Garda Motorcycles? Not being replaced.

goldie fish

Would I be mistaken in thinking that no new Garda Motorcycles have been bought since 2007?

All I see about ate an ever decreasing selection of Yamaha FJR1300s, whose known problems see them being withdrawn, combined with a lack of suitably qualified motorcyclists with the advanced course. Traffic units that once had Pans, which were replaced briefly with FJRs, now have to contend with Deauville 700s, and in a few unfortunate locations, Deauville 650s.

I have never before seen such a shortage of motorcycles. Is it the case that Garda Management no longer see the need for the 2 wheeled mechanically propelled garda vehicle?

Are motorcycle courses being offered as frequently as in the past(4 a year in Templemore, similar in GHQ).

What I am seeing is with the reduction in available garda motorcycles, there is an increase in the use of civilian motorcycles for jobs Garda Motorcycles used to do, such as escort of cycle races, charity runs, oversized loads etc.
Something frequently complained about on boards.ie (civvy motorbikes with strobe lights).

goldie fish

goldie fish wrote: »

Would I be mistaken in thinking that no new Garda Motorcycles have been bought since 2007?

All I see about ate an ever decreasing selection of Yamaha FJR1300s, whose known problems see them being withdrawn, combined with a lack of suitably qualified motorcyclists with the advanced course. Traffic units that once had Pans, which were replaced briefly with FJRs, now have to contend with Deauville 700s, and in a few unfortunate locations, Deauville 650s.

I have never before seen such a shortage of motorcycles. Is it the case that Garda Management no longer see the need for the 2 wheeled mechanically propelled garda vehicle?

Are motorcycle courses being offered as frequently as in the past(4 a year in Templemore, similar in GHQ).

What I am seeing is with the reduction in available garda motorcycles, there is an increase in the use of civilian motorcycles for jobs Garda Motorcycles used to do, such as escort of cycle races, charity runs, oversized loads etc.
Something frequently complained about on boards.ie (civvy motorbikes with strobe lights).

Yup, there are some 12 reg ones around.

And re the charity events, cycle races you'll probably find that they don't want to pay the Gardaí for their attendance.

Oversize loads need a top and tail escort and can be done by themselves. There are conditions where the Gardaí need to be involved but I think for most they just need to notify.

goldie fish

goldie fish wrote: »

Would I be mistaken in thinking that no new Garda Motorcycles have been bought since 2007?

All I see about ate an ever decreasing selection of Yamaha FJR1300s, whose known problems see them being withdrawn, combined with a lack of suitably qualified motorcyclists with the advanced course. Traffic units that once had Pans, which were replaced briefly with FJRs, now have to contend with Deauville 700s, and in a few unfortunate locations, Deauville 650s.

I have never before seen such a shortage of motorcycles. Is it the case that Garda Management no longer see the need for the 2 wheeled mechanically propelled garda vehicle?

Are motorcycle courses being offered as frequently as in the past(4 a year in Templemore, similar in GHQ).

What I am seeing is with the reduction in available garda motorcycles, there is an increase in the use of civilian motorcycles for jobs Garda Motorcycles used to do, such as escort of cycle races, charity runs, oversized loads etc.
Something frequently complained about on boards.ie (civvy motorbikes with strobe lights).

goldie fish

I'm pleased to be wrong in this case.

That said, the photo is a Deauville 700. Did I hear correctly that you need an advanced course to drive them?

goldie fish

goldie fish wrote: »

I'm pleased to be wrong in this case.

That said, the photo is a Deauville 700. Did I hear correctly that you need an advanced course to drive them?

I've no idea.

Hooch

goldie fish wrote: »

I'm pleased to be wrong in this case.

That said, the photo is a Deauville 700. Did I hear correctly that you need an advanced course to drive them?

No advanced bikes since the FJRs. No shortage of advanced drivers ever in traffic. Bike courses are dime a dozen for advanced. Standard courses still going in T/more. Very very few advanced bikes left.

