Not your typical cycling problem.

Dcully

So im back cycling 2 weeks after 10+ years and its going well-ish
Im just home from a 39k spin average of 25.5 kmph,plenty of wind and some hills no athlete pace but for my level im very happy with that.
In short im progressing well in 2 weeks,ive clocked up 339k so far.
I seem to have got over the initial saddle sore but now im struggling in a different way.
10 years ago i had a bad accident at work which almost cost me my left leg from a crush injury,it was touch and go for 4 months as gangrene set in which did result in the amputation of my big toe.
The net result is i have 2 long plates and 30+ screws keeping things together from the shin area down into the foot and ankle,very poor circulation from the nature of the crush,doctors say the screws and plates will never come out as i simply dont have the healing power because of the poor circulation
Its goes from painful to very painful in around the ankle area depending on how much im on my feet.
Earlier in the year i hit the gym on a mission to get properly fit again but it lead to a lot of frustration from pain no matter what i done.
Cycling on the gym bikes turned out to offer the less amount of pain but it was incredibly boring hence why i decided to take the plunge out onto the real road yes its painful but nothing compared to threadmill,cross trainer etc
I can deal with this pain on the bike as best as i can ,i attend pain management sessions [not sure if they really help] but what gets me is the numbness in the area around where the big toe was amputated ie the worst circulation.
Its hard to explain as its different from the direct pain in the ankle area but its just a horrible sensation and gets a lot worse when out on the bike.
Im wearing a light pair of running shoes and normal white socks,wearing an extra pair of socks doesnt help.
Obviously when cycling the front part of ones foot takes the majority of the pressure from the pedals,not really an issue for most people but for me its very uncomfortable,its slowing me down as im constantly taking the left leg out of the toe clips and shaking it around a bit.
Try a strong pair of cycling shoes i hear you say but here lies another issue , i tried on some cycling shoes hoping they might help this numbness but with the nature of the lower leg reconstruction my foot/ankle area is now larger than my other foot as they had to put screws and plates in areas they dont normally do in order to save the leg.
Its a real catch 22 for me, these pieces of metal push against footwear and cause more discomfort hence why footwear has to be chosen very carefully , its not just a case of going into a shop and buying a pair of shoes/runners.
With some footwear the screws can be literally sitting on the top of the shoe on the outer ankle area in particular resulting in too much pain to even consider a purchase.
The few cycling shoes i tried had this exact issue and even walking a few feet i could feel the screws rubbing against the shoe on the inside and also one large screws sitting on top of the outer shoe on the outside of the foot.
This is all incredibly frustrating,ive finally taken the plunge and bought a bike,some gear,gaining in the fitness area and am happy with how its going in general.
If i only had the leg/ankle pain i could soldier through it but this numbness and phantom pain as they call it from the amputation in the big toe/foot area is really a horrible sensation,its freezing cold even still 40 mins after getting off the bike
Probably a long shot but im wondering if anybody has had a similar experience or can offer some advice?
I really want to keep at it,im enjoying it,im enjoying seeing the fitness come on in leaps and bounds.
Either way im going to soldier on regardless,anything to help me along the way would be just awesome.

If you read all of this fair play to you, i seemed to add in more info than i intended.

Fatbiker

Fair play to you. I hope you get it sorted. Some of us only think we have problems, fat, lazy, it's raining etc. Best of luck. FB

Inquitus

Have you considered trying spd MTB type shoes? they have a rigid sole same as road shoes to help spread the pedal pressure but come in a runner like form.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/northwave-mission-2013/rp-prod91016

Something along those lines?

Dcully

Inquitus wrote: »

Have you considered trying spd MTB type shoes? they have a rigid sole same as road shoes to help spread the pedal pressure but come in a runner like form.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/northwave-mission-2013/rp-prod91016

Something along those lines?

