Equality vs Common Sense

Ten of Swords

Should equality give way to common sense in some situations?

Iowa law enforcement officials are debating the wisdom of granting gun permits to blind people

Polk County officials said they have issued weapons permits to people who can't drive legally because of vision problems at least three times

A change in state law means a gun permit cannot be denied because of a physical disability. Visually impaired people still can't get a driving license though, weird

Article

lahalane

If common sense was taken into account there would be a lot of law changes. I think I would probably always favour common sense over equality. Cannot think of any situation I wouldn't.

donvito99

You're talking about America here.

Equality? Common sense? Does not compute.

Mickey H

Equality is all well and good, but equality & common sense shouldn't have to compete with one another.

Frank Black

Kinda depends whose common sense we're talking about.

Elbaston

Its equality to have a male babysitter.

Male babysitter anyone ??

Male midwife...??

nope?

BlurstMonkey

If they want to defend their home and their vision is poor they're best off with a shotgun. Great spread in a shotgun. Good chance they'll turn a blurry shape into a blurrier shape.

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tritium

Elbaston wrote: »

Its equality to have a male babysitter.

Male babysitter anyone ??

Male midwife...??

nope?

I think we had a thread on male babysitters here recently - no one seemed to have any issues.

My son was delivered by a male midwife - I couldn't praise the job he did highly enough -utterly fantastic

Chattastrophe!

Elbaston wrote: »

Its equality to have a male babysitter.

Male babysitter anyone ??

Male midwife...??

nope?

Don't see anything wrong with either.

Dravokivich

Ten of Swords wrote: »

A change in state law means a gun permit cannot be denied because of a physical disability.

Jaysus, surely you'd expect that means a physical disability that doesn't prevent them from using the gun properly.

Elbaston

well well, seems some people disagree, fair enough -

but quick stat - 2% of midwives in the USA are men 0.5% of midwives in the UK are men.

Also - when was the last time you saw a male babysitter advertised.

But each to their own. I guess its just their (and my) version of common sense vs those who think otherwise.

Just a case that ~98% and myself think differently.

Femme_Fatale

Elbaston wrote: »

well well, seems some people disagree, fair enough -

but quick stat - 2% of midwives in the USA are men 0.5% of midwives in the UK are men.

Also - when was the last time you saw a male babysitter advertised.

But each to their own. I guess its just their (and my) version of common sense vs those who think otherwise.

Just a case that ~98% and myself think differently.

I don't think that's anything to do with common sense, just a notion, based on tradition, that babysitters/midwives "should" be women (also, more sinister, the paedo fear in relation to male babysitters). But I can't see why men can't do the job just as well. Aren't lots of gynaecologists men?

To me, equality trumping common sense is e.g. gender quotas.

Aineoil

Madness reigns! You could not make this up!

Smidge

Elbaston wrote: »

Its equality to have a male babysitter.

Male babysitter anyone ??

Male midwife...??

nope?

Our child was delivered by a male midwife in a Dublin hospital.

Nothing weird about it at all. He did the same job as the female midwives and I don't think ANY woman in the throes of labour would think "I'm not having that man going anywhere near the business end"

Elbaston

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I don't think that's anything to do with common sense, just a notion, based on tradition, that babysitters/midwives "should" be women (also, more sinister, the paedo fear in relation to male babysitters). But I can't see why men can't do the job just as well. Aren't lots of gynaecologists men?

To me, equality trumping common sense is e.g. gender quotas.

If I was a woman giving birth Id personally want a woman to be helping me out, more precisely Id ideally want a woman who is a mother and who knows what the experience involved from a 1st person perspective.

Theres an experiential element that can't be appreciated by someone who lives every day with different body parts.
So imho, theres a practical element involved and it can't be put down to trend/tradition in the case of midwives.

- and so a case of common sense over equality.

The babysitter thing - big issue for some, not bothered getting into a debate over it, for me personally if I ever see a male babysitter advertised my common sense will say no. Others - feel free to choose.

Elbaston

Smidge wrote: »

Our child was delivered by a male midwife in a Dublin hospital.

