Need a router that can handle 100 wifi connections for the pub i work in???

properbo

hi.
can anyone just give me straight up answer on which router to purchase for the pub i work in... we have the home use vodafone huawei hg556a which can only handle 4 wifi connections @ once before it drops. not ideal @ all. been looking all over the web and getting 100 different answers. at this stage just want links or model to buy one rapid. if anyone can help out would much appreciated.

i will feed you and fill you with pints all day&night!!

Kagawa10

How big is the pub? How many rooms? Is the wifi for customers? What is the speed of your broadband with vodafone.

If that is just wireless broadband with a stick you havn't a hope of providing internet for 100 customers. I'd say you will need 50MB broadband at the minimun. Also do you know about usage allowance on those vodafone sticks. You could find yourself in for a hefty bill of thousands of euro. 15GB could be used up in an hour or less with 100 users depending on what there doing. 8MB broadband with vodafone simply wont work.

If you are serious about it then you will need to get in broadband for business that will be able to handle the connections or just a home broadband package like a 50MB Connection with UPC, you will need two or three of these ([urlhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Netgear-N150-Wireless-Access-Point/dp/B003T0A03A/ref=pd_cp_computers_2[/url] wireless access points spread around your pub connected to your main modem.

properbo

24mb. eircom are rolling out fiber at the moment and unbelievably they are not installing it on the main street where the pub is. something to do with royalties and money as usual. residential only!! what a joke.
it's for customers with phones/tablets/laptops etc. no real downloading is going on just to browse the web. so sick of the music & playlists i want to use online radio etc and if possible use the wifi rather using the lan. i have new ipod touch on the go so don't want have another laptop on the go plus less wires the better. i can get signal all over the pub. it's just the vodafone router can only handle 4 wifi (so it says on there site) so am i looking to install a switch or is there anything like a linksys that will do the job? say if every table was booked up and on there phones would be prob 100 connections @ once. i might assign more bandwidth just for the music and leave the rest to everyone else. thanks for your reply

Kagawa10

properbo wrote: »

24mb. eircom are rolling out fiber at the moment and unbelievably they are not installing it on the main street where the pub is. something to do with royalties and money as usual. residential only!! what a joke.
it's for customers with phones/tablets/laptops etc. no real downloading is going on just to browse the web. so sick of the music & playlists i want to use online radio etc and if possible use the wifi rather using the lan. i have new ipod touch on the go so don't want have another laptop on the go plus less wires the better. i can get signal all over the pub. it's just the vodafone router can only handle 4 wifi (so it says on there site) so am i looking to install a switch or is there anything like a linksys that will do the job? say if every table was booked up and on there phones would be prob 100 connections @ once. i might assign more bandwidth just for the music and leave the rest to everyone else. thanks for your reply

Whats your download allowance with Vodafone and what speed is the connection. If you expecting 100 users you will need three of these. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Netgear-N150-Wireless-Access-Point/dp/B003T0A03A/ref=pd_cp_computers_2

Torqay

The ASUS RT-AC66U is one of the best WLAN routers at the moment and it is compatible with DD-WRT and TomatoUSB. Not cheap though, price around €150.

Kagawa10

Torqay wrote: »

The ASUS RT-AC66U is one of the best WLAN routers at the moment and it is compatible with DD-WRT and TomatoUSB. Not cheap though, price around €150.

Probably need two or three for a hundred uses though

properbo

seen one today on ibood http://www.ibood.com/ie/en/

CreepingDeath

properbo wrote: »

it's for customers with phones/tablets/laptops etc. no real downloading is going on just to browse the web. so sick of the music & playlists i want to use online radio etc and if possible use the wifi rather using the lan.

Hold on there... you'll need someone to configure that properly for you.
You don't want to share your own personal network with a pub full of customers. You'll at least need a guest network/vlan feature for the general public.

I'm not experienced in business routers, only home ones, but this looks okay NetGear WAG102EU

It says it supports up to 128 simultaneous users.

Also, you should look into what legal liability you might have for any activity on your wifi network. If someone downloads movies, ebooks, child porn, launches hacker attacks etc on your wifi network, who is responsible ?

Pub neighbours might start to use your wifi network 24x7 if they can access it.

So, I'd probably recommend using WPA2 encryption and people can ask for the password or scribble a new password each week on a blackboard or something.

Agent Smith

would you actually have 150 people using it at one time?

My local pub seems to have wifi with eircom, and they have a seperate network for customers to use. Fast it is not. but perfectly fine for people to "check in" on facebook and what not.

gouche

Kagawa is right.

For that many users you're going to need at least 3 access points - no matter what router is being used.

You wouldn't be mad to try an enterprise Wif-Fi solution. Something like Ubiquiti Unifi.