Standard course for 700 but if you did previous course on a 650 you have to do a familiarisation course, two days.

goldie fish

So is it time to start replacing Advanced bikes? Is there still a requirement for them? Will we have to wait till the next royal visit/eu presidency?

It just amazes me how little use is made of motorcycles in policing here compared to the UK and the rest of Europe.

maglite

Standard vs Advanced?

BaronVon

My understanding is that maintenance costs is the driving force behind the reduced use of Garda motorbikes, at a time when fatal accidents involving motorcycles are on the increase. Bikes are not being replaced at the rate they are being written off!

goldie fish

infacteh wrote: »

My understanding is that maintenance costs is the driving force behind the reduced use of Garda motorbikes, at a time when fatal accidents involving motorcycles are on the increase. Bikes are not being replaced at the rate they are being written off!

How many garda motorcycles have been involved in
(a) material damage accidents
(b) accidents causing injury to rider
(c) Fatal accidents.

The standard of Garda Motorcycle training does not at all reflect on the standard of the average motorcyclist, most of whom have not had any training whatsoever, never mind 4 weeks intensive training.

BaronVon

goldie fish wrote: »

How many garda motorcycles have been involved in
(a) material damage accidents
(b) accidents causing injury to rider
(c) Fatal accidents.

The standard of Garda Motorcycle training does not at all reflect on the standard of the average motorcyclist, most of whom have not had any training whatsoever, never mind 4 weeks intensive training.

My point is the amount of Garda motorcyclists should be increasing, not decreasing, in an effort to better police members of the public on bikes, who are dying in an increasing number on our roads.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make....

mathepac

goldie fish wrote: »

... The standard of Garda Motorcycle training does not at all reflect on the standard of the average motorcyclist, most of whom have not had any training whatsoever, never mind 4 weeks intensive training.

Would Garda management (traffic perhaps) see offering advanced motor-cycle training to civilian bikers as advantageous from a safety improvement as well as a revenue-earning perspective?

POGAN

Traffic bikes are great in cities like DMR etc there great to get around traffic, i would like to see more cars been bought with some bikes at the end of this year.

Going on the current plan there 5 million to spent in the garda budget on fleet in november ish 250 + cars which if it happens it would be most car purchased in the fleet since 07.

please no more connects they look awful really!!

kub

POGAN wrote: »

Traffic bikes are great in cities like DMR etc there great to get around traffic, i would like to see more cars been bought with some bikes at the end of this year.

Going on the current plan there 5 million to spent in the garda budget on fleet in november ish 250 + cars which if it happens it would be most car purchased in the fleet since 07.

please no more connects they look awful really!!

I wonder will a lot of that order be unmarked cars, I have not seen many recent ones about.

carzony

kub wrote: »

I wonder will a lot of that order be unmarked cars, I have not seen many recent ones about.

I'v seen a few unmarked focus's and mondeos, they look well.

goldie fish

infacteh wrote: »

My point is the amount of Garda motorcyclists should be increasing, not decreasing, in an effort to better police members of the public on bikes, who are dying in an increasing number on our roads.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make....

My apologies, I thought you were suggesting that the Garda Motorcycle numbers were being reduced as a result of the non-garda motorcycle accident stats.

goldie fish

mathepac wrote: »

Would Garda management (traffic perhaps) see offering advanced motor-cycle training to civilian bikers as advantageous from a safety improvement as well as a revenue-earning perspective?

Some regions offer rider assessment. It is encouraged, and can lead to a reduction in your insurance policy. However I do not think the role of the Gardaí should be to give driving lessons.
Most of the established instructors teach to the Police System of motorcycle control anyway.

