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Time to seek wage increases.

  • 09-09-2013 08:39PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,372 ✭✭✭


    Must be getting close to a turn in our expectations on wages. Years of tax increases, real wage cuts and social engineering by the ruling classes to deplete our self worth must he close behind.

    Contrast the above with the recent consolidation by employers as well as oppotune profiteering in some cases, real world increases in living costs, massive increases in energy costs and statistics Euro wide and globally suggesting real sustainable growth, surely its time to change our expectations on wages. Surely its time to give up being beaten with the unemployment stick. If everyone works for very little then we're all worth alot less. Those who emigrated can testify to this.

    Anyway, I look forward to your responses.


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭genericguy


    Indubitably old bean.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭redtapestyl


    Hard to get a pay rise when you don't have a job!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Do you think those currently in employment are underpaid OP?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,608 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Been time to seek, and generally get, them in proper IT jobs (e.g. not customer support roles) for at least 18 months now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,359 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    If everyone worked for a tenner a week you could buy a house for two grand.Or less.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    I couldn't possibly ask my boss for a rise, he's paying his workers too much as it is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Have you considered joining a GAA club OP? I hear that's the way to get a raise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    Must be getting close to a turn in our expectations on wages. Years of tax increases, real wage cuts and social engineering by the ruling classes to deplete our self worth must he close behind.

    Contrast the above with the recent consolidation by employers as well as oppotune profiteering in some cases, real world increases in living costs, massive increases in energy costs and statistics Euro wide and globally suggesting real sustainable growth, surely its time to change our expectations on wages. Surely its time to give up being beaten with the unemployment stick. If everyone works for very little then we're all worth alot less. Those who emigrated can testify to this.

    Anyway, I look forward to your responses.

    What rubbish!
    Jesus! most people outside of the public sector/Semi-state sector are lucky to have work at all.
    As for employers consolidating, let me tell you as an employer I ain't consolidating, I'm trying hard to stay afloat in a climate that is becoming harder and harder.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭Almaviva


    Nah. Still 14% unemployed. Plus many on short time, reduced hours etc.
    Wages still too high and need to erode for another 5 or 6 years get back to what we are really worth and have a sustainably competitive labour market and economy.
    Increases in living costs are by the way and just too bad.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

    Ireland already has the second highest average wage and one of the highest minimum wages in the world.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Local Purchasing Power in Dublin is 15.32% higher than in London.

    http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&country2=Ireland&city1=London&city2=Dublin

    So that would be a no.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,372 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    What rubbish!
    Jesus! most people outside of the public sector/Semi-state sector are lucky to have work at all.
    As for employers consolidating, let me tell you as an employer I ain't consolidating, I'm trying hard to stay afloat in a climate that is becoming harder and harder.

    Its becoming harder to survive because the economy is still in a false state of contraction, very few yet some are still gaining in wealth, ordinary people have no spare money. More disposable income equals increased spending power equals growth equals easier conditions to survive for everybody. Neither employers or employee's can instigate this change in mindset, I'll give you that. Its got to he policy. Growth will wipe out our dept faster, contraction in wages actually prolongs the problem, in effect increasing the nation's debt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    MYOB wrote: »
    Been time to seek, and generally get, them in proper IT jobs (e.g. not customer support roles) for at least 18 months now.


    I'd like to be helpful here if I can, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say tbh.

    Are you trying to get a job in IT for the last 18 months now or are you saying that other people have been trying to get better jobs in IT for the last 18 months?

    To answer the OP - I think the minimum wage is far too high as it is, and some people are still living under the assumption that they should be entitled to what they feel they're worth.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭Almaviva


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

    Ireland already has the second highest average wage and one of the highest minimum wages in the world.

    Thanks. It must be recognised however, the extent to which the first figures are skewed by the wages of Dublin bus drivers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,372 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    MadsL wrote: »
    Local Purchasing Power in Dublin is 15.32% higher than in London.

    http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&country2=Ireland&city1=London&city2=Dublin

    So that would be a no.


    Who does that benefit? The people of London! Don't think so but its a great example of what I'm trying to prove. A city filthy rich (minority getting richer during recession) yet the average Joe is getting poorer. That can't be right! You're not suggesting thy we should be closer in statistics to our cockney cousins are you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    What rubbish!
    Jesus! most people outside of the public sector/Semi-state sector are lucky to have work at all.
    .

    So the 1.5million private sector workers are all lucky to have a job.

    They don't bring anything to the table that renders their employment absolutely necessary.......they're just lucky.

    Would you feck off!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    Paulzx wrote: »
    So the 1.5million private sector workers are all lucky to have a job.

    They don't bring anything to the table that renders their employment absolutely necessary.......they're just lucky.

    Would you feck off!!
    I think he meant that employment is not permanent in the private sector and that unemployment is rising. A lot of people are unable to find work.

    It's not implying that you're incompetant.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭Paulzx



    It's not implying that you're incompetant.