Really good system for the price - you can get set of 3 access points for around €120.

You'll never serve 100 wireless connections with just one AP.
You'd probably max out the CPU of the AP before you got anywhere near it's max user count. As well as that you've interference to take into consideration as well.
At least with multiple access points you can have them on different frequencies to limit the effects.

CreepingDeath

Agent Smith wrote: »

would you actually have 150 people using it at one time?

Probably only during pub quizzes

irish_goat

There's not a hope 100 people in a pub will be using your wifi at any one time. Most people have data allowances now anyway so there's less need for wifi for phones.

properbo

i need it mainly for online music without the signal dropping. on a bizzy day or night everyone is there phones. it can't handle it. music stops boss says wheres the music!!! . there is no UPC and as i said eircom are rolling out fibre but not on the main street. i am using WPA2. i can blacklist mac address already and have done this to stop neighbors. that neargear looks the job. 128 simultaneous wireless clients is exactly what i need just couldn't find the correct words to find it!! thanks

properbo

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Probably only during pub quizzes

ha been there!!!

properbo

irish_goat wrote: »

There's not a hope 100 people in a pub will be using your wifi at any one time. Most people have data allowances now anyway so there's less need for wifi for phones.

i know i don't even use the wifi on mine. the 3g does the job. people think they need it!!

Torqay

Kagawa10 wrote: »

Probably need two or three for a hundred uses though

Not sure if that's enough, even the best domestic routers will struggle when it comes to 20 or 30 connected devices. With 100+ users you'll be looking for a professional high-density wireless deployment.

Kagawa10

properbo wrote: »

i need it mainly for online music without the signal dropping. on a bizzy day or night everyone is there phones. it can't handle it. music stops boss says wheres the music!!! . there is no UPC and as i said eircom are rolling out fibre but not on the main street. i am using WPA2. i can blacklist mac address already and have done this to stop neighbors. that neargear looks the job. 128 simultaneous wireless clients is exactly what i need just couldn't find the correct words to find it!! thanks

If you are using 3G there isn't a hope, and the download limit will be gone in a day. You could find yourself with a bill of 50,000 euro if on bill pay . 8MB Broadband anyway will not be enough for 100 users.
The video is stopping because you are using 3G which is ****e. 15GB will be used in no time and expect a hefty hefty bill. I think they charge something like 10c per MB over the 15GB allowance

CreepingDeath

properbo wrote: »

i need it mainly for online music without the signal dropping.

I just looked, I don't see a "quality of service" feature for that router I linked too. QOS would prioritise your music over the other traffic and help keep the music from lagging/dropping.

I assumed a business class router would have it, but I don't see it mentioned in the specifications / online manual for it.

Also you probably want "content filtering", to create a list of naughty things you don't want your customers to be looking at.

I've an old LinkSys 54G router and was able to put alternative firmware ( DD-WRT ) on it, so I get a lot more features for a simple home router than normal. I haven't compared it against the newer routers/business class routers out there.

So, I'd probably ignore that specific recommended router for your purposes.

BionicRasher

properbo wrote: »

hi.
can anyone just give me straight up answer on which router to purchase for the pub i work in... we have the home use vodafone huawei hg556a which can only handle 4 wifi connections @ once before it drops. not ideal @ all. been looking all over the web and getting 100 different answers. at this stage just want links or model to buy one rapid. if anyone can help out would much appreciated.

i will feed you and fill you with pints all day&night!!

I had that router at home for a few years and it deffo had more than 4 connections all active at once without issues - we had phones (by 5 some days), PC, Laptops x 3, Xbox, Wii all connected via WiFi and it never gave an issue (maybe required a reboot once every 6 months but thats about all)

Have you got the latest firmware?

My version had a field there which says something like "maximum number of devices", this can be found somewhere in the wifi settings I think.
I just set it to 128 or something like that

Sorry its a bit sketchy as I have had a new router now for a while so its been ages since I logged in to the admin area of this one

properbo

not using 3g on adsl. maybe DD-WRT could be the answer plus i must check out the QOS settings. the NetGear PROSAFE could be the job though. yes have the latest firmware installed. again thanks to everyone for your help.

Torqay

tui0hcg wrote: »

I just set it to 128 or something like that

That's only the number of maximum active DHCP leases, doesn't mean the router can deal with it.

Modern dual band routers can handle an insane amount of simultaneous TCP connections but the problem with 100 users is the channel utilisation.

Cuddlesworth

Torqay wrote: »

That's only the number of maximum active DHCP leases, doesn't mean the router can deal with it.

Modern dual band routers can handle an insane amount of simultaneous TCP connections but the problem with 100 users is the channel utilization.