Thanks for that.
Never knew anything like that existed,any bricks and mortar stores i could maybe try on something similar?
You see i just have to try stuff on before i can buy them to see if i can wear them with the screws and metal scenario then hope they help the numbness issue which takes longer to find out and would require a purchase.
If only some where would loan them out

desertcircus

Most cycle shops will have a range of them; Wheelworx near Liffey Valley are quite pleasant to deal with. If you ring them and explain the situation, they might be able to arrange for you to try them out on a turbo trainer to make sure you get the right shoes.

Seaneh

desertcircus wrote: »

Most cycle shops will have a range of them; Wheelworx near Liffey Valley are quite pleasant to deal with. If you ring them and explain the situation, they might be able to arrange for you to try them out on a turbo trainer to make sure you get the right shoes.

Maybe compression socks might help stave off the numbness a bit too?

rollingscone

OP there but for the grace of Zod go I...my right knee is triangular and rebuilt around a wire cage.

It might be possible to get a custom shoe built since for SPDs in particular all you need is a rigid sole with the two slots for the cleats.

There are also SPD sandals which might help you work around the bulges if you're comfortable with that (took me a few years to get comfortable with having my knee on display.

25.5kph average is nothing to sniff at either.

vistafinder

I was just after picking up a magazine that was on my seat before I opened up the lap top and this was what was in it!

Persistence
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.

Talent will not;nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent.

Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.

Education will not;the world is full of educated derelicts.

Persistence and determimation alone are omnipotent.

Persistence has solved and always solve the problems of the human race.

The only advice I can give is waterproof socks to keep your foot warm and overshoes.. loose because too tight can cut off circulation.
And keep trying. Best of luck

cdaly_

I'd second the custom made shoes thing. In particular, it might be possible to take the soles off a standard MTB shoe and build the custom one around that?

Failing the custom cycling shoe, maybe big platform pedals might spread the load across your whole foot though you will get a better setup from cycling shoes in the first place.

No Pants

Make sure to try different brands of shoes as they're not all the same in terms of fit, even if they're officially the same size.

joey100

Maybe have a look at a pair of triathlon shoes too, tend to have a bigger opening for the ankle. I wear both and the triathlon shoes feel very different to the road shoes, much looser around the ankle and not as snug fitting. From my experience Shimano tri shoes have a good bit of room around the ankle. Best of luck.

cdaly_

Dcully wrote: »

You see i just have to try stuff on before i can buy them to see if i can wear them with the screws and metal scenario then hope they help the numbness issue which takes longer to find out and would require a purchase.
If only some where would loan them out

I have a pair of SPD sandals in a size 43 if you want to try them out (not many shops would carry them). If you're handy to Northside Dublin...


Another thing to consider is your cadence (pedalling speed) on the bike. Lower gear with higher cadence puts much less pressure on your legs/feet and might make things easier...

smacl

Neoprene overshoes will help keep your feet warm, which is essential if you've poor circulation cycling once it gets colder.

I'd tend to agree with _cdaly that big platform pedals might help in spreading the load, and give you the option of moving the foot around the pedal. If you go for a SPD pedal with a platform you can still clip in while spreading the load on your foot with a slightly softer shoe. The ones linked can be used with or without cleats, so would also be fine with ordinary runners.

Qualitymark

I wonder would cycling on a recumbent rather than an upright bike be easier for you. Not sure where you could try this out - anyone…?
The difference with a recumbent is that different muscles are used, back muscles mostly, I think.
The look of them makes me a bit antsy in city traffic - they seem too low to be seen by drivers. But for country rides it might be just the thing.

Dcully

Some great suggestions folks, thanks so much.

Peterx

what is the shoe size and where are you based?

I have size (UK) 8.5 and 9 and I think 9.5 spd shoes you can try out if either Dublin city or Ballyboden are suitable for you to pick up from.

A whole other option is a triathlon adaptor plate which would enable you to wear your running shoe - something like this - http://www.pyroplatforms.com/Page2.html

pelevin

No suggestions on the technical side of things but in terms of improved circulation have you tried cayenne pepper? Obviously yours is an extreme case but I regularly take a pinch of cayenne powder - the hotter the better - directly in the mouth and then wash it down with some water, warm water perhaps the better option. It certainly is a very good & powerful aid to circulation. An easier way might be to mix with a little yoghurt, which i used to do but now prefer the above method.