Nothing weird about it at all. He did the same job as the female midwives and I don't think ANY woman in the throes of labour would think "I'm not having that man going anywhere near the business end"

is that to say he was a member of a predominately female team, or just by himself ?

Femme_Fatale

Elbaston wrote: »

If I was a woman giving birth Id personally want a woman to be helping me out, more precisely Id ideally want a woman who is a mother and who knows what the experience involved from a 1st person perspective.

Theres an experiential element that can't be appreciated by someone who lives every day with different body parts.
So imho, theres a practical element involved and it can't be put down to trend/tradition in the case of midwives.

- and so a case of common sense over equality.

Well your version of common sense (as is your right), don't think it's a universal one though, because a person who isn't a woman or a mother can still be an excellent midwife, and a woman/mother might not be so competent.

The babysitter thing - big issue for some, not bothered getting into a debate over it, for me personally if I ever see a male babysitter advertised my common sense will say no.

I'd say that's more paranoia than common sense.

Bepolite

I'd suggest telling the paralympic shooting team it's common sense they cant have a weapons permit. Should ignorance perhaps give way to enlightenment?

Elbaston

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I'd say that's more paranoia than common sense.

And the day I see a balance in genders for babysitter jobs on the jobs board of my local shop Ill agree with you.

Femme_Fatale

Elbaston wrote: »

And the day I see a balance in genders for babysitter jobs on the jobs board of my local shop Ill agree with you.

I don't see how a lack of ads for male babysitters indicates anything other than an irrational fear of male babysitters/the notion that babysitters should be girls (something ingrained in us in fairness) though.
I mean, you can be trusted with minding children - most fathers can be trusted with minding their children; why are men therefore so untrustworthy in this regard overall?

token101

I tend to think this case is a prime example where common sense should trump equality, or more accurately someone's rights.

April O Neill

Elbaston wrote: »

Its equality to have a male babysitter.

Male babysitter anyone ??

Male midwife...??

nope?

Male babysitters are indeed rare and likely a lot of people would be uncomfortable with the idea... but I can't see many people having a problem with a male midwife.

April O Neill

Elbaston wrote: »

but quick stat - 2% of midwives in the USA are men 0.5% of midwives in the UK are men.

What percentage of nurses in general are male? You need to take that into account too.

I'm not really sure what point you're making here - the nursing profession is open to men as much as women.

BattleCorp

donvito99 wrote: »

You're talking about America here.

Equality? Common sense? Does not compute.

I am in favour of gun ownership amongst law abiding, responsible people but I do think it is mental to give a blind person a gun though. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

And whether you think it is right or wrong, the blind guy in America has two things in his favour when it comes to the law. The right to not be discriminated against, and secondly, the right to have a gun for self defence.

Blind guy and gun = not a good combination.

Amirani

token101 wrote: »

I tend to think this case is a prime example where common sense should trump equality, or more accurately someone's rights.

I think there's quite a bit of misinterpretation of "equality" in this thread. For me, that would only be an equality issue if certain people were allowed to wear a niqab/face covering, while others weren't. Once a rule applies equally and consistently to everyone (and the rule isn't discriminatory in nature), it's not an equality issue as such in my view.

Ten of Swords

Bepolite wrote: »

I'd suggest telling the paralympic shooting team it's common sense they cant have a weapons permit.

Which athlete class are you referring to?

The IPC have 3 classification of athletes when it comes to shooting,
SH1 athletes (able to support firearm without assistance)
SH2 athletes (athletes support their firearm with a shooting stand)
SH3 athletes (visually impaired or blind athletes)

Currently there are no shooting events for SH3 athletes in the paralympics, only SH1 and SH2 (and their various sub-categories)

token101

NiallSparky wrote: »

I think there's quite a bit of misinterpretation of "equality" in this thread. For me, that would only be an equality issue if certain people were allowed to wear a niqab/face covering, while others weren't. Once a rule applies equally and consistently to everyone (and the rule isn't discriminatory in nature), it's not an equality issue as such in my view.

Well I would think that she'd argue that others can practice their religion whilst she can't, all the while ignoring the common sense difference between a concealable cross/hair covering and walking into a room full of toddlers with what's effectively a mask.