City Centre Transport Assessment Study

Telchak

Proposed revamp of Dublin city centre makes life easier for those on bike and foot
Frank McDonald


An artist’s impression of Westmoreland Street in Dublin as it would look following the reconfiguration of city centre traffic proposed by the National Transport Authority.

The most comprehensive assessment yet of traffic in Dublin city centre has concluded that most of it should go elsewhere. And the picture painted by the National Transport Authority (NTA) of the current state of play is far from flattering. In fact, it portrays a shambles.

College Green is plagued by “bus congestion, overcrowded bus stops and cluttered narrow footpaths”, while on Westmoreland Street pedestrians are “confined to a relatively narrow area containing trees, phone boxes, side-road entrances, front-of-shop promotions etc”.

See full story @ irishtimes.com

Interesting, if anything actually comes to fruition.

Edit: Just seen that this was mentioned in another thread. If that thread will do to discuss this, then feel free to delete.

bk

I look forward to reading the plan, looks like an excellent start

bk

I wonder will they also look to widen the footpaths on O'Connell Bridge and give pedestrians priority (longer and more frequent) at the traffic lights on O'Connell Bridge?

In conjunction with the rumoured plan to redevelop the quays with less road space, wider footpaths and cycling paths.

Thus connecting the two sides of the city better.

Cookie_Monster

Footpaths that width is the best thing that could happen to the CC, lets hope it actually gets done and not just tossed on a shelf somewhere to gather dust.
Still it sounds limited enough in it's scope, lets hope that is just the IT piece. Restricting College Green as they plan will lead to reduced traffic all around the area and scope for many more streets to be adjusted in the same way

Heroditas

Quite like what is being proposed here.
However, why do they feel the need to plant trees? It would look far better without them. Please let us see the buildings!

Cookie_Monster

Heroditas wrote: »

Quite like what is being proposed here.
However, why do they feel the need to plant trees? It would look far better without them. Please let us see the buildings!

I'd be the opposite, more trees and greenery everywhere, there are an awful lot of ugly buildings along there that need hiding. Looks far better, health and environmental benefits, almost a pity they couldn't run a canal up the middle too :pac:

bk

bk wrote: »

I wonder will they also look to widen the footpaths on O'Connell Bridge and give pedestrians priority (longer and more frequent) at the traffic lights on O'Connell Bridge?

Looking at the cycle paths at the center of Westmoreland St, I'm pretty certain they expect to continue these cycle paths onto O'Connell Bridge in the center and probably up the center of O'Connell Street too. And perhaps even the same on Dame St.

That is the only way it makes sense to have cycle lanes in the middle, if they have a good long run.

So I expect the plan also includes redevelopment of O'Connell Bridge and some changes on O'Connell St.

I've mixed feeling about trees too * however then can do a good job of reducing traffic noise.

* The trees should really be removed from College Green, giving a better view of Trinity and the Central Bank.

Jamie2k9

excellent news, has being a long time coming.

Larbre34

This on the day the off-peak DART capacity is being halved? Hilarious.

There are about 10 significant things need to happen before this utopia is even approached, among them the completion of all city centre LUAS objectives, the DART interconnector and consequent heavy rail capacity increase, removal of dangerous interfaces on the yet infantile cycle network, significant publicly funded Park and Ride facilities on all trunk approaches to the city centre - sometimes I think the NTA believe that cars either do or should vaporise on the city side of the M50

And the most significant impediment to ridding the space between the canals of the private car? 40 years of lost opportunity to provide quality, spacious city centre living for family groups, suitable for whole-life duration.

dowlingm

Plans aren't worth much if the "war on the car" people show up when it comes time to vote at DCC.

keith16

This looks really good. I love visiting European cities that have wide open spaces with no cars in sight. This would absolutely transform Dublin.

AlekSmart

Larbre34 wrote: »

This on the day the off-peak DART capacity is being halved? Hilarious.

There are about 10 significant things need to happen before this utopia is even approached, among them the completion of all city centre LUAS objectives, the DART interconnector and consequent heavy rail capacity increase, removal of dangerous interfaces on the yet infantile cycle network, significant publicly funded Park and Ride facilities on all trunk approaches to the city centre - sometimes I think the NTA believe that cars either do or should vaporise on the city side of the M50

And the most significant impediment to ridding the space between the canals of the private car? 40 years of lost opportunity to provide quality, spacious city centre living for family groups, suitable for whole-life duration.

