ireland, which is watching the train depart just as the ferry gets in.

the Wexford line no doubt is implied in the title.

corktina

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why would that be? Does the DART not make more than any other route, it's the busiest by a country mile and should be the last remaining line viableif it came to it.


intercity is ideal, the NTA shouldn't be allowing bus and rail to compete side by side, it's a monumental waste of resources and energy. buses should be feeding the trains that cover long distance routes. But that will never change as there is no will to tackle this kind of waste against some minor flexibility costs.

But isn't that what this list implies?
With the exception of Cork and Belfast,The intention would be to leave Rail dealing with the bits not so far served by Motorways.

The Westport line will remain, therefore there will be Railhead in Athlone for Galway passengers to change mode

Wexford passengers can change on to the Dart at some point from their buses.

Sligo passengers will have railhead somewhere like Maynooth.

But in reality once people are off the train on to the road , they wont want to change during the journey and road will get them all.

And what of the future? When the M21 is built to Tralee, will the Kerry line be closed?

No, I can't see such a (Plan, rumour, scheme ,call it what you will) working. We need to retain the main lines to Galway and Waterford at the very least. SOme of the local lines and no doubt a few stations could be closed without too much hardship but closing Main Lines down to Cities is a step too far.

corktina

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's amazing how many people have "friends" who work for IE, NTA or whoever related to trains there is.

Only a few weeks ago the CEO of IE commented how well the Galway line is doing however there is one problem that they are trying to improve and that's journey time.

Just a comment on the Westport route, the IE CEO also said it has being preforming very well and only had a service increase a few months ago.

Of course the CEO of IE would have all his facts wrong and the friend within the NTA would be 100% correct!.

One thing that will happen is DART freq will be cut from 15 min service to 30 min service before any intercity route closes. So ask your friends within IE or the NTA when this will be happening.

the Westport line is not on the hit-list

Gael23

Waterford to limerick would be no loss as the requirement to change at Limerick Junction makes it just as easy to get the bus
Messing with Waterford to Dublin would be a disaster. It's half an hour quicker than the bus and a hell of alot more pleasant of a Journey.
The Route to Rosslare has already been scrapped, and while it has been replaced by a New Bus route, it's not exactly the same so some rural communities have been wiped off the map.
It really is shameful how under utilised railways are in this country.

monument

Grandeeod wrote: »

Not an ardent IE/CIE supporter, but the word that springs to mind for anyone seriously contributing to this thread is gullible.

Don't bother posting on the thread again -- not a request.

For everybody else: Any further attacks on poster will recive an infraction.

BuffyBot

Closing this pending further review.