Psychology background Non law grad - best path?

Ilusa

Hi everyone,

I've graduated with a 1:1 degree in psychology, and currently doing a PhD at UCD in organisational/business psychology. I have a few questions and it'd be amazing if any of ye could help and advise on them.

1. I'm unsure of the best route into becoming a solicitor from here and any suggestions or even how to sell my background to gain a training contract or even paid/unpaid experience while I complete my PhD?

2. Education wise I'm considering four paths: (i) Just study for and sit the FE1s (ii) do the diploma in Law at DIT +the UCC LLB (iii) the diploma in Arbitration at UCD with law modules for non law grads (maybe + the UCC llb) or (iv) the diploma at the Kings Inn. Out of these options what would you reccomend for a career in law, and to secure experience? I'm really not sure what the best way to go forward is.

Bepolite

Just plough straight into the FE-1s IMHO. A good set of manuals should set you up reasonably well. You could approach firms about getting work experience, the majority of placements involve a lot of fairly menial admin work, some of it will give you some experience; note taking, transcription etc.

If you do decide to do a law degree sit your FE-1s as you study the subjects and sit your undergrad exams. Seems a bit of a waste of time though again only imho.

The only issue you are going to have is it's going to be tough enough to find training contract, not because of the degree path you've taken but just the economic situation. Why not do the Kings Inns Dip course and take up the hobby of being a barrister? :pac:

I see you've edited - Kings Inns = Barrister side, not to say you couldn't do the Dip course and then sit the FE-1s however.

My last point is consider carefully whether law is for you, it's not well paid (contrary to popular belief) and the solicitor role (again in my inexperienced view) seems like pretty much any other office job for the most part, albeit with a 'customer facing' element.

Ilusa

Thanks for the advice Bepolite, I appreciate it

When you touched on the economic situation that's kindof what I was wondering about, would a legal degree or dip make a trainneship easier to get onto into one of the major law firms in the current climate? or would the FE1s and my degrees be virtually just as good to a law firm?

My PhD involves training leadership and charisma (lawyers might even be a portion of the participants who I'll be upskilling) would that be of any benefit to mention in interviews? I also experience in a business consultancy firm involving leadship devlopment and organisational management. I know I'd be starting as an absolute newb but I guess I'm wondering would my potential as a trainer/management skills be considering as a future bonus or just not relevant at all at that point?

Are wages very poor? I was wondering this because I had read that on here before but my sister had this booklet produced by the government that listed common/usual salaries in an industry and being a solitictor was at the absolute top in terms of average wage, about 10-20k higher than medicine/psychology on average. Would a qualified solicitor with experience not rise to low six figures generally? Or do you not consider it well paid for the workload involved? (On a side note I am really interested in law regardless of the wage as long as it is comfortable to live off).

Thanks again!

Bepolite

Its very difficult to advise you becuase there aren't going to be that many people with your background. I'd personally just email some firms and ask the question; most will be happy to help. Furthermore I'm personally persuing the barrister route although my work experiance has been on the solicitor side.

My own anecdotal research indicates it's getting easier to get a trianing contract, but don't expect more than minimum wage. That said, get the right firm, that wants your skill-set, either here or more likely in England you will find yourself very comfortably off with the costs of your legal education taken care of.

Post Qualification (PQE) it's like anyother job, the money is there for some and some are being paid less than working in a call centre. Others would be better placed to advise you whether having a law degree would be advantageous. From my own point of view if you can do the FE1s you can probably get a First on on any law degree out there, so why bother? That said the degree might let you do the legal side of something more relevant to your field rather than trying to turn your skills to the legal profession. Not that a late conversion to law is something to be frowned upon, myself being in my mid-thirties.

I hope this is of some assistance. My main point would be don't do law for the money, for the most part it's a poorly paid profession in comparison to many others for a given level of effort.

NoQuarter

Don't go into law to try earn good money, that would be a mistake.

Ilusa

NoQuarter wrote: »

Don't go into law to try earn good money, that would be a mistake.

I have an interest in law but would also like a good wage are both of these things not usually possible post qualification?

NoQuarter

Ilusa wrote: »

I have an interest in law but would also like a good wage are both of these things not usually possible post qualification?

It is possible but it is usually the exception. As a solicitor you'd have to get into one of the top tier or large mid tier commercial firms really to make a good living. As a Barrister it's more hit and miss and will take at least 5 years.

My point is if anyone is thinking that they want a job with great money, dont think law is the way to go because it takes years and relatively few will make the big money.

Ilusa

Bepolite wrote: »

Its very difficult to advise you becuase there aren't going to be that many people with your background. I'd personally just email some firms and ask the question; most will be happy to help. Furthermore I'm personally persuing the barrister route although my work experiance has been on the solicitor side.

My own anecdotal research indicates it's getting easier to get a trianing contract, but don't expect more than minimum wage. That said, get the right firm, that wants your skill-set, either here or more likely in England you will find yourself very comfortably off with the costs of your legal education taken care of.

Post Qualification (PQE) it's like anyother job, the money is there for some and some are being paid less than working in a call centre. Others would be better placed to advise you whether having a law degree would be advantageous. From my own point of view if you can do the FE1s you can probably get a First on on any law degree out there, so why bother? That said the degree might let you do the legal side of something more relevant to your field rather than trying to turn your skills to the legal profession. Not that a late conversion to law is something to be frowned upon, myself being in my mid-thirties.