You've got in one Larbre....no sign in that CG of the Blue P finger board to direct Private Cars into the Temple Bar Multi-Storey,is there.....?

The concept is fine,but the ability of our Administrators to commence the thing in the correct place is seriously in doubt.

Lapin

Heroditas wrote: »

Quite like what is being proposed here.
However, why do they feel the need to plant trees? It would look far better without them. Please let us see the buildings!

Getting rid of the poxy double decker buses would help too.

Eden Quay in particular (and many other places) is an eyesore with the damn things parked along the quay wall.

LXFlyer

Lapin wrote: »

Getting rid of the poxy double decker buses would help too.

Eden Quay in particular (and many other places) is an eyesore with the damn things parked along the quay wall.

Ah yes, lets just get rid of all the buses all together and everyone can walk.

At least think through your ideas - unless there are suitable alternatives that is not going to happen.

TheBandicoot

Is there a link anywhere to the actual document so we can properly read it?

Jamie2k9

lxflyer wrote: »

Ah yes, lets just get rid of all the buses all together and everyone can walk.

At least think through your ideas - unless there are suitable alternatives that is not going to happen.

To be fair Dublin and the UK are more less the only cities in Europe to have double deckers.

I personally would be in favour of some single level buses on the streets and surly they would make more sense on some of DB network of services.

If the UK changed we wouldn't be long following.....

LXFlyer

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Is there a link anywhere to the actual document so we can properly read it?

It was a leaked document - it isn't published yet.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

To be fair Dublin and the UK are more less the only cities in Europe to have double deckers.

I personally would be in favour of some single level buses on the streets and surly they would make more sense on some of DB network of services.

If the UK changed we wouldn't be long following.....

Indeed but most other European cities have alternative transport options.

Dublin doesn't - the alternative would be significantly higher numbers of vehicles on our streets.

paddyland

There really should be only single lane access for private cars everywhere within the canals. Take the quays as an example. Why must two lanes be barrelled through the whole way? Where the quay roadspace narrows, then the bus lane narrows too, or disappears altogether. No room for a cycle lane? No, sorry, two main traffic lanes take priority.

The capacity of these streets, regardless of how many traffic lanes there are, is only the same as the capacity of the junctions. Cutting the quays down to single lane each way would certainly cause much disruption for a while. But it is sustainable disruption in my view, in view that a drop in through traffic levels, a drop in speed, and smarter egress through junctions, would eventually alleviate the disruption.

Cutting the quays to single lane each way would facilitate a proper bus lane each way, proper bus stops that do not impede the bus lane, and room for a proper cycle lane each way. I would favour a cycle lane that runs full length along the quay wall (the right hand side) as there would be less impediment on that side, and less conflict with buses and other traffic, as there are quite a few right turn restrictions.

Having two lanes side by side for general traffic only serves one purpose, and that is constant overtaking, lane hopping and racing of cars on busy city streets. Having one lane only, removes the fear of another car getting the jump on you at the lights, and means everyone progresses at the same, steady and safe rate, from junction to junction.

There is a slow move towards blanket 30kph speeds in urban areas. I have mixed feelings about this, as I firmly believe each circumstance merits it's own consideration. But besides that, a 30kph speed limit, or indeed a 50kph speed limit, is much more enforceable, when it is not applied to wide streets with two or three marked lanes, or indeed, no road markings at all, but rather, to streets properly planned and laid out for that purpose.

D'Olier Street into College Street, Westmoreland Street onto O'Connell Bridge, Christchurch Place into High Street, all of these are traffic free-for-alls, poorly marked, far too wide, with no lane discipline whatsoever, and encouraging speeding, all alongside narrow and grossly overcrowded footpaths, with cyclists jostling for position too.

Many of these are old, long-standing streets. They were laid out in very different times. That is no reason why they cannot be relaid and designed to manage traffic firmly and decisively into single file, speed regulated, safe traffic flows. No overtaking. No lanes wide enough for two buses. No arbitrary unmarked junctions where traffic piles across, barging into each other's lane, racing to get ahead, with no management of the flow whatsoever.

