Have you received a fine for speeding in Blanchardstown?

Saab Ed

If you have then you'd better read this.

A work colleague received a fine and notice of penalty points for speeding on the M3 a couple of months ago. It was just as it passes the old Quinn building where they were doing roadworks and temporary speed limit signs had been put in place. The normal limit there was 100 kph but during the roadworks a sign suggested it was dropped to 60. My colleague received a notice saying he was doing 83 in a 60 zone. Job done so you think! Well .....

When he told me this I suggested that he question had a new by-law been enacted so that the new limit was enforceable. He didn't question it but by coincidence one of his neighbours got a similar fine and did question the by-law. Wouldn't you know it , no by-law enacted. Basically all fines issued here during this time were total bull****. My colleague then contacted the lovely penalty points people and they've refunded his money plus they're going to rescind the points.

The moral here is the people supposed to be enforcing the law don't seem to understand the law. Worse still, now that they've made a mistake , they don't seem to be too keen to admit it. God knows how many people have had points applied to their licence due to the total incompetence of these people, people who have the ability to inflict potentially life changing circumstances on you. They are obviously aware that they made a mistake yet didn't try to contact my work colleague to resolve it at all. There's likely hundreds of other times this has happened around the country too.

So people, get a speeding fine in an area with roadworks from now on and you know want to do. Otherwise you could be paying blank cheque tax instead.

Shane Fitz

Saab Ed wrote: »

If you have then you'd better read this.

A work colleague received a fine and notice of penalty points for speeding on the M3 a couple of months ago. It was just as it passes the old Quinn building where they were doing roadworks and temporary speed limit signs had been put in place. The normal limit there was 100 kph but during the roadworks a sign suggested it was dropped to 60. My colleague received a notice saying he was doing 83 in a 60 zone. Job done so you think! Well .....

When he told me this I suggested that he question had a new by-law been enacted so that the new limit was enforceable. He didn't question it but by coincidence one of his neighbours got a similar fine and did question the by-law. Wouldn't you know it , no by-law enacted. Basically all fines issued here during this time were total bull****. My colleague then contacted the lovely penalty points people and they've refunded his money plus they're going to rescind the points.

The moral here is the people supposed to be enforcing the law don't seem to understand the law. Worse still, now that they've made a mistake , they don't seem to be too keen to admit it. God knows how many people have had points applied to their licence due to the total incompetence of these people, people who have the ability to inflict potentially life changing circumstances on you. They are obviously aware that they made a mistake yet didn't try to contact my work colleague to resolve it at all. There's likely hundreds of other times this has happened around the country too.

So people, get a speeding fine in an area with roadworks from now on and you know want to do. Otherwise you could be paying blank cheque tax instead.

Similar happened to me, when they were finishing the port tunnel. Coming onto M 1 at Santry and got a notice that I had bee speeding. 6 weeks later got a letter saying that as no by law had been enacted the fine etc were withdrawn. Funny that my father and a friend, who were both done around same time didn't get hear anything.

Needless to say we redacted and copied my letter and they set to work clearing their records.

Saab Ed

There must/should be some law ensuring that speed traps cannot be set up in an area of a changed speed limit unless the people responsible have proof that the by-law has been enacted.

It seems at the moment that there's nothing stopping an opportune guard or speed camera van driver from just pulling into one of these zones and issuing fines Willy nilly. That's bizarre in my opinion. I really hope lots of people see this thread because I'd suspect its been going on for a long time, known about and nothing done to rectify the situation. That's before you mention the countless numbers driving around with unnecessary points, potentially risking higher insurance premiums (which could affect their livelihood) or even a ban.

Victor

Where is the Quinn building - is that the tall office building?

A bye-law isn't needed, only a road works speed limit order. The normal speed limits are 80km/h east of the Blanchardstown Centre and 100km/h west of it as far as the motorway, but there are different change over points for eastbound and westbound.

www.fingalcoco.ie/Files/Council/N3%20Interchange%2015.11.12.pdf‎

Road Works Speed Limit (No. 1) Order (N3 Mulhuddart Interchange Upgrade) 2012

Notice is hereby given that the County Manager, Fingal County Council in exercise of the powers vested in him under Section 10 of the Road Traffic Act, 2004 and in the interests of the road safety has made an order entitled Road Works Speed Limit (No.1) Order (N3 Mulhuddart Interchange Upgrade) 2012 to apply a Road Works Speed Limit of 60 km/h on N3 Navan Road eastbound carriageway between a point 220m northwest of the Snugborough Road/N3 Interchange and a point 496m northwest of Mulhuddart Interchange. The Road Works Speed Limit will be in effect from 19th November 2012 to 31st August 2013. Representations in relation to the Road Works Speed Limit Order may be made in writing to Mr. Michael Carroll, Administrative Officer, Operations, Fingal County Council, Grove Road, Blanchardstown, Dublin 15.

Mr. Michael Carroll,
Administrative Officer
Dated this 15th November 2012
Comhairle Contae Fhine Gall Fingal County Council

Saab Ed

Victor wrote: »

Where is the Quinn building - ist hat hte tall office building?

A bye-law isn't needed, only a road works speed limit order.

www.fingalcoco.ie/Files/Council/N3%20Interchange%2015.11.12.pdf‎;

Well this just gets all the more interesting. Any suggestions then as to why the fines were refunded and the points rescinded?

_Kaiser_

Fair play for highlighting this SE - that stretch around Blanch was always a bit of a mess speed-limit wise (though I think it's a bit better since they finished).

If I recall right, there was a thread a few days ago about someone getting a similar letter, and I remember reading here last year I think about a stretch of road in Louth that had been reclassified to 100 km/h and people who'd been done for being over 80 similarly had their points/fines wiped.