    Where did me being incompetent come from? Jaysus, you must know me:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    Paulzx wrote: »
    Where did me being incompetent come from? Jaysus, you must know me:)
    Well then, you are lucky. :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    Who does that benefit? The people of London! Don't think so but its a great example of what I'm trying to prove. A city filthy rich (minority getting richer during recession) yet the average Joe is getting poorer. That can't be right! You're not suggesting thy we should be closer in statistics to our cockney cousins are you?

    Who do you suppose Ireland is competing against for inward investment. Which countries wage rates are more competive?

    I'm not sure you understand the basic economics of what you are asking for, namely that Ireland make itself less competitive and pay itself more.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    Who does that benefit? The people of London! Don't think so but its a great example of what I'm trying to prove. A city filthy rich (minority getting richer during recession) yet the average Joe is getting poorer. That can't be right! You're not suggesting thy we should be closer in statistics to our cockney cousins are you?


    I'd love to meet this "average Joe" guy people keep referring to, and the "ordinary people" in his "community".

    There was no mention of them during the "Celtic Tiger" years, but since the arse fell out of the property market, he seems to have become quite famous, as have these ordinary people in their community.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    I think average Joe means the OP.

    What sector do you work in OP that is doing so well that a raise is in order?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,372 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    MadsL wrote: »
    I think average Joe means the OP.

    What sector do you work in OP that is doing so well that a raise is in order?

    What I do is irrelevant. Averge Joe is somewhere in the 20-40 grand mark. Now decreasing his/her wages just makes them poorer while having the simultaneous effect of prolonging or burgeoning national debt. If this wealth grab and attitude continues we're gonna be left with nothing but a very elite, wealthy and controlling class that will be able to abuse that power way beyond financial wealth.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    What I do is irrelevant. Averge Joe is somewhere in the 20-40 grand mark. Now decreasing his/her wages just makes them poorer while having the simultaneous effect of prolonging or burgeoning national debt. If this wealth grab and attitude continues we're gonna be left with nothing but a very elite, wealthy and controlling class that will be able to abuse that power way beyond financial wealth.


    Average Joe is doing very well for himself then really, because to be an average Joe, he has to be earning less than some people (quite clearly OP this is your beef), but what about the people then earning less than average Joe? Or is it just that Average Joe isn't earning as much as Wealthy Joe?

    If Average Joe's work ethic is, y'know, average, then why should Average Joe expect to be paid the same as Wealthy Joe who has worked harder than Average Joe to become Wealthy Joe?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    What I do is irrelevant. Averge Joe is somewhere in the 20-40 grand mark. Now decreasing his/her wages just makes them poorer while having the simultaneous effect of prolonging or burgeoning national debt. If this wealth grab and attitude continues we're gonna be left with nothing but a very elite, wealthy and controlling class that will be able to abuse that power way beyond financial wealth.

    Increasing everyones wages makes goods and services inflate, and makes Ireland less competitive, which means fewer jobs and more emigration. Eventually, you will be left with a country with no-one in it but the securely paid and massively taxed.

    Deflating everyone's wage (including the public sector) means that you can benchmark against Europe and compete for jobs, which leads to wealth and prosperity, a growth in population and a more spread tax base giving people more disposable income which stimulates the economy further.

    Trying to raise wage in a economic downturn is a policy for deep depression. Look at union pressures on wages in the UK in the 70s.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    What rubbish!
    Jesus! most people outside of the public sector/Semi-state sector are lucky to have work at all.

    that attitude annoys me so much, I have my job because I work bloody hard, no luck about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,340 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    Its becoming harder to survive because the economy is still in a false state of contraction, very few yet some are still gaining in wealth, ordinary people have no spare money. More disposable income equals increased spending power equals growth equals easier conditions to survive for everybody. Neither employers or employee's can instigate this change in mindset, I'll give you that. Its got to he policy. Growth will wipe out our dept faster, contraction in wages actually prolongs the problem, in effect increasing the nation's debt.

    If ordinary people have no spare money who spent €6.3 billion on alcohol last year?

    Despite the state of the country’s finances, there was €6.3 billion spent on alcohol in 2012, up 1.2 per cent on 2011.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭Almaviva


    that attitude annoys me so much, I have my job because I work bloody hard, no luck about it.

    You are lucky to have to opportunity to work bloody hard.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,669 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    I'd like to be helpful here if I can, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say tbh.

    Are you trying to get a job in IT for the last 18 months now or are you saying that other people have been trying to get better jobs in IT for the last 18 months?

    To answer the OP - I think the minimum wage is far too high as it is, and some people are still living under the assumption that they should be entitled to what they feel they're worth.


    Try surviving on minimum wage.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,372 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    If ordinary people have no spare money who spent €6.3 billion on alcohol last year?

    Despite the state of the country’s finances, there was €6.3 billion spent on alcohol in 2012, up 1.2 per cent on 2011.


    Really! I'm trying to have a debate about whether or not wage increases are justifiable and you decide on an impromptu audition for the Sunday World. Come on, What next, who spent all the money on hash, coke.

    Increased substance abuse though for what its worth usually goes hand in hand with increased poverty so actually you might just be proving my point inadvertently.


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