Protected Structures

cow man

A building on the farm has been included on a Proposed Record of Protected Structures and I was wondering if this has any advantages or would it be all bad for us, we use the building as a store and someone from the Co Council was out looking at it and took some pictures last spring.
We have till the middle of next month to try and get it off this proposed list but I'm sure it wouldn't be very easy.

Sharpshooter82

cow man wrote: »

A building on the farm has been included on a Proposed Record of Protected Structures and I was wondering if this has any advantages or would it be all bad for us, we use the building as a store and someone from the Co Council was out looking at it and took some pictures last spring.
We have till the middle of next month to try and get it off this proposed list but I'm sure it wouldn't be very easy.

Do you not get some sort of grant to repair old buildings once they are protected

Conmaicne Mara

Take it out. If it's listed now that space will possibly be unavailable to you in the future if your plans change. Short term gain can be costly if it gets in the way of a change of mind later on.

9935452

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Take it out. If it's listed now that space will possibly be unavailable to you in the future if your plans change. Short term gain can be costly if it gets in the way of a change of mind later on.

I'd agree plus you might be made fix it up and it could end up costing a fortune. There might be issues with planning permission near it in the future as well. Buildings too close etc

Birdnuts

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Take it out. If it's listed now that space will possibly be unavailable to you in the future if your plans change. Short term gain can be costly if it gets in the way of a change of mind later on.

AFAIK a "proposed" protected structure has the same legal status as an actual protected structure. The OP should check with his local CC to be sure in order to avoid expensive legal complications/outcomes

Sharpshooter82

9935452 wrote: »

I'd agree plus you might be made fix it up and it could end up costing a fortune. There might be issues with planning permission near it in the future as well. Buildings too close etc

never thought of that angle, unless the building was well out of the way

Birdnuts

9935452 wrote: »

I'd agree plus you might be made fix it up and it could end up costing a fortune. There might be issues with planning permission near it in the future as well. Buildings too close etc

The only works required would be to prevent access to the public if its unsafe. Alot of people have old castles/cottages on their land.

Red Sheds

Birdnuts is right a proposed protected structure has the same status as a protected structure. I had the same situation where a building on the farm was put on the "proposed" list. If it makes it to the actual list, then its much more difficult to get it removed from the list and you can do virtually nothing to it. In fact the local authority can direct that you reinstate it and / or keep it in tis current condition. The Heritage Council had grants to retore them etc, (not sure if they have now) but when i looked into it the amount of grant, it would not go 10% towards what I would have to spend. It will raise complicaitons with future planning permissions and uses that you want to do with the building.

My advice get it removed from the Propsoed list. The local authority members have to vote on the buildings on the proposed list to have them included on the protected structures list. I asked two of the local county councillors to propose and second that my building would not be included on the protected list and hence it was voted not to be included. End of story. So get onto your local councillors and get them to vote that its not included.

Sharpshooter82

or give it a slap of a digger and blame the wind

Red Sheds

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

or give it a slap of a digger and blame the wind

A fellow in Kerry tried that a year or two ago with a ring fort and got a slap with a €30k fine,

Like you idea though, it had crossed my mind too.

jay gatsby

It is a big issue for some. The county council can direct you to carry out repairs or preventative measures to prevent the structure falling down etc. On some big structures the costs could literally run to millions as you have to follow their protocols and directions also.

While I'm not advocating it by any means, a 30 grand fine could be a very cheap way out.

iverjohnston

If it is in good structural condition now, just keeping the roof sound will be the main thing. A year or so the Journal ran a few articles on these type buildings. Seemed to be quite a liberal interpretation of the rules. If the building can be seen from the public road, there may (repeat, MAY) be grant available for re-roofing etc. If its slap in the middle of your yard, you might be better off trying to get it removed from the council list.

lakill Farm

id follow the council for trespassing on your property. and ask them how they know the building is there without having received written permission to gain access.

And then ask had they a method statement, insurance and copies, safety statement, safe pass, tickets to drive the car. They will remove it from the list then . . The council hate awkward hoares.

then ask when did they sterilise there boots :cool:

9935452

lakill Farm wrote: »

id follow the council for trespassing on your property. and ask them how they know the building is there without having received written permission to gain access.

And then ask had they a method statement, insurance and copies, safety statement, safe pass, tickets to drive the car. They will remove it from the list then . . The council hate awkward hoares.

then ask when did they sterilise there boots :cool:

They probably saw it when they were inspecting yards a few years back for things like pollution.

The problem of getting awkward with the council is they can too. You will start getting letters in the post saying that your road hedges have to be cut, then fines for pollution the moment you leave muck on the road

lakill Farm

I played nice with local co co (WH) for 4 years. Cost me a fortune on planning fees and digs etc.

I have since played nasty or last 3 years and they don't cross me. So much so the outdoors staff have been told to stay clear of me .

At the end of the day they don't have that much power outside of planning. And us your councillors. I have 2 on speed dial. Everything by text or email as written proof. I cant wait to meet the other 2 councillors. They were to scared to reply to an email wait till they come looking for a vote

tabby aspreme

OP what county are you in, there may be different interpretations in some councils

Sharpshooter82

lakill Farm wrote: »

id follow the council for trespassing on your property. and ask them how they know the building is there without having received written permission to gain access.

