SIMI propose 'swappage' scheme for old cars

tw0nk

The motor industry has launched a new proposal which they say will benefit drivers, the Exchequer and their industry.

They want to introduce a 'swappage' scheme where anyone with a car six years or more old can get another €2,000 off the cost of a new or second-hand car when they trade it in.

The Society of the Irish Motoring Industry said it would generate at least €129m for the Exchequer as well as create moer than 2,000 jobs."

http://breakingnews.ie/text/business/gbaugbojojgb/

Mully_2011

So its the scrappage scheme basically ??

Mint Sauce

tw0nk wrote: »

http://breakingnews.ie/text/business/gbaugbojojgb/

Is this just simply 2k off, or 2k plus the book price of the car they are trading?

tw0nk

was the scrappage scheme applicable to second hand cars also?

But yeah, pretty much the same thing

Scortho

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Is this just simply 2k off, or 2k plus the book price of the car they are trading?

2k reduction in vrt

_Kaiser_

More SIMI nonsense dressed up with the usual "it'll make the government money" spin :rolleyes:

Plus it's misleading - it's a scrappage/discount scheme. A "Swappage" scheme would be a straight exchange. That's like me offering to swap you my Galaxy S4 for your iPhone.. if you give me 100 quid with it!

Mint Sauce

Scortho wrote: »

2k reduction in vrt

But would you still get the book price? That would be my main concern. Its of no benifit if my car is worth 5-6k, and they only give me 2. But it would be if it was less than 2 which my old car was.

The main benifit with out understaning it more is that this one also appies to second hand buys.

colm_mcm

This has to be the most stupid idea theyve come up with in the last few months

A vrt rebate for scrapped cars would make more of an impact. Even €150 would clear the country of a lot of junk

corktina

seems the cars don't have to be scrapped which is good surely.Discount available on secondhand cars good too

colm_mcm

corktina wrote: »

seems the cars don't have to be scrapped which is good surely.Discount available on secondhand cars good too

Yes but a reduced vrt amount vs vrt that wouldn't be paid at all if the customer didnt buy new and pay all the VAT etc that goes with it is what the scrappage scheme was,

This proposal is essentially a grant to buy something second hand where its very hard to regulate and very easy to abuse.

Why don't the government just give everyone in the country €2000 as a christmas present, sure think of all the jobs it'd create and the increased spending would be great for the economy. That's the level of stupid ideas this proposal is on.


Nothing more than the SIMI feathering their own nests. If they spent more time protecting the consumer and less time coming up with ridiculous ideas (which similarly short sighted governments actually implement) people would actually respect what they do.

Scortho

Mint Sauce wrote: »

But would you still get the book price? That would be my main concern. Its of no benifit if my car is worth 5-6k, and they only give me 2. But it would be if it was less than 2 which my old car was.

The main benifit with out understaning it more is that this one also appies to second hand buys.

I may be picking you up wrong.
You should get the value of the car your trading in and a discount of 2k of the vrt if its older than 6 years.

lomb

If I was SIMI I would look at reducing the price of essential options like Metallic, Satnav (needed as buying something new and fresh so nice to have), a bigger engine eg cost difference for 1.6tdi and 2.l tdi golf. Its a complete turnoff to hand over 25+ grand for what is essentially a piece of crap. Even handing over 50k you are getting a piece of crap for the money depending on the car eg Audi A5.

The other issue with cars in Ireland is the lack of good finance schemes like in the UK. The monthly payments are double in some cases in leasing. Just look at the deals and massive discounting on Drive the Deal and tell me if you dont want to go out and buy a new car because I do but it wont be here.

Im surprised the Irish motor industry isnt deader than it is. There are alot of business vans and superminis sold which must contribute to the highish figures.

SIMI and the Government are clowns :rolleyes:

Mint Sauce

Scortho wrote: »

I may be picking you up wrong.
You should get the value of the car your trading in and a discount of 2k of the vrt if its older than 6 years.

That clears things up a bit. Thank you.

wexie

How would this generate any income for the state?

surely all that would happen is that one lot of secondhand cars (currently on forecourts) gets swapped with another lot of secondhand cars (currently on the road).

Leaving the older, less desirable and harder to sell secondhand cars with the dealers?

Still don't see how the government would make 129M though, unless it's from taxes from the dealers?

Not a lot of details in the article though.

Idbatterim

yeah they can changing the plates every month! i.e 131,132,133,134 etc...Would be great for keeping up with the Jones...

Chris_Heilong

They should just accept the new car market in Ireland is dead, the whole country should just import everything from the UK and buying from an online catalog.

Scortho

wexie wrote: »

How would this generate any income for the state?

surely all that would happen is that one lot of secondhand cars (currently on forecourts) gets swapped with another lot of secondhand cars (currently on the road).