A very quick google yielded this site:
http://www.cayennepepper.info/cayenne-pepper-testimonials.html

Dunno if rubbing the cayenne as part of some paste directly onto the leg might be feasible.

Dcully

Thanks folks.
@ pelevin Yes ive tried that cayenne pepper,in a few forms actually, even had some injected into the area.
Also had an intravenous block carried out, absolutely horrible procedure ,im just cringing thinking about it :eek:

@ Peterx thanks very much also,ive been trying out different types of footwear since i started this thread and dont seem to be getting anywhere.
Spent a few mins pushing hard on a turbo trainer with a few pairs in eurocycles and numbness within minutes.

At this stage its down to management and just putting up with it i think and just try make things as comfy as possible.
Im not gonna let this stop me cycling,ive come too far with the only real exercise i can manage with this injury.
Its tough but feck it - it could we a hell of a lot worse.
I count myself lucky to be able to hit the open road.
Im just back from a 43k spin average of 24kmph,ankle in a bit of pain nothing more than usual,still numbness and very cold in the soul of foot and big toe area but thats another 43k under the belt and im getting stronger and fitter by the week.
Week 4 complete and 730 k under the belt, thats 730 k more than i ever thought possible 4 weeks ago.
Now im wondering just how fit i can get with this cycling?

I seem to be developing another niggling issue totally unrelated.
Now im able to do longer spins im finding some days during the cycle im full of wind and burping on and off, feels uncomfortable at times but nothing major, wife said it could be a hernia issue?
I rarely cycle after food, usually try do do a morning spin and dont hit the road until about 45 - 60 mins after my porridge.

BadCharlie

Reduce the amount you eat before going out?
I know with my kids they dont eat all the Porridge, i go and eat what they left over "very small amount".

I can't eat at all for an hour and a half before i go running/soccer/gaa ect or i be in bits with burping and stitches.

Dcully

BadCharlie wrote: »

Reduce the amount you eat before going out?
I know with my kids they dont eat all the Porridge, i go and eat what they left over "very small amount".

I can't eat at all for an hour and a half before i go running/soccer/gaa ect or i be in bits with burping and stitches.

Yeah i only eat one of those microwaveable packet thingys, they are tiny,make about a quarter of a regular bowl.
But you could be right,even that might be too much.
ALso maybe i should leave it longer afterwards before heading out.

trad

If you can make contact with Dennis Brennan from Bray / Greystones area he suffered a similar injury in the 70's and last I saw he was still cycling.

He might give you some of his insight.

Joxer_S

The extra cost would be annoying, but would getting a larger size shoe for the injured foot help? I know you said that extra socks don't really help, but maybe having the extra bit of space in the shoe to add padding and warmth in whatever form is best might be an option

Dcully

Joxer_S wrote: »

The extra cost would be annoying, but would getting a larger size shoe for the injured foot help? I know you said that extra socks don't really help, but maybe having the extra bit of space in the shoe to add padding and warmth in whatever form is best might be an option

Tried that but thanks anyways

biketard

Don't have much of an answer for you, Dcully, but just wanted to wish you the best of luck. I'm very impressed that you're still going despite the additional difficulties that most of us don't even have to think about.

When you checked out MTB-style SPD shoes, did you also try the ones that are almost like hiking boots? I have to wear orthotic insoles, and they tend to push my heels up a bit, meaning I have a lot of problems with shoes with low ankle areas. I often find that boot-like options work well for me as they support my feet better without having to tighten them too much. That also helps to stop cutting off circulation of course.

These, for example (additional bonus is they're waterproof, so could help with the cold a bit):
http://www.bikepacking.net/reviews/shoes/shimano-mt90/

About the diet thing, I've found I can only really safely eat some toast or something before a ride. Toast, butter and jam seems to give me a decent amount of energy without messing up my stomach.

kuro_man

might be worth checking saddle height and saddle width, to make sure they are not impeding your circulation. Gel shorts may help.