I fully agree with you - moral of the story here: always, always question our buys n girls in blue rather than take these things at face value. It's a common thing for you to get different answers/opinions from different Gardai, and we all know about the "it depends who you get" at a roadside stop as to what will happen.

I've posted (in the "here's what I reported to the Gardai thread") about 2 incidents I've had with them in recent-ish times where their attitude to the job and the responsibility it carries can only be described as disgraceful. I, and I'm sure most of us, could give many more similar stories - and I don't believe that anyone who paints the Gardai in a negative light must just be making it up, or have a chip on their shoulder either (despite the usual attempts to make it appear so). Sometimes if it quacks, it is a duck!

In my opinion we don't have a professional police force in this country as those who do take the job seriously and do good work are all too often overshadowed by the lazy, incompetent, disinterested Dirty Harry wannabe's (at all levels of the force). Sure look at what happened to the penalty points whisteblowers - sanctioned by the Commissioner and worse, their own colleagues for telling the truth.

AGS needs to be cleaned out from the ground-up if it's to become anything more than the jobs for all the family, old boys club, keystone cops brigade it currently is.

catastrophy

Saab Ed wrote: »

If you have then you'd better read this.

A work colleague received a fine and notice of penalty points for speeding on the M3 a couple of months ago. It was just as it passes the old Quinn building where they were doing roadworks and temporary speed limit signs had been put in place. The normal limit there was 100 kph but during the roadworks a sign suggested it was dropped to 60. My colleague received a notice saying he was doing 83 in a 60 zone. Job done so you think! Well .....

When he told me this I suggested that he question had a new by-law been enacted so that the new limit was enforceable. He didn't question it but by coincidence one of his neighbours got a similar fine and did question the by-law. Wouldn't you know it , no by-law enacted. Basically all fines issued here during this time were total bull****. My colleague then contacted the lovely penalty points people and they've refunded his money plus they're going to rescind the points.

The moral here is the people supposed to be enforcing the law don't seem to understand the law. Worse still, now that they've made a mistake , they don't seem to be too keen to admit it. God knows how many people have had points applied to their licence due to the total incompetence of these people, people who have the ability to inflict potentially life changing circumstances on you. They are obviously aware that they made a mistake yet didn't try to contact my work colleague to resolve it at all. There's likely hundreds of other times this has happened around the country too.

So people, get a speeding fine in an area with roadworks from now on and you know want to do. Otherwise you could be paying blank cheque tax instead.

Is this area a safety van location or was it a gatso van?

Jesus.

Brace yourself for the self-righteous, everything's black and white, perfect brigade OP.

"He shouldn't have been speeding in the first place blah blah blah"

No Pants

Was there a sign up that stated a limit of 60kph?

ted1

Same thing happened on the N11 a couple of years ago. There was plenty if media coverage I'm sure google will find the articles if you asked him nicely

Here's a article:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/red-light-for-speed-cases-after-judge-quizzes-limit-26380017.html

Hootanany

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057030513




Something is afoot with this issue?

Victor

Saab Ed wrote: »

Well this just gets all the more interesting. Any suggestions then as to why the fines were refunded and the points rescinded?

Possibly that it only applied eastbound

catastrophy wrote: »

Is this area a safety van location or was it a gaston van?

There used to be a speed enforcement zone further west at the end of the dual carriageway, but it seems to have been removed.

Saab Ed

Victor wrote: »

Possibly that it only applied eastbound




There used to be a speed enforcement zone further west at the end of the dual carriageway, but it seems to have been removed.

The all important question, how many people have been issued points incorrectly here and have they been informed of the wrong doing? I suspect not.

Shane Fitz

Just to highlight in my case it was an AGS Inspector, not sure if he was attached to Dublin Castle or the fines section.
In his letter to me, he stated what ever provision/by law hadn't been enacted to allow the enforcement of the lower limit.
Whether that's done by county managers or ranking AGS officer in the district I've no idea.

JustAddWater

Saab Ed wrote: »

God knows how many people have had points applied to their licence due to the total incompetence of these people, people who have the ability to inflict potentially life changing circumstances on you.

The irony in that paragraph is just crazy!

garhjw

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/speedlimit-blunder-sees-1306-drivers-get-points-struck-off-29563282.html

Casey_b

ALL speeding fines for the temporary roadworks on the outbound section (Western) of the M3 were invalid as Fingal Local Authority did not apply for a permit for this section of the road, they did have one for the inbound (Eastern) section of the road. The Garda Traffic Division in Dublin Castle misread the permit and inaccurately authorised speed traps on the Western part of the motorway. I got my April 18th fine squashed in May when I pointed out this error. The bottom line is always check the law before you pay up. I recommend the Attorney General's own website irishstatuebook.ie when checking any point of law. Cheers B Casey

Victor

Casey_b wrote: »

ALL speeding fines for the temporary roadworks on the outbound section (Western) of the M3 were invalid as Fingal Local Authority did not apply for a permit for this section of the road, they did have one for the inbound (Eastern) section of the road. The Garda Traffic Division in Dublin Castle misread the permit and inaccurately authorised speed traps on the Western part of the motorway. I got my April 18th fine squashed in May when I pointed out this error. The bottom line is always check the law before you pay up. I recommend the Attorney General's own website irishstatuebook.ie when checking any point of law. Cheers B Casey

If you checked irishstatuebook.ie you would realise that it is the N3 at that point.

The council management make the order, they don't apply for a permit.

And it was a matter of eastbound/westbound, not eastern/western.

Casey_b

The Council Management make an Speed Limit Order when the road is under control of the local authority, however when it is a National road, which the N3 is they need written approval from the National Roads Authority (Section 10(3) of the Road Traffic Act 2004) before they can change the speed limit downwards. URL is http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0044/sec0010.html#sec10
Cheers. BC