That's the very first thing I would do. Cut every single street in Dublin down to single file, plus bus lane and or cycle lane. Clearly marked, and possibly even grade seperated, as many bus lanes in France are. Run bus lanes right to the stop line, and not ending thirty yards short, as at present. Narrow every junction down to clearly laid out, purposefully planned traffic flow, rather than wide, unmarked expanses of bare racing track as at present. Widen footpaths, taking over a whole traffic lane, where necessary.

Specific bus lanes and bus stopping areas, planned by bus drivers, who understand the size and path of a moving bus, sight lines, and free flow of passengers, rather than engineers who have never sat behind the wheel of a bus in their life. Just have a look at the bus lane on Samuel Beckett Bridge, if you want a prime example of road engineering that bears no relation to what it is supposed to cater for.

Involve bus drivers. Involve cyclists. Involve taxi drivers. Involve goods delivery drivers. They all need to use the infrastructure, and all have a better understanding of their own requirements than anyone else.

Well, it's a fairytale. Rotten Irish politics doesn't work that way, and we all know it. It's just a dream.

That username is already in use.

bk wrote: »

Looking at the cycle paths at the center of Westmoreland St, I'm pretty certain they expect to continue these cycle paths onto O'Connell Bridge in the center and probably up the center of O'Connell Street too. And perhaps even the same on Dame St.

That is the only way it makes sense to have cycle lanes in the middle, if they have a good long run.

So I expect the plan also includes redevelopment of O'Connell Bridge and some changes on O'Connell St.

I've mixed feeling about trees too * however then can do a good job of reducing traffic noise.

* The trees should really be removed from College Green, giving a better view of Trinity and the Central Bank.

Complete nonsense. :rolleyes:

paddyland

That username is already in use. wrote: »

Complete nonsense. :rolleyes:

That's a pointless contribution unless you elaborate a bit.

xper

lxflyer wrote: »

Originally Posted by TheBandicoot
Is there a link anywhere to the actual document so we can properly read it

It was a leaked document - it isn't published yet.

And the article is by Frank McDonald so there's all sorts of potential for agenda-pushing, kite flying and disinformation to be had. Pinches of salt recommended.


The overall proposal is encouraging and the mock-ups are certainly interesting though just those few are really very little to go on!

The Westmoreland Street pic seems to indicate there would be no bus stops at all there. With Suffolk St. apparently to be pedestrianised, it begs the question where do you get on and off on the south side of the city. No indication in the picture of how the future Metro North station entrance would be incorporated.

Indeed, while the article refers to the opportunity to transform these streets alongside the Luas build, there is no mention of accommodating any future Metro North construction. Are theNTA treating it as a dead project?

Similarly for the College Green mock-up, if the Lucan Luas line ever ends up being built, the terminus will take up a fair chunk of that pedestrian area. It would be great if they could eliminate the need to run any road traffic through here at all, as suggested in another thread in the Infrastructure forum. It would turn it into a spectacular public space. But I fear that would realistically require a road tunnel from Nassau St, Georges St and/or Pearse St to Westmoreland Street.

D'Olier St still looks like a busy mess!

But anyway, we don't have access to the full document, even in this draft form, so all this is just a tease.

Jamie2k9

lxflyer wrote: »

Indeed but most other European cities have alternative transport options.

Dublin doesn't - the alternative would be significantly higher numbers of vehicles on our streets.

Indeed there is that side of the arrangement.

Victor

bk wrote: »

* The trees should really be removed from College Green, giving a better view of Trinity and the Central Bank.

How about just trimming them so we can see the street lights?

Telchak

Traffic plan for Dublin may not see light of day, says council
Senior council officials say they had no input into National Transport Authority’s proposal

...
While the study is dated June 2013, the council’s roads and traffic department received it just two weeks ago, said Brendan O’Brien, the department’s head of technical services. “It wasn’t a joint plan and there’s a lot in that study which may never see the light of day,” he told city councillors.

It was “never intended to be anything other than a discussion document”, he said.
...

Source: irishtimes.com

...

LXFlyer

This is the problem with leaked documents. Perhaps whoever leaked it was hoping for exactly this result?