Leaving the older, less desirable and harder to sell secondhand cars with the dealers?

Still don't see how the government would make 129M though, unless it's from taxes from the dealers?

Not a lot of details in the article though.

6 year old cars get swapped for new cars which would have vrt reduced by 2k.

colm_mcm

Scortho wrote: »

6 year old cars get swapped for new cars which would have vrt reduced by 2k.

Yes but they want it on used cars. Where ones the €2000 come from?

A lot of new cars don't even pay €2000 vrt.

Scortho

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yes but they want it on used cars. Where ones the €2000 come from?

A lot of new cars don't even pay €2000 vrt.

The irish times article is a lot more detailed.
Doesn't mention any rebate for used cars in it, just a 2k reduction on vrt on the price of the new car, if the car traded in is 6 years or over.
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/motor-trade-seeks-swappage-incentive-to-boost-sales-1.1523385?page=2

hfallada

It's so pointless. It's going to benefit the German and Japanese economy more than Ireland. The high fuel prices are a better incentive than the a reduction in selling prices of cars

colm_mcm

Scortho wrote: »

The irish times article is a lot more detailed.
Doesn't mention any rebate for used cars in it, just a 2k reduction on vrt on the price of the new car, if the car traded in is 6 years or over.
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/motor-trade-seeks-swappage-incentive-to-boost-sales-1.1523385?page=2

Ah right. So effectively penalise people trading in cars under 6 years old. Cool.

wexie

Scortho wrote: »

The irish times article is a lot more detailed.
Doesn't mention any rebate for used cars in it, just a 2k reduction on vrt on the price of the new car, if the car traded in is 6 years or over.
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/motor-trade-seeks-swappage-incentive-to-boost-sales-1.1523385?page=2

That article makes more sense. Too bad, extra 2k off a second hand car could have been very interesting. 2k off a new car....not so much

Scortho

colm_mcm wrote: »

Ah right. So effectively penalise people trading in cars under 6 years old. Cool.

Personally there should be no incentives to get people to buy new cars. Most of the money spent on new cars leaves this country anyway.
Suppose though Frau Merkel will have no problem with the irish tax payer subsidising VAG.

Casati

wexie wrote: »

That article makes more sense. Too bad, extra 2k off a second hand car could have been very interesting. 2k off a new car....not so much

Might be smarter than it appears - i.e 2008+ buyers got the benefit of lower vrt and road tax. I think a lot of folk with 6 year old 2007 cars have hung onto their motors because of they were devalued so much in Jan 2008. A 2000 vrt rebate might get these buyers to buy a new motor

Mint Sauce

Casati wrote: »

Might be smarter than it appears - i.e 2008+ buyers got the benefit of lower vrt and road tax. I think a lot of folk with 6 year old 2007 cars have hung onto their motors because of they were devalued so much in Jan 2008. A 2000 vrt rebate might get these buyers to buy a new motor

Would certainly persuade people to get a 2nd hand car here, compared to the UK or NI. I was pricing cars in NI today, and whilst I knew there was savings, they seem seem so much cheaper based on a estimated currancy conversion before paying the import duty.

CiniO

The Society of the Irish Motoring Industry said it would generate at least €129m for the Exchequer as well as create moer than 2,000 jobs."

I seriously can't see how this can happen - job creation, etc..

People buy more new cars, which will create few jobs for car dealers, but will take lots more jobs associated with people driving older vehicles. (indy garages, recovery services, etc).
Also someone will spend 20k on new car, will be paying it back for years, and therefore won't be able to spend this money in local economy, so amount of jobs will decrese.

It's not rocket science. Car are not manufactured in Ireland. When Irish people will buy brand new vehicles, which generally cost lost of money, all this money will go away from the country, instead of staying here and keeping economy running.

Or maybe my understanding is wrong.

Markcheese

What a great idea , I cant afford a newer car myself (00 in the drive)so I'll help subsidise someone else to buy one ...
Next someone will be suggesting I (as a taxpayer) should be subsidising wealthy bankers salaries,or paying failed developers salaries... Ah crap

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

I seriously can't see how this can happen - job creation, etc..

People buy more new cars, which will create few jobs for car dealers, but will take lots more jobs associated with people driving older vehicles. (indy garages, recovery services, etc).
Also someone will spend 20k on new car, will be paying it back for years, and therefore won't be able to spend this money in local economy, so amount of jobs will decrese.

It's not rocket science. Car are not manufactured in Ireland. When Irish people will buy brand new vehicles, which generally cost lost of money, all this money will go away from the country, instead of staying here and keeping economy running.

Or maybe my understanding is wrong.

Indeed, but has this stopped the Government before ?

