Seized Alcohol by customs (sent from parents)

rh5555

Hi Guys,

Not sure if anyone has any experience with this.

Received a package from my parents in Germany with some chocolate some Winter shoes and 2 bottles of Cpt. Morgan (0.7L) as they are way cheaper there.
Received package which was ripped open just to find the alcohol missing saying it was seized. All the other stuff was still there.

Now I found a lot of info buying stuff from outside the EU but I can't really find any good information whats the deal with a case like this. Sent from parents, clearly for personal use from within the EU.

Now customs said they would contact me at some point but I just want to be prepared.

I know you can buy lots of alcohol at the airport if you fly within the EU but it's usually different if you get it delivered via post.

Hope someone has a link or knows what to expect in that situation.

Thanks

andreas_220D

See here: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/common/travellers/within_eu/

rh5555

andreas_220D wrote: »

See here: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/common/travellers/within_eu/

Thanks for the link but it kinda confuses the hell out of me.

I am assuming this paragraph would apply:

The products are sold from an internet site situated in another EU Member State than the one in which the purchaser is established and sent to the purchaser in a postal consignment:
Excise products sold via the Internet and supplied from one Member State to a customer in another Member State are subject to excise duties in the Member State where the purchaser receives his goods. So, before the excise product can be legally delivered to the purchaser, the excise duties and taxes will have to be paid. Note that in the case of distance selling, the obligation to pay excise duties in the Member State of the purchaser rests upon the vendor. Moreover, in particular in respect of manufactured tobacco products, the distance selling of such goods is also limited by the requirements, in certain Member States, to use fiscal markings or other marks of the Member State where the excise is due to show that excise has been paid, and/or by requirements to provide health warnings in the languages of the Member States where the products are placed on the market.
Note that VAT is also due in the Member State of destination in the case of distance selling of excise products.

So if my parents buy alcohol in Germany and send it to me does that mean they should ask to pay no tax on the alcohol in Germany which is (impossible btw) because it needs to be paid in Ireland. Or do they expect to pay VAT 2x. Once in Germany and another time in Ireland?

Also this sentence confuses me

Excise products sold via the Internet and supplied from one Member State to a customer in another Member State are subject to excise duties in the Member State where the purchaser receives his goods.

So my parents should ask their super market in German to please deduct the excise duty because I would need to pay it in Ireland.

How is that supposed to work. I can't just go to Tesco here and say btw. I am sending my bottle of Jameson to Germany can you please not charge me VAT and Excise duty because my friends in Germany have to pay for this?

Maybe they also expect that you pay excise duty 2x (Germany and Ireland). Either I am misunderstanding this system or it makes no sense at all.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

rh5555

Hi Melendez,

Thanks. This link is for OUTSIDE of the EU not inside EU (Germany). I think they make it as confusing as possible.

Received Letter from them today that said "....seized by me pursuant to Section 141 of the Finance Act, 2001....."

No request to pay any money to get them back, they were just confiscated.


Guess have to give them a call to really understand it.

Just figured there would be someone on boards.ie who really knows about this stuff but just from reading info on the internet it is really confusing.

keithclancy

If you buy Alcohol in another EU Country you cannot send it by post without paying Duty on the other side.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/common/travellers/within_eu/

However, special rules apply in the case of goods subject to excise duty, such as alcoholic beverages and tobacco products. If a private person purchases such products in one Member State and takes them to another Member State, the principle that no excise duty has to be paid in the Member State of destination only applies if the goods are

• for the own use of the traveller and
  
• transported by himself.

You cannot send alcohol or tobacco by post without paying Duty.

rh5555

Hi Keithclancy,

And that would bring me back to the point I made earlier.

1. So if I pay excise fee in Germany and then again in Ireland wouldn't I pay that 2x. Same with VAT.

2. How would one pay this excise fee here. They just took the alcohol. No request for money or anything.

3. I found nothing online even to find out how much the excise fee actually is?

If you have to pay VAT + Excise fee twice makes no sense to have any alcohol shipped either online or friends + family.

As I said I can't just go to Tesco saying to deduct VAT + Excise fee because I am sending the alcohol to Germany, allthough that probably would be a funny conversation.

rh5555

Found a few more information.

There is an example I found how to calculate the excise fee.

