GAA sport coverage on saorview

stereomatic

I know it's a bit late in the 2013 GAA championship but does anybody have any thoughts on the coverage

In the minor hurling final it was on both TV3 (English commentary) and also on its sister channel 3e (Irish commentary) however analysis on both channels were the same, it seems odd to me. They could have just showed the game on 3e (and the full game and analysis on TV3) or provide Irish analysis on 3e rather than this redundancy

A replay is required in the senior final, I know it will be broadcast, but on what channel TV3 or RTE2

Any comments on the football coverage

Also any comments on TG4 coverage of ladies football and camogie and other GAA sports on Saorview

Finally if this thread exists or is not placed in the correct sub-forum I do apologise

marno21

Or they could've used the 2nd audio channel for Irish audio and saved the duplicate broadcasting, which is what they do with sport on S4C. But no, has to be broadcast twice.

STB

stereomatic wrote: »

I know it's a bit late in the 2013 GAA championship but does anybody have any thoughts on the coverage

In the minor hurling final it was on both TV3 (English commentary) and also on its sister channel 3e (Irish commentary) however analysis on both channels were the same, it seems odd to me. They could have just showed the game on 3e (and the full game and analysis on TV3) or provide Irish analysis on 3e rather than this redundancy

A replay is required in the senior final, I know it will be broadcast, but on what channel TV3 or RTE2

Any comments on the football coverage

Also any comments on TG4 coverage of ladies football and camogie and other GAA sports on Saorview

Finally if this thread exists or is not placed in the correct sub-forum I do apologise

Showing the games on Tv3 has been a disastrous decision by the GAA. The quality has been appalling both in terms of quality and punditry.

Due to the fact that neither TV3 nor 3e (nor TG4) for that matter have terrestrial HD output, the picture quality of the games is less than acceptable. This is particularly the case in hurling where the wide angle camera is so poor its difficult to know what is going on. Add to that the poor bit rate being outputted by these stations and its a recipe for unacceptable standards of broadcasting. I have seen better PQ from dog tracks in the UK.

The GAA need to rethink a strategy for insisting on a certain broadcast quality. We have a free to air platform since 2008 that offers the possibility of showing these magnificent games and the centre piece that is Croke Park off to the world in all its HD glory, but a commercial entity insists that it is owed something by the taxpayer in propping up its tx costs. Are they even using up to date quality links at these games they are broadcasting on TV3 ? Its not hard to work out who is who when looking at the links being supplied via 23.5E/0.8E/27.5W & 37.5W.

And yes there is NO reason that alternative audio streams should not be carried on the one broadcast output regardless of what station it is broadcast on.

My genuine fear is that ALL these games aren't being preserved in HD for start. Its 2013, not 1983.

The Cush

stereomatic wrote: »

A replay is required in the senior final, I know it will be broadcast, but on what channel TV3 or RTE2

RTÉ 2, they have the rights to broadcast the Senior Finals.

icdg

STB wrote: »

Showing the games on Tv3 has been a disastrous decision by the GAA. The quality has been appalling both in terms of quality and punditry.

The GAA don't care about the punditry. What they do care about is creating a market for the media rights. They don't want to revert to a situation where RTÉ can "name their price" for the media rights. Its in their interests that there's a bidding war and therefore that TV3 remain interested in broadcasting GAA.

Due to the fact that neither TV3 nor 3e (nor TG4) for that matter have terrestrial HD output, the picture quality of the games is less than acceptable. This is particularly the case in hurling where the wide angle camera is so poor its difficult to know what is going on. Add to that the poor bit rate being outputted by these stations and its a recipe for unacceptable standards of broadcasting. I have seen better PQ from dog tracks in the UK.

The GAA need to rethink a strategy for insisting on a certain broadcast quality. We have a free to air platform since 2008 that offers the possibility of showing these magnificent games and the centre piece that is Croke Park off to the world in all its HD glory, but a commercial entity insists that it is owed something by the taxpayer in propping up its tx costs. Are they even using up to date quality links at these games they are broadcasting on TV3 ? Its not hard to work out who is who when looking at the links being supplied via 23.5E/0.8E/27.5W & 37.5W.

And yes there is NO reason that alternative audio streams should not be carried on the one broadcast output regardless of what station it is broadcast on.

My genuine fear is that ALL these games aren't being preserved in HD for start. Its 2013, not 1983.

