Home heating oil prices/recommendation ?

Blingy

Looking for any recommendations for home heating oil (kerosene) anyone gotten any good deals/prices recently?

JR Ewing

Hi Blingy

Just saw your post & with years of experience in the oil industry I decided to offer you some insight into where you could possibly go wrong.

Purchasing home heating oil, agri diesel, petrol or road diesel is a unique experience for any consumer as it is the only time:

1. You are buying something you cannot see
2. You are buying something you cannot measure or quantify yourself
3. You are buying something which you don’t know what it consists of
4. The only thing the consumer can compare is the price & “assumes” that all else is equal

It is this assumption which is being preyed upon by rogue and unscrupulous suppliers. Most consumers’ attitude to buying oil is to research and do price comparisons between local suppliers BUT in many cases the so called “cheapest” quotation is from a supplier who will use one of a number of methods to “short” the customer for profit. Price is only 33% of the equation as it is not representative of volume or product quality.

The common methods which are available to an unscrupulous supplier include the following:

A. Short Measure
While all delivery trucks and service station pumps are supposed to have NSAI/Legal Metrology Service (LMS) certified meters how many don’t? How many have been tampered with or incorrectly set initially? How does the customer know either way? My employer has told me that since entering the business in the early 1980’s he has only had 2 “weights & measures” or LMS inspections and on both occasions when the inspectors saw “sealed” meters they assumed they were correctly calibrated without doing any further checks. It should be mandatory that all truck meters and service station pumps should be independently verified on an annual basis and that consumers should have the right to request copies of certification from suppliers or indeed that the certificate should be attached to each pump. This is a highly lucrative exercise for any rogue supplier without leaving the consumer vastly short- for example- a distributor or service station who can sell 5 million litres of petrol or road diesel per annum with a miscalibration of just 3% short can withhold 300,000 from his clients and with oil prices at current levels this equates to close to €450,000 while many customers will not notice a 3% volume deficit reduction.
B. Air or Temperature Contamination
Even if the meter calibration certificate is available, and is correct, it is apparently not 100% security against deception. Rumour abounds that there are suppliers with perfectly sealed and calibrated meters which then have an air hose inlet retro fitted to the line prior to passing through the meter (most likely on trucks rather than at service stations). The science involved uses compressed air to create bubbles in the oil before it passes through the meter enhancing and overstating the volume put through. If the truck is due to be inspected they simply switch off the air valve and the meter reverts to perfectly correct calibration. Another reported possible scam is where a container of a cold liquid (e.g. liquid nitrogen flask or ice bank) is placed close to the temperature probe of a temperature compensated meter to make sure that it always reads less than the optimum 15 degrees also resulting in a loss to the customer. Neither of the above scams would be easily detectable by an inspector as they could be very well concealed.
C. Preprinted Delivery Dockets
Rumours also circulate that there are suppliers who issue “pre printed” delivery tickets to unattended deliveries. The theory here is that a supplier could run off vast quantities of different quantity tickets i.e. 300 litres, 500 litres, 1000 litres etc and then when they arrive at an unattended delivery put no meter ticket in the meter instead using a pre printed ticket and leaving the volume short. I would estimate that particularly in the home heating market approx 50-60% of deliveries would be unattended as people may be at work when the delivery is being made.
D. Washed/Manipulated Product
There has been much press dedicated to the fact that there is a mass volume of “washed” road diesel product available on the market but it still hasn’t stopped people from buying it and the fraudsters from staying in business. The cheaper price of this product is what attracts the customers and it is impossible to compete with.
E. Stretched Product
Allegedly there are also suppliers “stretching” road and agri diesel by adding cheaper bio diesel to the product to increase their potential margin while ethanol/alcohol is supposedly being added to petrol for the same purpose.
F. Illegally Imported Product
A significant volume of kerosene from Northern Ireland also appears to be making its way South and while it comes in as a “clear” colour it is then mixed with “red” kerosene in The South resulting in the whole mix being red but just not as red as it should be. The difference in duty and carbon tax is alleged to be close to €5,000 per articulated truck load. Feel free to check out sites such as www.cheapestoil.ie which offers “price comparisons” for the country- why are the cheapest suppliers all located close to the border? Why are no recognizable brand names or direct importers such as Topaz, Valero, TOP, Maxol, Texoil, ESSO appearing close to the top of the list?

Hope this gives you some foo for thought when buying any oil products either from a truck or service station.

Regards

Blingy

Thank you JR Ewing for the detailed response. It certainly gives food for thought!

bido

Glen fuels in Kilmacanogue are about the best all their drivers have been with them for years.