Are your legs slightly asymmetrical? Maybe a longer/shorter crank arm on one side might help.

Dcully

Well guys im still soldiering on.
Getting out on the bike 3-4 times a week trying to clock up 120-150k per week, done my longest solo spin so far this morning 61k.
Home 30 mins and not a bother on me thank God,usual numbness in foot when out on the bike but fine now,dont feel like ive done 60k ,its amazing what 6 weeks of hard work can do.
I almost always do high cadence on my spins to take pressure offf toe,ankle,sole of foot.
Seems to help with fitness bigtime.

http://www.strava.com/activities/88974551

rollingscone

That's a better routine than I'm keeping up at the moment without your hurdles. Well done mate.

Dcully

rollingscone wrote: »

That's a better routine than I'm keeping up at the moment without your hurdles. Well done mate.

Thanks mate, not sure how long ill keep that up for.
Im just pushing to try get to an acceptable level as soon as i can,perferably before the winter.
Apparently rest days are very important too?

Also im wondering what difference does ones bike really make?
I bought a Carrera TDF, not the best bike, seems very heavy compared to bikes that cost 1-2k.
I bought it as i heard its a good starting bike but im wondering if i was to go with something better with i benefit and do i actually need to?
Im thinking of joining a local club and want to give myself every chance of keeping up with them lads

hans aus dtschl

I obviously have nothing to compare with what's going on with your foot, but I've been caught in the snow in normal runners a few times, and found these useful recently: http://www.kobayashihealthcare.co.uk/HotHands

May be no help, may be some help.

As for indigestion, maybe you're eating something you shouldn't? I get awful indigestion from running after drinking something acidic. Orange juice, etc messes with my stomach a bit. I've absolutely no problem with acidic foods other than that - I drink a lot of orange juice - but exercise soon after gives problems.

Billycake

I'm not sure if it will be of any help to you but there's a guy in Australia called Steve Hogg who is acknowledged as something of an expert on bikefit and issues / problems relating to it with all kinds of cyclists from leisure cyclists to pros. He really is worth checking out, I've used his recommendations for years and they've always worked out for me (I've had back surgery btw). He has a subscription only Q&A section on his website that may be of use to you as you can ask away to your hearts content. He always responds with detailed answers and suggestions. There's a fair bit of free stuff on there too if you have the time to read through it and search.

The website is: www.stevehoggbikefitting.com

Best of luck with it and keep at it.

cdaly_

Dcully wrote: »

Also im wondering what difference does ones bike really make?
I bought a Carrera TDF, not the best bike, seems very heavy compared to bikes that cost 1-2k.
I bought it as i heard its a good starting bike but im wondering if i was to go with something better with i benefit and do i actually need to?
Im thinking of joining a local club and want to give myself every chance of keeping up with them lads

A lighter bike will help somewhat in climbing but not really anywhere else. Thing to remember is that the couple of kg you might buy off the weight of a bike could as easily come off the belly. If you join up with a club you'll find they have a mix of abilities among the riders and you'll find a group you're up to speed with.

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I obviously have nothing to compare with what's going on with your foot, but I've been caught in the snow in normal runners a few times, and found these useful recently: http://www.kobayashihealthcare.co.uk/HotHands

I've used these or similar in the past and they're great. If you have an issue with numbness, you'd need to be somewhat wary as you might not feel a burn. Worth a tryout though. You can sometimes get them in Tesco but much cheaper on Amazon.

BadCharlie

Have the same road bike the Carrera TDF, the wheels on it are about 3kg and a little over. I know im thinking of getting something in the range of 1.6kg. The bigest improvment on the Carrera TDF would be the wheels. Then after that it would be buy a better bike. One thing i say about the heavy wheels that they are ment to be bomb proof as some say.