I'm still wondering why, it being 2013, all three Irish TV broadcasters are still completely adverse to using the red button - aside from for the catch-up services on UPC, it isn't used by any Irish broadcaster on any platform.

TV3 wouldn't do the Irish commentary at all given the choice, it was not the original plan but the first year they had the rights there was a bit of an outcry when this was learnt from the Irish language lobby and TV3 hastly threw the game on 3e with Irish commentary and they've done it ever since, perhaps prefering to pay the relatively cheap price for the commentary than deal with the outcry.

STB

icdg wrote: »

The GAA don't care about the punditry. What they do care about is creating a market for the media rights. They don't want to revert to a situation where RTÉ can "name their price" for the media rights. Its in their interests that there's a bidding war and therefore that TV3 remain interested in broadcasting GAA.

I can eventually get over the punditry if they lock up Mike Finnerty and remove all the cliches from his vocabulary.

My main gripe is the basic 1983 poor standard definition picture quality that is being offered by the alternative broadcaster.

The GAA themselves have long maintained that money is not their motivation for the rights breakup. Even taking that with the pinch of salt that it requires (given they reduced the games from 50-40 because of gate numbers), saying diversity has been good for the game would simply be untrue given the massive chasm that exists between the eventual product produced by one broadcaster over the other. One provides an enjoyable viewing experience, the other is cheap and tacky and poor in picture quality. The minimum quality standards that should be enforced are HD given the small number of games involved (40). It is not as if the money generated through advertising by these rights is prohibitive!

The next 3 year deal is up for renewal at the end of this year, so the OP's questions are timely. They need to get the International rights sorted. 1.5m was not enough. But before they sort that they must put in basic standards expected.

Of course the problem behind the HD/PQ issue is bigger than the rights themselves and its all to do with having a commercial broadcaster that refuses to pay for anything. That probably ties in to your question about interactivity etc.

icdg wrote: »

I'm still wondering why, it being 2013, all three Irish TV broadcasters are still completely adverse to using the red button - aside from for the catch-up services on UPC, it isn't used by any Irish broadcaster on any platform.

TV3 wouldn't do the Irish commentary at all given the choice, it was not the original plan but the first year they had the rights there was a bit of an outcry when this was learnt from the Irish language lobby and TV3 hastly threw the game on 3e with Irish commentary and they've done it ever since, perhaps prefering to pay the relatively cheap price for the commentary than deal with the outcry.

Broadcasters do not need to use an interactive service like the red button to provide alternative language streams. Alternative language streams are actually already provided through narrative/audio description services on certain programming. It could have been easily be done as an extra Irish/Eng audio language stream without having a needless simulcast on 3e.

Do you mean that a station could offer 2 games/one providing X game and Y as an alternative ?

If such a situation arose right now the answer is probably no. There is no further room on the Mux as the full 24 megs are utilised. The stat muxing going on at the moment is compressing the feck out of anything non HD.

So has the fight over how much Tv3 are willing to contribute to the carriage bills ever been resolved ? Given that was in relation to the carriage of 2 SD stations, one wonders how many years it will take for them to agree to HD carriage!

Given the €75m+ that RTE plowed into the DVB-T infrastructure that no-one wants to pay for, we now have a situation were a second mux is required for further HD/interactivity etc. It is also required to help the stifled and compressed Mux 1.

So as long as TV3 have GAA rights and the current situation continues with the Saorview platform, we are doomed to 1983 broadcast picture quality output for sports on that channel and TG4. People need to be told to get off the platform or play ball at this stage.

ICDG: One final thought, given that this is fairly topical with the rights for 2014-16 going out for tender in October, it might be interesting to see what others might think outside of tech geeks. I am thinking the GAA forum for a temp move.

The Cush

STB wrote: »

So has the fight over how much Tv3 are willing to contribute to the carriage bills ever been resolved ?

http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg1371.pdf

ComReg understands that contracts with RTÉ for the provision of DTT multiplexing services have yet to be completed.

Zardoz

The picture quality for the senior hurling final on RTE2 HD yesterday wasnt great .
There was an awful lot of motion blur and blockiness .

Antenna

Zardoz wrote: »

The picture quality for the senior hurling final on RTE2 HD yesterday wasnt great .
There was an awful lot of motion blur and blockiness .