The problem is, you can currently pass the motorbike test in Ireland with just one pre-test lesson, and hop on a bike you shouldn't be let drive, because there isn't enough roadside checks of licences and bikes. In the Past motorcycle gardai were the ones best qualified to carry out these checks.

goldie fish

POGAN wrote: »

Traffic bikes are great in cities like DMR etc there great to get around traffic, i would like to see more cars been bought with some bikes at the end of this year.

Going on the current plan there 5 million to spent in the garda budget on fleet in november ish 250 + cars which if it happens it would be most car purchased in the fleet since 07.

please no more connects they look awful really!!

You can buy 2 bikes for the price of one car, fully equipped. A motorcycle is the best means to get through heavy traffic, regardless of the location, urban or rural. In the case of motorways in particular, in the event of accidents, a Motorcycle is the best means to get on scene through traffic safely.
In a district HQ, one member on a bike can patrol a far greater urban area than one on foot, one on bicycle or even 2 in a car. If you have 2 members on 2 motorcycles, you can cover twice the area in opposite directions.

POGAN

kub wrote: »

I wonder will a lot of that order be unmarked cars, I have not seen many recent ones about.

There was few bought this year, there won't be anything like mad amount them. Get the highly visible patrol cars & bike

Il PM a photo of one of them

POGAN

goldie fish wrote: »

You can buy 2 bikes for the price of one car, fully equipped. A motorcycle is the best means to get through heavy traffic, regardless of the location, urban or rural. In the case of motorways in particular, in the event of accidents, a Motorcycle is the best means to get on scene through traffic safely.
In a district HQ, one member on a bike can patrol a far greater urban area than one on foot, one on bicycle or even 2 in a car. If you have 2 members on 2 motorcycles, you can cover twice the area in opposite directions.

100 % agree with you goldie, there great for police work you can cover greater area with less people but that's the right way to think so they will buy transit connects instead bikes,focus and mondeos

BaronVon

mathepac wrote: »

Would Garda management (traffic perhaps) see offering advanced motor-cycle training to civilian bikers as advantageous from a safety improvement as well as a revenue-earning perspective?

I understand Bikesafe is being relaunched in the next few months. It's where you can book a free riding assessment with an experienced Garda motorcyclist. While not the Guard's job to teach, they make a few pointers to the rider about their riding.

I hear the Bikesafe programme ran in to trouble years ago, riding instructors giving out that the Bikesafe programme was taking away their business, whichis a fair point. But Bikesafe has been running for years in the UK without any such problems afaik.

goldie fish wrote: »

You can buy 2 bikes for the price of one car, fully equipped. A motorcycle is the best means to get through heavy traffic, regardless of the location, urban or rural. In the case of motorways in particular, in the event of accidents, a Motorcycle is the best means to get on scene through traffic safely.
In a district HQ, one member on a bike can patrol a far greater urban area than one on foot, one on bicycle or even 2 in a car. If you have 2 members on 2 motorcycles, you can cover twice the area in opposite directions.

Completely agree, bikes have a huge tactical advantage over cars. Bikes do have greater running costs though, PPE for riders, rider training, tyres for the bike, high service intervals, repairing damage to the bikes from drops etc, which, back to the OP's point, is the reason we're seeing less Garda bikes on our roads.

Uriel.

goldie fish wrote: »

You can buy 2 bikes for the price of one car, fully equipped. A motorcycle is the best means to get through heavy traffic, regardless of the location, urban or rural. In the case of motorways in particular, in the event of accidents, a Motorcycle is the best means to get on scene through traffic safely.
In a district HQ, one member on a bike can patrol a far greater urban area than one on foot, one on bicycle or even 2 in a car. If you have 2 members on 2 motorcycles, you can cover twice the area in opposite directions.