Dcully

I thought id update this,im still soldiering on guys.
Since i got a decent pair of cycling shoes [not the best of gear but for said condition they just work] its helped a lot,funny how shoes for €200 + were no use but ones for €20 in Aldi have helped so much.
These shoes combined with a mostly high cadence cycling as suggested on this thread has worked wonders.

Unfortunately and only recently i suffer from seasonal asthma and always when the weather turns cold.
Since last week i can feel it out on the bike as its got colder especially for the first 20-30 mins.
I really dont know how it will affect me over the colder months but i hope to God i dont have to park the bike and hit the gym.

Jaysus just reading that i sound like a wreck lol.

According to strava ive clocked up 1,900km ,elevation gain of 7,000m in 11 weeks averaging 152km per week,average of 4 rides per week.
Nothing compared to a lot of impressive cyclists who frequent this forum i know
Im not the fastest by any means,infact im below average if strava segments is anything to go by but feck it i hit 43 two weeks back im not 23 anymore but man i feel great and fitter than ive been in 10 years.
I could never in a million years have got to this stage if it wasnt for cycling.
I plan to continue on as the benefits of cycling again seem literally massive on so many levels.

This mornings spin

http://www.strava.com/activities/94838533

People who made the effort to respond to this thread i have to say thanks,its helped me keep going when i just felt like throwing in the towel as it was such a struggle for about 4 weeks in the beginning.
Even the other cyclists i meet out on the roads who offer a wave,a nod of the head or shout hello ,it always brings a smile to my face.
Ofcourse you get the posers with the best of gear who wouldnt look my direction,strangely that gives me a chuckle and a smile too

Daroxtar

I'm asthmatic and the cold used to play hell with me, I couldn't run for a bus in the cold without needing the ventolin. I know we can't give medical advice on here but my doctor switched my inhaler a few years ago and it really brought my asthma under control. TBH I'm a bit disappointed I never got it sorted when I was younger, could have made a big difference to me back then, could've been a contender :pac:
Maybe you should have a chat with your GP about your meds and find out if you are on the best one for you?
I still find the first 15-20 minutes of a cycle a bit tight but once I get that out of the way I can really power along at a decent pace.

rollingscone

Re the asthma I can't give you advice on medical responses but I think your gp will be to.

However my lungs are nearly as shredded as my knees but since I started using Graeme Obree's breathing technique for both running and cycling I haven't had a wheeze.

In essence it's all about keeping the tip of your tongue on the roof of your mouth so that the air is warmed by your tongue before it hits your lungs.

pelevin

Dcully wrote: »

Thanks folks.
@ pelevin Yes ive tried that cayenne pepper,in a few forms actually, even had some injected into the area.
Also had an intravenous block carried out, absolutely horrible procedure ,im just cringing thinking about it :eek:

Sounds like you've covered this already so but just mentioning I bought couple of tinctures of cayenne extract yesterday as well as some other stuff from linked US site which seems to offer very reasonable pricing & shipping. All the stuff I got is Dr Christopher stuff.

Tissue & Bone Ointment:

http://www.mynaturalmarket.com/dr-christopher-complete-tissue-and-bone-ointment-4-oz.html?%3CosCsid%3E

Not sure which ointment I bought(!) but he also has a Cayenne Heat Ointment . . . though as said again seems you've without effect gone this path already.

mcgratheoin

Dcully wrote: »

I really dont know how it will affect me over the colder months but i hope to God i dont have to park the bike and hit the gym.

Do you have a turbo trainer? If you're struggling with the cold and you want to keep up your cycling, then this would be a valuable investment - not too expensive and you could still get your spins in, albeit in front of the TV instead of out on the road.

The Ging and I

Hot pads will keep your feet warmer so might help with circulation.

NeedMoreGears

......According to strava ive clocked up 1,900km ,elevation gain of 7,000m in 11 weeks averaging 152km per week,average of 4 rides per week.
Nothing compared to a lot of impressive cyclists who frequent this forum i know......

