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Court/Court Martial records 1923

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  • 10-09-2013 11:51am
    #1
    Dagshai
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭


    I am looking for more information on a trial or court martial that culminated in a short sentence of imprisonment in Mountjoy.

    The man (who I prefer to keep nameless for now) had served with the Connaught Rangers during WW1 and whilst serving in India 1920 had joined in the mutiny led by James Daly and others. On his release from Dartmoor prison in 1922 it appears he joined the Irish National Army and held the rank of Captain.

    I have found a prison record from Mountjoy 1923 where it appears that he was sentenced/convicted by M. Hogan of Claremorris Command/52nd Battalion.

    I would appreciate any help or advice that you could offer. Mods feel free to move to a more appropriate forum if needed.

    Thank you


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    #2
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    http://www.military.ie/info-centre/military-archives/


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    #3
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Military Archives, Cathal Brugha Barracks would be a starter.


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    #4
    Dagshai
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Dagshai


    Thank you for the replies.

    I have tried that site and sent an email last night, just looking for other options.

    Santa Cruz, do mean a visit to Cathal Brugha?

    Thanks again folks


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    #5
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    Might want to visit if info is of a personal nature you may need to be there in person to prove family relationship, they might not give that sort of info out to anybody.


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    #6
    Dagshai
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Dagshai


    Proving relationship won't be difficult as I am a 3rd generation descendant of his. It was during the search for generations before that I came across this gem!

    I am hoping that it was a misguided act rather than malicious but if I could get his service record it would surely tell a lot.

    A reply from the Military Archives would surely offer the ways and means of accessing this information.


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    #7
    Dagshai
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Dagshai


    Found it, quoted from the Military Archives website:

    "Personnel records are currently available to direct next of kin only. In exceptional circumstances, direct next of kin may give permission to a third party researcher to proceed with an enquiry on their behalf. Military Archives requires a signed letter of application for personnel records along with copies of birth cert(s) to establish an applicant’s relationship to personnel of interest. The OIC Military Archives may request a death certificate for the subject and/or a sworn affidavit stating the next of kin relationship. If you are direct next of kin, you should apply to see your ancestors’ records as follows:1. If the subject left the Defence Forces less than thirty years ago:A. For officers (i.e. Lieutenants, Captains, Commandants etc.) write to:OIC Commissioned Officers’ Management OfficeDCOS (Sp),DFHQ,St. Mobhi Road,Coláiste CaoimhínGlasnevin,Dublin 9 B.For enlisted personnel (i.e. Privates, Corporals, Sergeants etc.) write to: OIC Enlisted Personnel Management Office,DCOS (Sp),DFHQ,St. Mobhi Road,Coláiste CaoimhínGlasnevin,Dublin 92. If the subject left the Defence Forces more than thirty years ago:For officers (i.e. Lieutenants, Captains, Commandants etc.) and for enlisted personnel (i.e. privates, corporals, sergeants etc.) – write directly to OIC Military Archives, as per the contact address. - See more at: http://www.militaryarchives.ie/useful-information/faq#sthash.aUUoycsw.dpuf"


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    #8
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Court martial records are generally sealed for 100 years.

    You might get some of his service records, but I think it's unlikely you'll get any records from the court martial, but I may be wrong. Good luck


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    #9
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Dagshai wrote: »
    I have found a prison record from Mountjoy 1923 where it appears that he was sentenced/convicted by M. Hogan of Claremorris Command/52nd Battalion.

    Have you considered why the place of incarceration was Mountjoy? Did military prisons/detention barracks not exist at that time? Have you checked local newspapers of that date to see if the offence was reported?


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    #10
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    possibly some info via the people involved with Mountjoy Prison museum?

    http://www.penandclink.com/mjmuseum/index.html

    I'm interested in the English Connaught Ranger mutineers (Pte John Miranda from Bootle and Sgt Joseph Woods MM from Bristol).

    Good luck with your research.


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    #11
    Dagshai
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Dagshai


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    Have you considered why the place of incarceration was Mountjoy? Did military prisons/detention barracks not exist at that time? Have you checked local newspapers of that date to see if the offence was reported?

    I have indeed considered why Mountjoy as he was sentenced by the Major General of Claremorris Command, the charge was a very serious one - but one I would have thought deserving of a much longer sentence. He was sentenced to 6 calendar months in March 1923, imprisoned in May 1923 and released in July 1923!

    There are also a 'clatter' of soldiers on the same page imprisoned for mutiny from the Curragh with sentences ranging from 7 to 18 years - the leader got 18 years.

    I have searched all editions available on www.irishnewspapersrchives.com for articles relating to this but to no avail.
    johnny_doyle wrote: »
    possibly some info via the people involved with Mountjoy Prison museum?

    http://www.penandclink.com/mjmuseum/index.html

    I'm interested in the English Connaught Ranger mutineers (Pte John Miranda from Bootle and Sgt Joseph Woods MM from Bristol).

    Good luck with your research.

    Thank you for that link. The Connaught Rangers Association in Boyle, Co. Roscommon are extremely helpful and the museum is pretty good too. I paid €25 to one of their researchers and he provided me with a plethora of information including service records relating to WW1

    http://connaughtrangersassoc.com/

    Jawgap wrote: »
    Court martial records are generally sealed for 100 years.

    You might get some of his service records, but I think it's unlikely you'll get any records from the court martial, but I may be wrong. Good luck

    I have sent a letter requesting his service records and will take it from there, hopefully with all the centenary celebrations being planned they might release some records early.


    Being as though he was a Captain he would have been responsible for the actions of his men, does anybody know of any noteworthy or not so noteworthy incidents that occurred late 1922 but more likely January 1923 around Claremorris or involving men or a man from 52 Battalion?

    Thanks to all


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