I hope this is of some assistance. My main point would be don't do law for the money, for the most part it's a poorly paid profession in comparison to many others for a given level of effort.

It is very helpful thanks! I guess it's not a usual path. A PhD lifestyle at least makes me used to living off a minimum wage (silver linning?). I think that's a great idea about contacting the firms would it be better to just email the general info contact address, or pick someone in a related as possible area in the firm to contact?

If I was trying to get work experience should I get a few of the FE1s done before applying or is that not even needed to get work experience?

camphor

What area of law do you think you can add value in? The fact of a Phd alone does not mean you can make money for a firm or make more money than any other qualified solicitor. What can you do better than any qualified solicitor?

Bepolite

Ilusa wrote: »

It is very helpful thanks! I guess it's not a usual path. A PhD lifestyle at least makes me used to living off a minimum wage (silver linning?). I think that's a great idea about contacting the firms would it be better to just email the general info contact address, or pick someone in a related as possible area in the firm to contact?

If I was trying to get work experience should I get a few of the FE1s done before applying or is that not even needed to get work experience?

Pop along to the Law School in UCD and see if they have some contacts they'd be willing to put you on to. Otherwise I'd just start sending a few e-mails with a bit of explanation. A thought that occurred to me is that you might find some-sort of qualification in Criminology interesting.

Think of an angle - Cahir O'Higgins for example, does some work for mental health charities, would you two have something to talk about? E-mail him and find out. I'd start reading through the manuals 'studying for the FE-1s' is pretty nebulous at the best of times. I can't see you being any more or less use than the average undergrad law student when it comes to the type of work you'll be doing. I'd approach it in pretty much the same way you've posted here, perhaps with a bit more direction of 'this is what I want to do' can you help me?

Camphor raises a good point in relation to what area do you want to go into? The profession is somewhat split between Criminal and Civil so that should be your starting point.

I would probably try and do some-sort of introduction law course, or perhaps approach UCD's mooting society. You do probably want to get some basics down first, for example, the difference between legislation, common law etc. All very straight forward to pick up, if a bit tougher to master.

Sorry this post is a little more rambling than my normal waffle.

Sala

I would get some experience along side the FE1s. My experience is that while the larger firms value excellent academics some of the smaller firms are more interested in experience in an office

johnnyskeleton

Bepolite wrote: »

Camphor raises a good point in relation to what area do you want to go into? The profession is somewhat split between Criminal and Civil so that should be your starting point.

Maybe the bigger divide is between lawyers who represent companies and lawyers who represent people.

Ilusa

camphor wrote: »

What area of law do you think you can add value in? The fact of a Phd alone does not mean you can make money for a firm or make more money than any other qualified solicitor. What can you do better than any qualified solicitor?

Hi Camphor thanks for your reply I wasn't exactly sure where I could make the best contribution since I have limited experience with law firms. I do think that perhaps mediation, health law might be areas my experience might benefit. I've often heard that business/law degrees are highly valued and I have completed MBA modules as part of my PhD, what special benefit do business/law grads offer over law alone maybe an focus I could stress on my CV, do you think it would be benefical?

Ilusa

Bepolite wrote: »

Pop along to the Law School in UCD and see if they have some contacts they'd be willing to put you on to. Otherwise I'd just start sending a few e-mails with a bit of explanation. A thought that occurred to me is that you might find some-sort of qualification in Criminology interesting.

Think of an angle - Cahir O'Higgins for example, does some work for mental health charities, would you two have something to talk about? E-mail him and find out. I'd start reading through the manuals 'studying for the FE-1s' is pretty nebulous at the best of times. I can't see you being any more or less use than the average undergrad law student when it comes to the type of work you'll be doing. I'd approach it in pretty much the same way you've posted here, perhaps with a bit more direction of 'this is what I want to do' can you help me?

Camphor raises a good point in relation to what area do you want to go into? The profession is somewhat split between Criminal and Civil so that should be your starting point.

I would probably try and do some-sort of introduction law course, or perhaps approach UCD's mooting society. You do probably want to get some basics down first, for example, the difference between legislation, common law etc. All very straight forward to pick up, if a bit tougher to master.

Sorry this post is a little more rambling than my normal waffle.

I think one man's waffle is another's gold haha. I did a distance learning introduction to law with University of London "English Common Law: Structure and Principles" is that the type of thing you mean or something more intensive? It's a pity the DIT grad dip is run during the day and not in evening/weekends otherwise that would have seemed perfect.

That's great to know that the solicitors don't mind being contacted like that, I would have been wary of irritating people higher up but I guess everyone starts somewhere and they did too orginally so I think it is the best way to go, cheers!

I'm going to look into the mooting society this week! I actually did a lot of debating when I was a bit younger so it sounds like an enjoyable way to get into law a bit more.

camphor

Ilusa wrote: »

I think one man's waffle is another's gold haha. I did a distance learning introduction to law with University of London "English Common Law: Structure and Principles" is that the type of thing you mean or something more intensive? It's a pity the DIT grad dip is run during the day and not in evening/weekends otherwise that would have seemed perfect.

That's great to know that the solicitors don't mind being contacted like that, I would have been wary of irritating people higher up but I guess everyone starts somewhere and they did too orginally so I think it is the best way to go, cheers!

I'm going to look into the mooting society this week! I actually did a lot of debating when I was a bit younger so it sounds like an enjoyable way to get into law a bit more.

The DIT course has a part time version, runs over 2 years. Used to run morning and evening in Rathmines years ago.