Cerco

Anybody ever had or heard of water contanimination in to kerosene?

JR Ewing

Cerco- yes kerosene can get contaminated with water- there is a paste which you can get to check for the presence of water. Essentially you smear the paste on a piece of timber & then dip it into your tank- if there is a colour change (usually turns pink) it will show you that you have water (due to densities the water & kero will settle at different levels so it should be possible to pump out just the water.

http://inspectapedia.com/oiltanks/OilTankWater5.htm

Cerco

Another question re water contanmination, as you seem to be quite knowledgeable on the subject , JR : Is there an industry agreed permitted level of water in delivered kerosene?
I have been told this is so but could not confirm.
Thats a useful reference site and I will take time to read the documents. That paste seems a useful product to keep available.

JR Ewing

Cerco wrote: »

Another question re water contanmination, as you seem to be quite knowledgeable on the subject , JR : Is there an industry agreed permitted level of water in delivered kerosene?
I have been told this is so but could not confirm.
Thats a useful reference site and I will take time to read the documents. That paste seems a useful product to keep available.

There is no industry permitted level of water in kerosene. You have to remember that oil & water won't mix but will rather seperate and settle at different levels hence why the paste can pick up the level where the water is lying. Hope this is the information you needed. You can confirm this by dipping a bottle into to your ow heating oil tank- taking a sample of kerosene and then add some water & shake- when you leave it settle you should see the seperation. Water will screw up your burner & is very detrimental to AGA cookers etc.

Cerco

Yes, thanks the information J.R.

Cerco

JR Ewing

Just to let you guys know- consumer oil prices are falling back at the moment. A strengtening Euro & a little more diplomatic harmony over Syria have helped to bring prices down slightly.

The price of oil to the public actually now changes each and every night as almost all suppliers have moved to "daily pricing" but you should see redutions filtering through for kerosene, MGO, petrol & diesel before the end of the week.

Charlie-Bravo

crap, I just filled up the car.

pixbyjohn

astrofluff wrote: »

crap, I just filled up the car.

Aww that's ok, you won't have to fill it again til September 2014:D

JapanZone

As a first-time oil buyer, I'm figuring out where to draw the line between going with the cheapest price and selecting a reputable supplier. I was looking at the comparison site JR referred to and was all set to choose a supplier from there until I decided to do some more checking and found this thread. It should be compulsory viewing for any oil customer.

Given that the cheapest supplier currently listed on the above site is not only *significantly* cheaper and on the border, but also clearly Photoshops phone numbers onto its website photos, I won't be using them. I see that the "brand" names, while not listed on the comparison site, have prices in the same general range. I'm leaning towards Maxol but will see what they say on the phone.

Thanks, JR.

JR Ewing

Just a heads up....

The recent downward trend in Platts oil prices looks set to come to an end tomorrow and we now expect price increases from Thursday night/Friday onwards- personally I think there will be an increase of between 0.75-1.00c on Thursday night with how the market looks this afternoon.

Essentially market prices have "bounced" off technical resistant levels for WTI crude oil of just over $103 dollars a barrel and with positive international news in recent days they should hold above this point. The way I see it is that prices look like increasing for Fri & Monday with the next move mid week (next week) critical- I think if that move is upward then prices will go up again quickly HOWEVER if next weeks move is back below $103 then there may be further falls in Platts (good news for everyone!!).

Might help people decide when is a good time to buy. The "barrel" prices quoted take a long time to be reflected in Platts or Schedule Prices so I am trying to give you an idea which way the price will move to the public rather than on the markets.

JR Ewing

<snip>

Unfortunately you are unlikely to get any satisfaction however there are a few angles you could take to prve yourself correct or open up another angle of attack.

1. Get a plumber or other supplier to pump out your tank through a calibrated meter- this should allow you to see if there is any large discrepancy in volume- will be a crude measure of quantity but if it shows only 400 litres i.e. as you say no where near 500 litres then at least you know for sure. Problem is that it will cost you to find out.
2. If I were you I would send the oil off to be tested. There are industry specs for kerosene so if the oil in your tank failed any of these tests then you could potentially pursue him for selling an "inferior" product. If you suspect that he is "short" measuring then God only knows what other short cuts he is taking. I reviewed his pricing online & can tell you that he is cheaper than some suppliers in the border region which is always a "flag" in my book
3. Like another poster said- threaten bad publicity as many "operators" don't want to attract attention to themselves and you might get some sort of satisfaction from him just to go away- personally I would try this route as it doesn't cost anything while all other options will be quite expensive just to prove a point. Use online to see if anyone else in a similar situation with the same guy?

Best of luck with it.