We pay the grants, after all. and That included ev grants.

If they were to do it then it should be limited to average man cars and not to cars above 22-25 K

bazz26

I really hate the SIMI and everything they represent, a self serving country club for motor dealers with nobody else's interests but their own at heart.

Just when you think these bunch of half wits cannot come up with something more daft, they outdo themselves again. The sad thing is though that we have a Government who actually listen to their constant whinging and then acts on it. It's a disgrace that this group has such influence in the corridors of Leinster House imo.

Red Kev

bazz26 wrote: »

Just when you think these bunch of half wits cannot come up with something more daft, they outdo themselves again. The sad thing is though that we have a Government who actually listen to their constant whinging and then acts on it. It's a disgrace that this group has such influence in the corridors of Leinster House imo.

It's a very public example of the kind of influence lobby groups like the SIMI have on governments. It's astonishing how much influence they have here, in Brussels and in other seats of government worldwide. Perfectly legal too ehich is the worst thing about them.

renofan

CiniO wrote: »

......

Or maybe my understanding is wrong.

Your understanding is perfect. I wish the SIMI would do the same as John Delaney of the FAI. As in both f€uk off and disappear!

delthedriver

Nonsensical tosh from SIMI

New car sales are at an all time low.

Secondhand values or trade in values have gone through the floor,even if the SIMI dealer is willing to take a part exchange for a new car.

Muppets !

lomb

Look at these deals for new cars in the UK. If anyone is going to buy a new car it is like this. All at 6.4% finance.
When I enquired from Audi what discount I would be getting ontop of the 5% finance ,they said sure your getting the finance for nothing!
http://www.drivethedeal.com/specialoffers2009.asp?vans=false
The vrt these days doesnt account for the large differences in costs on leases and financing of cars versus the UK. Simi needs to look at pricing of cars, finance and options here not number plates and scrappage schemes..

colm_mcm

Finance deals need a buy back figure agreed in advance. Ironically if the Irish buyers will go crazy for 3 year old UK high miler A4s and Passats and that that'll keep the uk leasing price low.

delthedriver

colm_mcm wrote: »

Finance deals need a buy back figure agreed in advance. Ironically if the Irish buyers will go crazy for 3 year old UK high miler A4s and Passats and that that'll keep the uk leasing price low.

Ireland is awash with Audi A 4's and VW Passats. Can't do much for residual values.

colm_mcm

Exactly, so its not a case of they should do this or they should do that, theyre businesses competing with businesses dealing with customers who deal on price.

lomb

Yes but have a look at the deals on Drive the deal
What would this cost in Ireland ?
AUDI A4 AVANT SPECIAL EDITIONS 2.0 TDI 177 Quattro Black Edition 5dr Manufacturer's Recommended Retail Price:
£36,455 Our discounted price just:

£27,850
Quick Delivery! These cars are new and unregistered. Available in either Ice Silver metallic paint with Black Fine Nappa leather upholstery and Front/rear leather armrest on door panels or Daytona Grey pearlescent paint with Black cloth/leather upholstery, Heated front seats and Technology Pack (+£235). We include 12 months Road Tax as standard. Ref: HS The quoted price includes a £1,900 discount which is conditional upon you taking out PCP finance at 6.4% ...

Here the car would with leather, quattro, metallic, technology pack so thats sat nav? , heated seats etc would be closer 60k with no discount for a finance package at 5% and a higher downpayment than the UK downpayment of 5%. The nappa leather here is 3.2k alone.
Over the border your looking at less than 32k euros with 6.4% finance. Youd have to be a space cadet to buy a new car in this country. If I was in the UK and needed a car Id sign in the morning for that.

Its the same with HP /fleet lease rates here. Ask any of the lease guys on boards what something like a C220 cdi costs to lease here and I can guarantee I could get it for half that over the border. That A4 listed with quattro is actually a decent car I would be proud to own rather than the Irish spec with cloth seats, down on power, no metallic , no tech pack which is basically a joke for what could be a nice car.

Simi are on a wing and a prayer with their 132 plate ideas and other nonsense like the current rubbish.

hoodie6029

With sales at an all time low SIMI should just admit that VRT is the problem. Get the government to get rid of it and the sales will follow. Forget the gimics.
Some people will always be able to afford a new. Scrap VRT and a lot more people will be able to.

colm_mcm

Get rid of vrt and people will just by nearly new in the uk.

hoodie6029

That is true. It would finish off the Irish dealerships too. The big UK dealers would just move in.
Great for the consumer and maybe for the Exchequer. Not anyone else the short term tho.
We are being penalised with an import duty by another name. The unfairness of this tax means on principle I won't buy a new car here.
But VRT is a debate that's already been done to death here.