And then ask had they a method statement, insurance and copies, safety statement, safe pass, tickets to drive the car. They will remove it from the list then . . The council hate awkward hoares.

then ask when did they sterilise there boots :cool:

pain in the ass springs to mind

cow man

We are in Cavan
The building can be seen clearly from the road and when the man from the Co Council came my wife was very helpful to him even unlocked the door so he could see inside, she regrets it now.

iverjohnston

I think Cavan CoCo have that list finalised, they were recording all listed structures. Its a very hit and miss scheme, you were unlucky to have that building included. The old farmhouse on our place is not listed, but a tiny cottage which was built later is.

maidhc

I don't like the attitude amoung farmers that heritage is something to be scorned at. It is plain ignorant. Anyone who destroys ring forts or any structures deemed worthy of preservation deserves fines and penalties and severe ones at that.

We are only passing through here, and mere custodians of the land for a very brief period.

Now it is a different matter if the structure is not worth preserving by any fair measure, and I don't agree that people should have to maintain a building regardless of cost.

It is just the attitude that anything old should be bulldozed gets me, and it is probably the reason we don't have some of the wonderful old residences and outoffices that they have in the UK.

blue5000

My old pair's house is listed, it's a pain in the ar5e. They nearly had to get planning permission to put a solid fuel stove in their living room a few years back. If you can at all try get off it OP.

OPW or whatever they call themselves these days are not, AFAIK giving out any grants for maintenance either these days, yet I haven't heard of them letting any staff go because of cash problems.

Getting a grant is not the answer either, I know of one farmhouse where they had to spend 14k on cast iron gutters!! Twoud take a fair few suckler cows to pay for that sort of crap.

iverjohnston

maidhc wrote: »

I don't like the attitude amoung farmers that heritage is something to be scorned at. It is plain ignorant. Anyone who destroys ring forts or any structures deemed worthy of preservation deserves fines and penalties and severe ones at that.

We are only passing through here, and mere custodians of the land for a very brief period.

Now it is a different matter if the structure is not worth preserving by any fair measure, and I don't agree that people should have to maintain a building regardless of cost.

It is just the attitude that anything old should be bulldozed gets me, and it is probably the reason we don't have some of the wonderful old residences and outoffices that they have in the UK.

Did not see anyone advocating bulldozing a structure just because its old in this thread. English Heritage have been active for many years preserving these kind of things, and they have a head start on the authorities here. lots of fine old buildings torched before the state was founded.

moy83

blue5000 wrote: »

Getting a grant is not the answer either, I know of one farmhouse where they had to spend 14k on cast iron gutters!! Twoud take a fair few suckler cows to pay for that sort of crap.

There are a few crowds making PVC gutters that are replicas of the old cast ones . They look damn good too but I dont know if the OPW would allow them either as replacements

manjou

Have one on our place and is a listed building. First problem is when going to build my house got architect to look at it and he said that it would cost a fortune as everything would have to be done the old way like plastering and windows etc so put 3 row of barbed wire round it and left alone. Shame really but couldent afford the ****e i would have to go through to do it up. Next problem came up when i went for silage pit in last grant scheme and wouldent get planning permision because i was too near old yard even though cattle yard is beside it and would have to build away from main yard.

hugo29

cow man wrote: »

A building on the farm has been included on a Proposed Record of Protected Structures and I was wondering if this has any advantages or would it be all bad for us, we use the building as a store and someone from the Co Council was out looking at it and took some pictures last spring.
We have till the middle of next month to try and get it off this proposed list but I'm sure it wouldn't be very easy.

get a report done and lodged to the council as to why it should not be included on the list of protected structures

The proposed list has yet to be adopted, as previously pointed out lobby your local councillors to have it removed but prepare a good report by a professional stating valid reasons why it does not suit to have it listed as protected

if it becomes protected then you can not touch anything on the building without permission, inside or out, you can be served an enforcement notice by the council ordering you to upkeep the building to a reasonable condition at your own cost and your idea and their idea of reasonable could be thousands apart

get it removed now, its of no benefit, just a liability

littlevillage

Red Sheds wrote: »

Birdnuts is right a proposed protected structure has the same status as a protected structure. I had the same situation where a building on the farm was put on the "proposed" list. If it makes it to the actual list, then its much more difficult to get it removed from the list and you can do virtually nothing to it. In fact the local authority can direct that you reinstate it and / or keep it in tis current condition. The Heritage Council had grants to retore them etc, (not sure if they have now) but when i looked into it the amount of grant, it would not go 10% towards what I would have to spend. It will raise complicaitons with future planning permissions and uses that you want to do with the building.

My advice get it removed from the Propsoed list. The local authority members have to vote on the buildings on the proposed list to have them included on the protected structures list. I asked two of the local county councillors to propose and second that my building would not be included on the protected list and hence it was voted not to be included. End of story. So get onto your local councillors and get them to vote that its not included.

Great thread and some good advice there (particularly Red Sheds). I am in the same boat, local council are trying to add an old farmhouse that I own onto the county Protected structures list. I obviously don't want this. I have been chatting to the local councilor.

Advice I was given. Make sure you lodge an objection that way it will be reviewed and voted on, on its own...and then in the meantime try to get as many councillors as possible signed up to vote against it being included when the vote is taken. Exactly how you go about 'signing up' local councillors is unclear, but I'll keep ye posted on how I get on :-)

Del2005

littlevillage wrote: »

Great thread and some good advice there (particularly Red Sheds). I am in the same boat, local council are trying to add an old farmhouse that I own onto the county Protected structures list. I obviously don't want this. I have been chatting to the local councilor.

Advice I was given. Make sure you lodge an objection that way it will be reviewed and voted on, on its own...and then in the meantime try to get as many councillors as possible signed up to vote against it being included when the vote is taken. Exactly how you go about 'signing up' local councillors is unclear, but I'll keep ye posted on how I get on :-)

There's an election in a few weeks time. Promise everyone who calls to your door your No. 1 if they vote against your structure being protected.