Motion blur when the camera pans during fast moving sports I'm afraid is part and parcel of the lossyness of MPEG4 compression. Your TV picture changes 25 times per second (25 frames per second) normally there is not too much change in the picture from one frame to the next, but when there is, something has to give, with 'lossy compression'. A higher bit rate would improve matters.
Years ago back when everything in the broadcast chain was analogue and onto a good CRT at the end (and you had good reception), there was in fact better clarity during fast moving action/camera panning during hurling etc.

RTE 2HD looks great during slow motion replays, but live fast action, with a lot of camera panning from one end of the pitch to the other, is a different story.

Its going to be a lot more noticeable with hurling than other sports due to the nature of the game.

Zardoz

Antenna wrote: »

Motion blur when the camera pans during fast moving sports I'm afraid is part and parcel of the lossyness of MPEG4 compression. A higher bit rate would improve matters.
Years ago back when everything in the broadcast chain was analogue and onto a CRT at the end (and you had good reception), there was in fact better clarity during fast moving action/camera panning during hurling etc.

RTE 2HD looks great during slow motion replay, but live fast action, with a lot of camera panning from one end of the pitch to the other, is a different story.

Its going to be a lot more noticeable with hurling than other sports due to the nature of the game.

Thats true but the picture quality yesterday was much poorer than previous hurling matches I have watched in HD.

The pitch looked very blotchy in places as if alot of compression was being used .

I know RTE and most providers in Europe transmit sport in 720p but the picture quality seems to vary greatly.
It could be down to the bit rate and compression I guess.

icdg

STB wrote: »

ICDG: One final thought, given that this is fairly topical with the rights for 2014-16 going out for tender in October, it might be interesting to see what others might think outside of tech geeks. I am thinking the GAA forum for a temp move.

I've no strong feelings on this one way or another - but - bear in mind, a move is one way. Once it goes there its up to the GAA mods to move back if they want to, its out of my control. So do people want it moved?

TAFKAlawhec

Zardoz wrote: »

Thats true but the picture quality yesterday was much poorer than previous hurling matches I have watched in HD.

The pitch looked very blotchy in places as if alot of compression was being used .

I know RTE and most providers in Europe transmit sport in 720p but the picture quality seems to vary greatly.
It could be down to the bit rate and compression I guess.

RTÉ Two HD is 1080i.

As for punditry - TV3 match day punditry is OK by me, better than the stale egofest that is RTÉ.

Zardoz

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

RTÉ Two HD is 1080i.

As for punditry - TV3 match day punditry is OK by me, better than the stale egofest that is RTÉ.

It may be transmitted in 1080i but its shot in 720p .

stereomatic

STB wrote: »

ICDG: One final thought, given that this is fairly topical with the rights for 2014-16 going out for tender in October, it might be interesting to see what others might think outside of tech geeks. I am thinking the GAA forum for a temp move.

icdg wrote: »

I've no strong feelings on this one way or another - but - bear in mind, a move is one way. Once it goes there its up to the GAA mods to move back if they want to, its out of my control. So do people want it moved?

Is it not possible to share the thread with the GAA and Tech fora/forums?

Digifriendly

Was Camogie final in SD rather than HD? It seemed this way to me.

TAFKAlawhec

Zardoz wrote: »

It may be transmitted in 1080i but its shot in 720p .

They've a strange way of going about things then - certainly the pictures of HD sports on RTÉ Two give a significantly better sharpness that 1080 lines bring over 720 compared to 576 lines for SD. Either that or the upscalers at Montrose are exceedingly good.

IMO 720 lines are a bit wasted in countries that are originally PAL or SECAM with 625 analogue lines (576i), giving only a quarter extra horizontal lines as opposed to 87.5% extra that 1080 gives. The difference in progressive and interlacing is another matter.

Antenna

Not a Saorview confined issue but I saw some of 'Up for the Match' on RTE1 last night and an interview with one of the surviving players from the last time Mayo won (1951) who was in the audience.

They played some (was b/w as you would expect) footage from 1951 but with absolutely appalling picture quality. It was like a poor youtube video being copied and then suffering from yet more lossy compression in whatever editing was done afterwards.

The quality was so poor was there any point in playing it?

The original film would have had far better detail than what was played out last night.

Could RTE not have sought a better quality copy of the original from whoever archives it?