I dunno about that - at that rate you're doing nearly 9,000 per annum. I'll be very happy to manage about the same* this year with about 2/3 coming from commutes


* ok ok a bit less (maybe 8,000)

ericzeking

Browsing Rose just there I came across these, may be of use to you man...great thread, fair play to you

http://www.rosebikes.com/article/pyro-platforms/aid:38027/fromtopoffers:1

biketard

Hey, Dcully,

Good to see you're doing so well. My breathing also suffers in winter. You might want to have a look at this thread, if you haven't already done so:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057032650

There are also some threads in the Athletics / Running and Health & Fitness forums about this.

carltonleon

Dcully,

Have you tried these for your toes ?

http://www.algeos.com/little_hotties_toe_warmers.html

http://www.bestinsoles.com/Little-Hotties_c_205.html

May be worth a try

Fair play to you for keeping going, shows a real mental strength.

Dcully

Well im almost over a 10 day bout of chest infection on top of the damn asthma.
Stayed off the bike for 3 days before it set in hoping to keep it at bay as i could feel it coming on.
The net result is zero miles in 13 days
Im guaranteed one every year,this year it only took 2-3 weeks after the weather got a tad colder im hit
My doctor isnt too keen on the cycling in cold weather at all.
Typically the last 10 days have been very mild and would have been lovely to get some miles in before the real cold arrives.
Reluctantly i think i might have to do less spins over the winter,very tempted to get a turbo trainer if i can get one not too expensive.

Dcully

Long time since i updated this and no time like the present thanks to a fresh injury

Before i get to that thanks to all the advice offered im still going strong and stronger than ever.
New bike purchased 2 months back has helped a lot,im now doing regular sportives in the 80k-120k range,even clocked up 350k in 7 days last week.
Still some pain on the bad ankle and toe but a good pair of loose fitting shoes and cleats helped here bigtime.
Im now the fittest ive been since my accident and its 100% down to cycling.

Unfortunately at last weekends Westportif i was caught up in a crash that happened a few feet ahead of me and about 5 of us came down,i came down hard at about 30 kmph onto the road and the net result is 2 broken ribs confirmed today by xray.
I soldiered on last week with the great weather as on the bike the pain wasnt bad but walking even about the house,lying in bed or sitting in certain positions is very painful.
When i asked the doctor about cycling during the expected 6+ weeks recovery time he said just listen to your body,if your pain free to cycle go for it.
Im wondering if any boardsies cycled on with broken ribs?

I really dont want to quit now as ive a nice momentum going especially since i will more than likely have to quit again for the winter months with asthma

Im keen to hear from others with similar rib injuries and cycling.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I'm going to suggest carbon sole shoes and push the cleats back as far as they go so that the pedal is behind the ball of your foot rather than under it. You can even drill the soles further back and place the clear under your foot arch (there are a few videos on YouTube about it) that way the pressure is off the front of your foot completely and it may help alleviate the numbness you experience.

Unknown Soldier

Dcully wrote: »

When i asked the doctor about cycling during the expected 6+ weeks recovery time he said just listen to your body,if your pain free to cycle go for it.
Im wondering if any boardsies cycled on with broken ribs?

I really dont want to quit now as ive a nice momentum going especially since i will more than likely have to quit again for the winter months with asthma

Im keen to hear from others with similar rib injuries and cycling.

I was OK cycling with broken ribs. Hitting a bump brought out a "Jaysusssssss" from me.

Getting out of bed was very sore for about four weeks. Driving the car and having to twist around wasn't nice either.

Being a smoker and coughing was pure hell.

I did stop cycling after the first week or so, for about two weeks, as I was convinced by others that it would help me heal. ( I lost a lot of cycling fitness over two weeks)

If it's sore, don't do it? That's the function of pain, in simple terms. When I was cycling the top half of my body wasn't really doing much tbh.

On reflection, getting out of bed in the mornings was the worst

It does take about 6-8 weeks btw. Avoid painkillers.

I'm not the cleverest in the world.