Or like I see regularly in Athens, which always gives me a smile, motorcycle police commuting in twos (i.e. two on the one motorbike), looks awkward. I am always amazed at the sheer amount of motorcycle police patrols in Athens city. Huge numbers

Scouser

Uriel. wrote: »

Or like I see regularly in Athens, which always gives me a smile, motorcycle police commuting in twos (i.e. two on the one motorbike), looks awkward. I am always amazed at the sheer amount of motorcycle police patrols in Athens city. Huge numbers

I have seen this in many cities round the globe

some would be twin crewed scrambler bikes with the rear passenger straddling a high powered assault rifle

goldie fish

Seems I was on to something.
http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-escort-bike-1086899-Sep2013/?utm_source=facebook_short

Garda escort bikes out of action for two months

According to sources, there is a belief among gardaí that the motorcycles were kept off the roads to save money and to avoid having to replace them as they reach their mileage limits.


ALL OF THE garda escort motorcycles in the country were taken off-road for July and August, while local traffic units covered escorts, TheJournal.ie has learned.

The motorcycles, which are used for presidential escorts, in the transportation of prisoners to and from court and for escorting ambulances to hospitals in serious cases, are also used in regular traffic duty.

There are around 20 of these bikes, based in the Dublin Metropolitan Region, and all of them were out of action for two months, under the premise that they would be undergoing health and safety checks, sources have said.

“That would have taken no more than two weeks,” a source said. “People were asking why they were sitting there for another six weeks and why no one was using them.”

Over this two month period, gardaí were doing escorts on traffic motorcycles which were described as “substandard”, as they are much less powerful than the Yamaha FJR escort bikes and cannot reach the speeds required.

TheJournal.ie also learned that the traffic corps in Dublin had been pushing escorts towards local traffic units, though escort duty is generally performed by gardaí based at Dublin Castle.

Stretched resources

Sources said there is a belief among gardaí that this move was taken to make immediate savings in the stretched garda budget. Overall numbers of garda vehicles have been decreasing in the last number of years from 2,677 in 2011 to 2,473 in June 2013.

The number of garda motorcycles has fallen from 238 in 2009 to 170 in March of this year.

Almost 130 of these vehicles were more than five-years-old with 71 of those being used for at least seven years. An Garda Síochána is required to replace vehicles once they reach a certain mileage but the limit for motorcycles is much lower than for cars and it is thought that the ageing bikes are being kept off the roads to delay their replacement.

One garda source said the budget limits the purchase of new vehicles but there is a larger provision for repairs and so they are often fixed up multiple times – even if it costs more than replacing them.

It is understood that last year, a garda car involved in a head-on collision in Limerick was repaired at a cost of almost €6,000, despite the fact that the car could have been replaced for about €3,000.

“If that car had cost €10,000 to repair it would have been paid because the repairs budget is higher – there’s no lateral thinking”, the source explained.


We’re in cars with wires exposed, radios and sirens not working, crashed and then patched up. There’s no budget for new cars but there’s a budget for repairing them so when something should be written off, instead there’s thousands poured into it to keep it on the road.

‘Monitored and reviewed’

In response to a query on the issue, the Garda Press Office said:


The allocation of these vehicles will be determined by Garda Traffic, Dublin Castle consistent with operational requirements and the operational requirements in the Dublin Metropolitan Region will be considered within the the overall operational requirement of the organisation.

“The allocation of garda motorcycles is monitored and reviewed on a continual basis to ensure the best match with operational requirements,” it added.

When contacted by TheJournal.ie, the Department of Justice declined to comment.

msg11

Who comes up with this? You can just tell they have no idea what they are doing when they are repairing vehicles and putting them back on the road, not only when they should be wrote off and crushed; but actually repairing them at a cost that is more than buying one that is cheaper new.

What pisses me off is the fact that by the sounds of it one of the vehicles is a ticking time bomb before someone is seriously injured or killed either in one or by one.

We are also constantly told to tighten our belts by the government yet this one example of money wasting it makes you wonder what else we waste money on that we don't hear about. Every employer always hits the same line of attack the payroll and cut back on staff, overtime etc.. When we have money been pissed away like so !

goldie fish

This isn't a new thing. It was happening back in 1995 too, one of the limerick cars whacked off a roundabout, chassis twisted, panels were repaired, new stripes fitted, and back on the road you go with the advice that it remain in the city area only. i.e no motorway speeds.