Rate of alcohol products tax (December 2012): €36.85 per litre of alcohol in the spirits.
Example 1: 50 cases of Vodka: 12 bottles x 70 cl. x 37.6% alc/vol
L/A per case: 12 bottles x 0.700 lit. = 8.40 bulk litres x 37.6% = 3.15 L/A per case
Total L/A: 3.15 x 50 cases = 157.50 L/A
Amount payable: 157.50 x €36.85 = €5,803.87

Assuming this is correct, it would mean for my 35% alcohol the following.

0.7L x 0.35 (35%) = 0.245 x €36.85 = €9.02 excise fee.

So if the bottle cost E10 in Germany (already includes German VAT and Excise fee) Ireland may want another €9.02 (almost the same as the whole bottle costs in Germany). Thats only for the excise fee. Still not sure if you pay the Irish VAT again on top of that also.

I will give the Customs a call next week anyways to check if that is correct.

sandin

rh5555 wrote: »

Hi Keithclancy,

And that would bring me back to the point I made earlier.

1. So if I pay excise fee in Germany and then again in Ireland wouldn't I pay that 2x. Same with VAT.

2. How would one pay this excise fee here. They just took the alcohol. No request for money or anything.

3. I found nothing online even to find out how much the excise fee actually is?

If you have to pay VAT + Excise fee twice makes no sense to have any alcohol shipped either online or friends + family.

As I said I can't just go to Tesco saying to deduct VAT + Excise fee because I am sending the alcohol to Germany, allthough that probably would be a funny conversation.

If you purchase alcohol and pay excise duty and then export it with all the relevant documents and show that duty is paid in another state or that it has been exported out of the eu, you could apply for a duty clawback.

The time and paperwork involved for this is simply not worth it for a couple of bottles or even a few cases.

In the normal scheme of things, a supermarket is selling stuff that would normally be consumed locally - they do not suggest in anyway that products they sell are for export.

You could go to a bonded seller who can sell directly from bond and export to wherever you want net of their country's duty and vat, but again, you are talking multiple cases, not bottles and all the paperwork would be prepared for you and you would pay local duty and vat.

Plenty of information on the revenue website regarding amount of duty to be paid on all dutiable products.

Basically you feel hard done by because its cheaper in Germany than here. But ask your parents how much property tax, church tax, state tax is in Germany and compare it to here - swings and roundabouts.

sandin

rh5555 wrote: »

Assuming this is correct, it would mean for my 35% alcohol the following.

0.7L x 0.35 (35%) = 0.245 x €36.85 = €9.02 excise fee.

So if the bottle cost E10 in Germany (already includes German VAT and Excise fee) Ireland may want another €9.02 (almost the same as the whole bottle costs in Germany). Thats only for the excise fee. Still not sure if you pay the Irish VAT again on top of that also.

I will give the Customs a call next week anyways to check if that is correct.

Correct figures. Vat would be payable on the duty of 9.02, but not on the cost of the product as it was already paid for within the eu.

Your parents could claim duty back in Germany if they wished and could prove it was exported and prove that duty was paid in another state and if they had all relevant documentation. However that is of no concern whatever to Irish customs.
Considering that duty in Germany is probably about €2 on the bottle, its simply not worth it.

rh5555

Hi Sandin,

Thanks for the explanation and I agree with you, given these facts, it makes no sense to have alcohol sent to you from friends or family. Even if they were able to buy the alcohol without the excise fee in Germany in this example, as this fee is so high in Ireland you may as well buy the alcohol here.

You may well still have it shipped because as far as I know they can only check a small amount of parcels that get to Ireland but you have to be willing to lose it. So it might be ok for 1 bottle or so.

At least with this whole investigation and your help I do understand why Alcohol is so expensive in Ireland compared to most EU countries (excluding the Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Norway perhaps). If the excise fee alone is 9 Euros on a 0.7L 35% alcohol which doesn't even include the VAT yet, the manufactures of the alcohol don't need to charge that much at all and it will still be relatively expensive.

As I said I will give them a call next week anyways but I am assuming they will just confirm your information.

Thanks again.

Gormal

They won't be asking you for duty or vat. they are siezing the goods and "destroying" them. On the grounds that you illegally imported it or it was on the list of things not allowed to be sent via post. Well that's what I think anyway.

Miaireland

My I ask, had they declared the fact there were the bottles in the parcel? It would be on a sticker on the outside of the parcel. It is just I have heard of items being seized if this was not filled in correctly.