At best, you want no more then 30 clients on a access point. That's not a limitation of the hardware, its a limitation of Wireless communication. Its a half duplex connection so it will drop packets like no tomorrow with more then that. Speed at that number of clients would be a huge issue too, its doubtful you would get more then .5mb at the best of times.

wheresmybeaver

If you wanted to try a different route you might get in touch with someone like o2 to see if they would install one of their WiFi access points in there for you. I've seen "o2 WiFi" stickers on a few pubs and restaurants around Ireland recently. Its all installed and managed by them and is configured to prevent abuse or excessive access by neighbors (and to prevent people accessing illegal services using your net connection). You might want to give o2 a call for more info, it might be worth a shot if its not too pricey. Practically every pub in the UK has something like this now.

whomitconcerns

http://www.sapido.com.tw/EN-new/product-gr297n-P02.htm

Covers 10000 square feet! :P

perfect for you. 3 high gain antennas, Supports up to 253 connections

Cuddlesworth

whomitconcerns wrote: »

http://www.sapido.com.tw/EN-new/product-gr297n-P02.htm

Covers 10000 square feet! :P

perfect for you. 3 high gain antennas, Supports up to 253 connections

That would actually break more then it fixes. If you increase the range, you increase the interference.

OP, what happens when one of your locals decides to start downloading child porn on your connection?

Torqay

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

That would actually break more then it fixes. If you increase the range, you increase the interference.

Exactly.

The point here is not to cover range but to provide service to many people in a rather confined area. In fact, you'll want to reduce the AP transmitter power to avoid interference.

Other tweaks involve increasing the beacon interval, disable low speed connections (802.11a/b), encourage people to use 5GHz (more useable channels) rather than 2.4 GHz. That's just the basics... Wireless is radio after all and radio can be such a b****.

BionicRasher

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

If you wanted to try a different route you might get in touch with someone like o2 to see if they would install one of their WiFi access points in there for you. I've seen "o2 WiFi" stickers on a few pubs and restaurants around Ireland recently. Its all installed and managed by them and is configured to prevent abuse or excessive access by neighbors (and to prevent people accessing illegal services using your net connection). You might want to give o2 a call for more info, it might be worth a shot if its not too pricey. Practically every pub in the UK has something like this now.

Great idea - let someone else manage it
http://www.eircom.net/wifihub/wifihubpartners/

'It's free and unlimited to users who are eircom Broadband, eMobile and Meteor customers. For those that are not, its free for the first 10 minutes. After that, they pay €1 until 12am that day.'

Overheal

http://reviews.cnet.com/routers/asus-rt-ac66u-802/4505-3319_7-35406080-2.html

Capable of handling over 300,000 unique sessions at a time. An average PC might use anywhere from a couple dozen to a couple hundred when connected. Dual Core processor for handling the traffic. An extremely robust router.

properbo

ahhhhhhhhh what 2 do!! will have proper read when get home from work. again peoples(boards) thanks so much. the ball is rolling now. pints are on the boss!!!

Torqay

Overheal wrote: »

http://reviews.cnet.com/routers/asus-rt-ac66u-802/4505-3319_7-35406080-2.html

Capable of handling over 300,000 unique sessions at a time. An average PC might use anywhere from a couple dozen to a couple hundred when connected. Dual Core processor for handling the traffic. An extremely robust router.

As I said before, one of the best WLAN routers on the market (and the new firmware seems to be build on openWRT).

But again, router quality alone does not overcome the radio-related problems with high-density wireless networks. You really need multiple APs with decent firmware, fine-tuned for the location, adjust the transmitting power to the requirements, promote 5 GHz, disable slow speed connectivity, use the same SSID for each band (to allow roaming), enable wireless isolation, disable conntrak/netfilter, decrease packet size, use short inactivity timers... the list of tweaks is sheer endless (I'm just looking at my DD-WRT interface here).

Bottom line: quality equipment, special aerials, proper site survey and a LOT of work is involved to get such a job done properly, not to mention a decent cable broadband connection. If you think you can just slap 3 or 4 routers around the place, connect them to a 4MB DSL connection and all is well, you're sorely mistaken.

Cuddlesworth

And then your into content filtering and logging. Last thing you want as a pub landlord is the flying squad dropping into your premises because of browser habits of your customers and neighbors.

But ignoring that, the main issue here is that the OP uses a Ipod to stream internet radio to the pub. This is getting all of the obvious problems of a shared connection.

A single access point, on a different 2.4ghz channel to the main pub(really only 1, 6 and 12 should be used) with full QOS applied to the Ipod would sort that problem out.

But ignoring the rest of the obvious issues is a long term mistake.