POGAN

goldie fish wrote: »

This isn't a new thing. It was happening back in 1995 too, one of the limerick cars whacked off a roundabout, chassis twisted, panels were repaired, new stripes fitted, and back on the road you go with the advice that it remain in the city area only. i.e no motorway speeds.

Nothing surprise you anymore, so all this saving mileage on bikes, redeploying specialized units cars to other DDU around the country to save money on replacing them...

Shatter did say 5 million would be spend this year around November normally on fleet so about 260-270 vehicles i bet there maybe cut on the purchase amount i am guessing

goldie fish

By "fleet" of course you mean more vans.

POGAN

goldie fish wrote: »

By "fleet" of course you mean more vans.

yes the new mondeos is the rubbish connects:(

bravestar

POGAN wrote: »

yes the new mondeos is the rubbish connects:(

Heaven forbid you would try go up a slight hill when it's wet at any speed. Zero traction. The snow should be a great laugh altogether

POGAN

bravestar wrote: »

Heaven forbid you would try go up a slight hill when it's wet at any speed. Zero traction. The snow should be a great laugh altogether

They be grounded in the snow just wait

Capri

POGAN wrote: »

They be grounded in the snow just wait

The torque, plus front wheel drive, means that a more 'gentle' touch is needed in wet/icy conditions. I saw many diesel fwd cars just spinning their wheels during the bad winters recently when a little less throttle would have seen them up the hill - 'gentle&steady' rather than guns blazing and getting nowhere :rolleyes:

Nothing surprise you anymore, so all this saving mileage on bikes, redeploying specialized units cars to other DDU around the country to save money on replacing them...

Shatter did say 5 million would be spend this year around November normally on fleet so about 260-270 vehicles i bet there maybe cut on the purchase amount i am guessing

I wonder how much the Segways cost ( or are they on trial only ? ) - IMPO (and the opinion of some members I've talked to ) they make the members using them look stupid, bit like 'toys' and not really practical when compared to the bicycles or even scooters for city work - if the brass are thinking that way

http://www.ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/NYPD.jpg

http://www.switchimage.org/phlog/Images_va_090401/Phlog_Police_scooter_4194.jpg

Biggles1980

Capri wrote: »

I wonder how much the Segways cost ( or are they on trial only ? ) - IMPO (and the opinion of some members I've talked to ) they make the members using them look stupid, bit like 'toys' and not really practical when compared to the bicycles or even scooters for city work]

They weren't purchased by the state. They were a gift from the local businesses. I don't think the guards will buy any themselves. They are barely keeping cars on the road these days!

Biggles1980

Capri wrote: »

I wonder how much the Segways cost ( or are they on trial only ? ) - IMPO (and the opinion of some members I've talked to ) they make the members using them look stupid, bit like 'toys' and not really practical when compared to the bicycles or even scooters for city work]

They weren't purchased by the state. They were a gift from the local businesses. I don't think the guards will buy any themselves. They are barely keeping cars on the road these days!

jamesr123

Biggles1980 wrote: »

They weren't purchased by the state. They were a gift from the local businesses.

I find that a bit strange. Business are struggling yet they wanna buy the guards segways

goldie fish

jamesr123 wrote: »

I find that a bit strange. Business are struggling yet they wanna buy the guards segways

Not all business is struggling. Giving corporate gifts to the state is another way of keeping your tax bill low.

jamesr123

goldie fish wrote: »

Not all business is struggling. Giving corporate gifts to the state is another way of keeping your tax bill low.

I suppose it's a good incentive then:D Pity they don't wanna donate cars

jamesr123

jamesr123 wrote: »

I find that a bit strange. Business are struggling yet they wanna buy the guards segways

This lot.

http://www.dublincitybid.ie/